FScouter

Our district has a poorly planned Round Table program, or I should say there is no program. Unless there is a training such as Safe Swim Defense or such, the program consists of swapping stories. Many times the Round Table leader cant make it to the meeting, and were on our own.

I want a preplanned program where there is a theme or particular topic that will be discussed. Topics Id like to see would be Troop Jr. Leader Training, Court of Honor ideas, how the committee really functions, money earning event dos and donts, PLC / boy-led ideas and methods. It would be great if we knew what the upcoming program was, so we could prepare for it.

Some of our district staff has a holier-than-thou attitude. It is a tight circle and tough to get into. It helps to have a military background; plain civilians have a tougher time. Frankly, I get more help and ideas from other Scoutmasters and leaders like myself than from the staff.

We get lots of new leaders that attend one or two times and then theyre never seen again. They want to know simple things like the rules for completing a tour permit. Every time that subject comes up we get different rules or exceptions to rules. Just this week for example, the RT commissioner stated in no uncertain terms that unless our boys were in class A uniforms while traveling to and from a campout, our tour permit would probably not be valid, and our troop and district insurance would not be in force!

Lately there has been a big push to get more unit commissioners. The goal is one commissioner for every three units. Right now there is one commissioner for about 30 units. My wife went through Wood Badge several months ago and has a ticket item to be a unit commissioner. But the district staff just cant seem to find even one troop to assign her to.

I travel about 25 miles one way, and miss about one roundtable each year. I go mainly to get the announcements and to talk to those people that are accessible. There are some very good Scouters that attend, and one on the staff and that is really the only draw for me.

I don't see any problem with properly recognizing each rank advancement with a separate Court of Honor. I do see a problem if we try to cut corners and kill two birds with one stone and combine two advancements in one ceremony. Is there anything wrong with encouraging the boy to finish 2nd Class, then work on the remaining 1st Class requirements?

I was not aware that there was a regulation concerning the frequency of Courts of Honor. Our troop policy is that Boards of Review are scheduled six times a year, approximately two months apart, each one followed one week later by a Court of Honor.

I don't look at a 2 month separation as denying the boy his rights, but rather granting him the opportunity to bask in the glory of his rank achievement and to proudly wear the badge. I don't think it is right to just blow off a rank advancement by skipping it. I want the kid to have all his rank advancements and all the recognition and Courts of Honor that goes with it.

And I totally agree with you about instant recognition. Ours is one of the few troops in the council that use the instant recongnition totem bead kits. In fact the council doesn't stock them any more and I had to order from North Carolina. Seems like there ought to be a regulation about Scout Shops carrying the necessary materials so we can do our jobs according to the regulations.

SCOUTER-Terry:

Could you please again clarify a bit about the proper content for the Issues & Politics forum? Is it intended for political and other issues only related to Scouting? Or is it intended more for issues not necessarily directly related to Scouting? Or is it

'any topic' as long as we don't stoop to insults?

OGE:

Hey ! You can be in a silly mood any time you want! Life is way more fun that way.

We're going to make real waterproof matches the good old fashioned way. And find some real waterproof pill bottles to put them in. But my mom would tan my hide if I used her double boiler to melt paraffin. Walmart is fine and I wouldn't want to spoil your retirement, but I would hazard a guess that 50 years from now the boys will remember the matches they made.

That spark generator sounds mean. Are you sure you don't need a license or anything? (Luckily I save all my old hack saw blades. You never know when they might come in handy, and sure enough, my wife is wrong again!)

The boys have used the steel wool and 9v battery method with some success. One kid is not so keen on it anymore after he put the battery in the same paper bag with the steel wool and dang near burned up the Klondike sled.

I'll have to check out that Mag light method. Mine doesn't exactly have a lens, but it does have a parabolic mirror that would seem to work if the tinder could be properly placed.

Have you tried the char cloth method, using a piece of chert or obsidian and soft steel?

By the way, we sang the "Boy Scout Sunday School" at our last two campouts. They were begging for more verses!

Life is good.

sctmom: An excellent choice, both for young men, and adults as well.

