goodkidsmom

I would like a friend who is a wonderful trumpeter - former British Army Band - to play at the Eagle COH. It could be some kind of moving solo somewhere in the program, or a traditional opener and closer - maybe something to go along with the color guard at the beginning and end? Even though I grew up in an Army family and heard all kinds of traditional music like this at reviews and ceremonies, I'm clueless about the music titles and the protocol of when to (or not to!) play what.

Can anyone suggest some trumpet calls, or ruffles and flourishes type of music? The National Anthem is about the only thing I can think of - that would be fine, but when would it be played? What about the end? I don't think Taps fits. I don't know about Ruffles and Flourishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

GKM

We're not trying to change anything. The Eagle Charge that we were planning to use included what appeared to be an extra "promise", so I was double-checking. It seems redundant to me too!

An Eagle Segment we're planning to include in an Eagle COH includes the following for the new Eagle to repeat:

"I realize my obligation -

to my fellow men, my home -

my country, and my God, -

I will at all times do my best -

to assist others -

to live with honor, loyalty, -

courage and service -

and to be a living example -

of the Scout Oath and Law -

to the best of my ability."

Is that another version of the Eagle Promise, or is there only ONE Eagle Promise, i.e. the one that starts with "I affirm my allegiance to the three promises of the scout Oath"

If the passage above is a different beastie, then I'm wondering if it's overkill for the new Eagle to repeat BOTH just a few minutes apart.

Thanks,

GKM

The plastic is definitely hard to sew through by hand, but the method of just grabbing a few of the "edgeing" threads from underneath (see my earlier post in this topic) is really easy - not complicated like it sounds.

The first time I had a batch of plastic-backed patches to deal with, I thought the plastic was iron-on stuff, so I ironed the patches and basically melted the plastic to the shirt. It stuck quite well, but when it came time to change patches, nothing would remove all the plastic!

Re removing the badge magic, another idea is goo gone - the stuff works really well.

Amazingly, my hand method doesn't take more time and patience than the machine, but probably LESS. With the machine I've got to thread it with the right color and make sure I've got a bobbin, pick out and pick out lots of small stitches if I goof.

By hand, though the method sounds complicated, there's no setup, and very few stitches per patch - maybe 8 on a merit badge - and if I mess up, it's a breeze to pull the thread out.

Scoutmom111 notes the problem with pocket patches, and her method sounds good. I don't like the look of the plastic sleeves to just stick the pocket patches in, but using just a plastic backing makes sense. If you're going to sew pocket patches, you can't use the machine unless you want to sew the pocket closed (which probably wouldn't matter to the Scout!). Try the very few hidden stitches method on pockets, when you can't use the machine.

GKM

I remember a few years back a bunch of posts about sewing on pockets - my favorite reply was to hand the boy a needle and thread. I've seen pretty sloppy results of this, but it IS his shirt/sash, and it shows responsibility. Why don't we make sewing one of the FIRST requirements for Tenderfoot?

I don't like sloppy patches, so here's what I do:

1. I always staple. As noted by others, it's easy to remove, change, reposition, no residue, etc.

2. I use the machine only when the fabric is flat - e.g. sash or above pocket. I use the same size needle for everything, and it's never broken, so my guess is that it's fairly medium sized. Sometimes I sew right through the patch's border, sometimes just inside of it. I haven't used clear thread in years - when I tried it ages ago, it tended to slip (too plastic-y) and/or get snagged in the machine. Maybe it's gotten better.

3. I almost always sew by hand, despite arthritis in thumbs, using an easy and nearly invisible (!) stitch suggested by a poster - Uncle Guinea (sp?) - years ago. Here's how:

a. Use a moderately sturdy long-ish needle and shirt-colored or sash-colored thread (it doesn't need to match the patch because it will not show)

b. Staple the patch with at least 2-3 staples so it won't shift

c. Knot the thread, and UNDER the patch about 1/4" or so in from the edge, take a stitch from the front of the fabric down through the back of the fabric, leaving the knot between patch and fabric.

d. Make a tiny stitch and come back up through the fabric ONLY

e. use the needle to grab a few threads from the BACK of the EDGE of the patch, parallel to the edge of the patch, pull through, and then go back down through the fabric.

f. Come back up ONLY through the fabric, very close to where you went down, i.e. with a tiny stitch.

g. BETWEEN the patch and the fabric, move a good distance - maybe a 1/2 " - and repeat e. and f. What you're doing is stitching through the back of the patch and taking tiny stitches through the fabric, but spacing them fairly well apart so you don't need too many (it won't gap)

h. when done, take a few tiny stitches under the edge of the patch, pulling the thread through them a few times so it knots, cut the thread, and poke any excess under the patch.

i. pry the staples off.

