Heacox

We've just learned that our Council is consolidating with a neighboring council to make, what we feel, is a huge council geographically. We're so caught off guard that we aren't even sure what to ask or which way to go. Our council has 6200 members/314 units and the other has 18000 members/552 units. Our cub camp has already been sold; our boy scout camp is on the market or will be soon. Only one scout camp will remain for the entire new council, with a Cub World facility planned sometime in the future. Our council's scout shop will close, the satellite will close, and only one scout shop will remain (in the other council). This will cover about 14 counties, probably 1/3 of the state of SC. Justification seems to be that it is more efficient to operate a larger council; our council has had financial difficulties in the past few years but has a sizeable endowment, I believe. We feel like we're being "eaten by the giant." Previously, I'd often heard comments that the council we're in is too large, that it's too far for people to travel to day camp or to the scout shop. That problem will be worse now, for even more people. What are your comments?

We've just learned that our Council is consolidating with a neighboring council to make, what we feel, is a huge council geographically. We're so caught off guard that we aren't even sure what to ask or which way to go. Our council has 6200 members/314 units and the other has 18000 members/552 units. Our cub camp has already been sold; our boy scout camp is on the market or will be soon. Only one scout camp will remain for the entire new council, with a Cub World facility planned sometime in the future. Our council's scout shop will close, the satellite will close, and only one scout shop will remain (in the other council). This will cover about 14 counties, probably 1/3 of the state of SC. Justification seems to be that it is more efficient to operate a larger council; our council has had financial difficulties in the past few years but has a sizeable endowment, I believe. We feel like we're being "eaten by the giant." Previously, I'd often heard comments that the council we're in is too large, that it's too far for people to travel to day camp or to the scout shop. That problem will be worse now, for even more people. What are your comments?

I hear what you all are saying as it applies to unit fundraisers. But if my sons want to sell Christmas trees or any other product-KK donuts even-with the goal of making money to pay for Jamboree, can they say that they are selling trees/product "x" to earn money for BSA jamboree if they don't mention our troop/chartered org/council/etc.?

Our two sons (and ASM dad) are registered to go the 2005 National Jamboree. Can they do fundraising to help pay their way? Council has never done fundraising specifically for this and doesn't seem interested in offering advice. There are 5 boys in our Troop (including ours) registered for Jamboree, but the other 3 don't seem interested in fundraising either. Any suggestions on what we could do? Are there any limits on what we can do from a BSA policy standpoint?

What is BSA policy on completing merit badges that have been revised? My son took the Personal Mgmt MB in the Troop in Jan/Feb '04 and was given the worksheets available on non-BSA websites to submit showing he'd learned the material. Well, when he got the MB pamphlet, he realized that the requirements changed 1/04 apparently. I think he needs to do the new requirements, not the old worksheet. SM says the old stuff is ok. What's correct?

Now we're getting to some good nitty-gritty facts! Thanks so much, all of you!

Popcorn sales for the past two years were (from memory) maybe $17K and $10K. Prior to that, it was negligible. Church budget is in the millions. No where near a 10% ratio, I'd say.

Now, if we can only get a meeting with the appropriate parties; no luck so far.

I just confirmed that the Pack is definitely operating under a Federal Employer Identification Number (FEI) issued directly to our unit. We are NOT operating under the CO's FEI. We think the same is true of the Troop, but haven't confirmed that.

How does this affect the church's liability for us as it regards finances/IRS audit/etc.?

Our Pack checking account statement has always been mailed to the church, where it was addressed to our Pack. Statements were always given to us (unopened) by the children's ministry secretary; our COR is the children's minister). About 6-7 months ago, we called a new children's minister. He's done a great job of trying to learn how every program under his umbrella runs; he began opening the bank statements. I believe he mentioned to our church finance officer that their was a separate account with X dollars balance. The CFO was suprised and I believe that he asked the auditors what they thought about it. We met with the children's minister several months ago and thought things were ok to continue as is. Then this week we got the e-mail that the auditors were greatly distressed over these separate accounts and that the auditors will be writing a "letter of concern" to our church finance committee. Here's where we stand at the moment, trying to determine how best to proceed. We have requested a meeting; no response to our request that I know of.

This is one church, one set of auditors doing the annual church audit.

Does anyone know where I can find the orignal document from BSA National that would contain Suggested Unit Finance Procedures? I found something on a local council website that is really good; their Finance person says it came from a BSA National document but he doesn't remember which one.

The CO maintains a small line item within its budget for Scouting. We've usually used that for things like the Blue&Gold Banquet, mileage allotment for church buses on our trips, etc. This past fiscal year, the CO used it for something else (not Scouting); we were told it was "needed elsewhere."

The accounts the Pack/Troop have do not contain CO-contributed funds; these are entirely from popcorn/carwash/fundraising events and parent-paid program/camping/fees.

I understand that the CO owns the Pack/Troop. I don't think there is a large "rat" brewing as some suggest, but I do see the likely possibility that boy-earned monies will disappear once assimilated into the church budget. I am trained in accounting myself; I also worked for a non-profit about 20 years ago. I know how funds get shifted at the end of the fiscal year to make things look good (i.e., x dept has money left; y dept is short; let's transfer money and everybody's under-budget). I fully trust our CO not to do anything illegal but do have grave misgivings about the transfer of funds to another program.

To my knowledge, we are NOT using a 501©3 number on any purchases. However, I'm not sure exactly what that entails. I do know when we purchase goods for Scout use, we pay sales tax like anyone else. Whatever else is involved, please enlighten me briefly if you don't mind.

I can see some of their concerns from an accountability standpoint...just because there has never been a problem in the past doesn't mean there won't be one in the future. I don't think everything here is bad, but just wondered what the "standard practice" is out there as it pertains funds and chartering organizations. Is this extremely rare (to have the chartering org hold the purse strings) or is this common?

My fear is that the money our Scouts have earned will disappear to fund some other ministry of the church. Our token church budget line item this past year was allocated somewhere else within the other line items controlled by the particular pastor in charge of Scouting (it was spent on something else besides Scouting). We had no say-so or foreknowledge. Fortunately, we didn't need the money since we are basically "self-funded."

I guess my biggest question is "is this common or is this extremely unusual?"

Thanks for all the great responses.

Our Pack and Troop are having an on-going discussion with our chartering organization over where Scout-earned money, registrations and activity fees are to be deposited, and who will issue checks. For at least 5 years, the Pack and Troop have maintained separate checking accounts from our church, as all money is either from fund raising activities or paid by the Scout/parent for activites, etc. The chartering organization wants us to transfer all funds into the church account and give us a "line item" from which to spend. Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. By the way, there are no "problems" or improprieties that let to this; the church says that the auditors insist that all monies be in the church account. We have concerns that the money will be transfered for other uses if it is taken out of our hands. Advice, please!