Now you have NO stitches on the front of the patch, TINY stitches on the back of the patch and through the shirt, and a relatively long space in between those tiny stitches, with all the thread hidden between the patch and the shirt.

Once I started doing it this way I stuck to it - it works great, and is easier to sit on my couch and do that than bothering with the machine.

GKM

GoodKid and another Scout have just completed their EBoRs, and neither wants much of a ceremony. Both boys would prefer a shared ECoH, and both sets of parents and the SM are comfortable with that.

It's a small troop and there really isn't a history in terms of troop ECoH traditions, in case that matters. Everyone seems pretty laid back and agreeable about the whole thing (!).

I've read some of the Pros and Cons here:

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0305/d-flin.html

and I could go either way, but since that's what the boys want, and since the parents are ok with it, that's likely what we'll do.

So, my questions are, what are the logistics? Do we go through everything for one boy at a time, then hit the punch and cookies? Or do we go back and forth? Or ??? What is shared and what is individual?

Do they both stand up there the whole time? Do we send out two invitations or one? ??? Does anyone know of some programs or scripts for shared ECoHs that we could look at for ideas?

Or is the whole idea a bad one???

thanks,

GKM

Remember GoodKid, who two years ago was dealing with a scoutmaster who was adding requirements, yelling, etc? (you can search for my old posts.)

I got a lot of advice from scouters on this site, and GoodKid left the troop and went to another. Several of you said to write back when he became an Eagle Scout, so I am - GoodKid is now an Eagle.

His new troop has been a great environment in which he's grown through service, outings and other activities, and leadership positions including SPL. I really appreciate everyone's help two years ago when he was in a difficult situation. And one more thing - the problemmatic Scoutmaster was replaced awhile after GoodKid left, because of parental complaints (not mine - obviously other parents also saw problems).

So, thanks for all the support when we were having problems, and Congrats to GoodKid!

GKM

Thanks for all the great advice and information - much appreciated!

GKM

Can anyone help with the following:

1) links to photos and journals from a troop's Bahamas Adventure

2) advice re clothes - would the lightweight "wicking" synthetic t-shirts and shorts be more comfortable than the usual cotton shorts and tees?

3) advice re sleeping bag, sheet, and/or fleece blanket during July - what's most appropriate? Is sleeping on the floor, or in some kind of bunk?

4) how much sunscreen is needed? Was there any kind that seemed to work well or not work?

5) type of hat - ballcap, bucket, aussie? Is it windy enough that one with a string is needed?

Leaving in a week - Any other advice?

Thanks,

GKM

SM's policy is that boys may not do required badges at camp. The rationale is that there isn't enough time to do them well so the boys wouldn't learn as much.

This criticism may be correct, but a) the MB programs/counselors are presumably approved by the council and b) shouldn't it be the boys' choice what badges to do? What do you think?

Regarding the Star and Life service project(s), our SM requires:

a) THREE projects

b) no one project will count for more than two hours

c) the projects must be for different types of beneficiaries - e.g. community, church, charity - but no two may be for the same type of beneficiary - e.g. community and public school are both considered to benefit the same community so only one will count.

I've looked at the Scout Handbook, the Boy Scout Requirements book, the Scoutmasters Handbook and the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, and do not find information to support any of these three requirements. The sources are inconsistent in whether they refer to "project" or "projects", but nowhere do they refer to three projects, to a maximum number of hours for each, or to a distribution of projects among different types of beneficiaries.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the info. He isn't allergic, but is just grossed out by the whole idea of fishing, seeing squirmy fish, and touching and cleaning fish. I read him your posts and he's perked up about going on the trip. I would LOVE to eat super-fresh red-snapper, and if he prefers to go for PBJs, it'll be his loss.

I really appreciate all the other info about the trip - I just wish I could go too!

GKM

How much fishing do the scouts do on the Bahamas Adventure? Do they have to kill, gut, cook, and eat their own fish the whole time? What about scouts who are really squeamish about this??

Thanks,

Goodkidsmom

Re duplicates - Our scout shop also sells duplicates with either the rank card or signed book.

Re iron-on - that sure would be nice! I mistook the plastic backing for iron-on backing on a Webelo patch; Ironing did make the patch stick, but I was never able to completely get the melted plastic off when he moved up to a scout and it was time to change patches.

You can get those at the scout store or in the scout catalog. I *think* they can only be used for the patch that goes on the right pocket though, the ones that he'll get for going on some outings.

Yikes, what a set of responses!

The rank requirements say "serve actively". GoodKid's old troop stopped signing off kids who were elected but did not do anything, i.e. did not serve actively.

When GoodKid was Librarian he had a rubber stamp made with the troop number and address, organized the jumble of books and stamped them all, downloaded a list of merit badges into a word processor, noted for each how many copies the troop had or whether the troop needed one, and passed it out to all the scouts. He started a sign-out sheet, but soon thereafter the job passed to another scout whom I think did nothing.

In GoodKid's new troop the troop Historian has made a scrapbook with the photos contributed by those who participated in troop events, working with another Scout's Mom who is into scrapbooking. He's done a great job with titles, backgrounds, etc, and has set an example for future Historians to follow.

If the kids are told that they are expected to "serve actively" and not signed off unless they do, there shouldn't be a problem.

GoodKidsMom

Thanks for all the responses - and Mark, I appreciate the full explanation.

One thing I still don't know is if and/or where the BSA directly addresses this.

GKM

FScouter: the MBC is the SM (Previous SM as GK switched troops), chosen because it seemed reasonable to choose the SM to do a MB with.

Proud Eagle: The talk was done after starting the badge, for the purpose of the badge, and by the scout's choice when reading over the requirements. GK had not discussed with the SM/MBC that he wanted to do it this way, he just went ahead and did it.

In this particular instance we pointed out over the course of several MB meetings that GK had already done 10c (talk) and that 10b(show) would be difficult to fit in our busy schedule, and eventually MBC signed off.

Hunt's examples sound good to me.

How about this one, for Coin Collecting:

"I know you already gave a talk about coin collecting at your school [10c], but I want you to go to a coin show with me [10b]. I'm the merit badge counselor and I'll decide what I will and will not approve."

That was GoodKid's experience (not for coin collecting, but the example is nearly identical) with a badge counselor with whom he'll never do another badge; when we checked with various troop adults including the SM and CC, the strong consensus was that this was the MB Counselor's prerogative.

Interesting perspective. I was thinking of a group of boys (troop or otherwise) doing the MB with fewer, not more, options, as it's easier for the group to all do the same thing together. (I realize "easier" isn't - or shouldn't be - the goal.) Examples include boys going en masse to "visit a....", or if a MB counselor uses worksheets for the boys to follow and fill in, listing only A and leaving out B, C, and D. I presume this more homogenized approach is the way MBs are done in summer camp.

A boy who might prefer B or C instead of A could be in an uncomfortable position with the MB Counselor, which is why I'd like to know if the BSA has published anything that clarifies who chooses.

I appreciate the clarifications and agree with all of the above. FScouter puts it especially succinctly! Unfortunately many of the SMs, ASMs, and MB Counselors around here strongly feel that it's the MB Counselor's choice, period. In some cases, as in a badge being worked on by the troop, it's hard to go to another MB Counselor. As I said, we aren't having any problems with this at present, (though we have in the past) but it'll be helpful to have your clarifications just in case........

GKM

They're directed at the Scout, who will be "doing". Is it ok for the MB counselor to insist or require that the Scout do, for example, 2A, if the book says for 2, do ONE of the following: A, B, C, D....? Can the MB counselor restrict the badge requirements to just 2A hence not giving the scout the option that is in the MB booklet? Is this addressed in any BSA publication?

If the MB requirements say to "do one" or "do two" of the following, who chooses? Is this up to the MB counselor, or can the boy choose what is of most interest to him or what seems the most feasible? Is this anywhere in print in BSA publications? (No current problems, thank goodness - just curious.)

Thanks,

GKM

As is clear from the posts above, it's relative. Pardon me for being grumpy here, but this one touches a sore spot because of the SM of our former troop. For GoodKid, about a dozen campouts (not a dozen nights, a dozen events) and participation in about a dozen service projects, all in a year (most in about 9 months), wasn't active, according to the SM. Most of those had been during the previous summer/fall and GoodKid had slowed down in the winter months (think school and homework and colds/flu), so SM said his recent participation wasn't enough. On the other hand the same SM considered far less than that to be active participation for a scout who had moved out of state months ago, and came back just for his SM Conf and BOR once the calendar said his time was up. Go figure.

GKM