The PLC wants to do something different at the troop meeting and someone suggested to make waterproof matches. Does anyone have any experience at that?

I think a boy would be missing something if he earned two ranks at the same time. He needs to have some period of time to wear the badge and be proud of his accomplishment in one rank before moving on. I would encourage any boy heading in that direction to spend more time on the lower rank requirements before working on the higher ranks. In any case, I would schedule separate courts of honor for him.

Don't hat sizes run in the 7-9 range? I must have a fat head.

The old Sears catalog used to have several pages in the center of the book that described "How to Measure". Maybe some other men's catalog would have instructions.

BobWhite: I contend that the uniform policy you are quoting is very vague and must be interpreted by the members of the Board of Review.

Here are two fictitious examples of policies that are very specific:

When presenting himself at a Board of Review, a Scout must wear the official Scout shirt with insignia, the official Scout pants, the official Scout belt, the official Scout socks and the official Scout merit badge sash.

At the other extreme, but also very specific:

When presenting himself at a Board of Review, a Scout may wear any uniform part or parts, or any street clothes, at his option.

And then we have the vague official BSA policy:

wear as complete and correct a uniform as he can.

Vague policies MUST be interpreted. And if one unit interprets differently than another unit, that does not make one of them wrong.

BobWhite: Most of your points are well-taken, and I am in total agreement that we need to follow the official BSA policies and not bend them to suit our personal desires.

One case that you have mentioned repeatedly is that of what uniform is required for a Board of Review. The tone of your posts seems to indicate that it is the boy who may decide what uniform parts, if any, he will wear. And you have said that we are in violation of BSA policy to require otherwise.

You said the official BSA policy is that the boy must be "wearing as correct a uniform as he can". A policy like that is very general and not specific at all. One could interpret this to mean that a boy CAN go to the Scout Shop and he CAN buy the pants, and CAN buy the socks, and CAN buy all the rest of it too. One could argue that unless there is a good reason why the boy can NOT wear a correct uniform, then he needs to wear it. There may be lots of good reasons why a boy may not own all the correct uniform pieces. But when a boy has official uniform parts and chooses to not wear them, that would seem to be a violation of the policy.

Many of the BSA publications cover policies that are far from black & white and require some interpretation. My interpretation is that a troop rule that requires a boy to wear his uniform for a Board of Review is definitely not in violation of BSA policy. And reasonable interpretation of vague official policies does not constitute violation of those policies.

Perhaps you could help clarify how we Scouters can properly interpret vague official policies.

Here's a link to the actual resolution:

http://www.bsa.scouting.org/press/020206/resolution.html

Bob White: Your suggestions to encourage full uniforming are right on target.

Bobwhite: Perhaps the 30 second Board of Review example was a bit flippant. But I would hope the Board would not pass the boy regardless of how qualified he may otherwise be. Our troop policy is that the boy must wear his complete uniform, that is to say all the uniform parts that he owns, when presenting himself before the Board for review. All the boys know and accept this, and are counseled as such at the scoutmaster conference. What message do we send if we set a policy, and look the other way when a boy ignores the rule?

I shouldnt speak for our committee, but I believe they would counsel the boy and query him as to why he would choose to wear only part of his uniform. They would explain that the BOR is important, and that a proper uniform helps demonstrate respect for the BOR process, the committee members, his scoutmaster, and himself. They would then briefly go over the topics they had planned to discuss during the review. He would then be dismissed and encouraged to come back next month.

No, we would never refuse a Board of Review. But refusing to advance him and asking him to come back to try again is not cause for an appeal to Council. And it certainly is not punishment.

The lack of comment from the wise sages of this forum, such as Eisely, speaks volumes.

Rooster: Yes, nudging the fence-sitters is appropriate. I think what I was trying to get across was that continuously haranguing a merlyn is pointless. You are not particularly guilty of that, but collectively there has been a huge number of keystrokes expended. A merlyn won't change, and excessive energy in that direction diverts us from our primary Scouting mission.

The boy would get a 30 second Board of Review:

1. He did not receive advancement because he failed to wear his Scout pants and his butt crack demonstrates a poor Scout attitude.

2. He must specifically put his pants on prior to the next BOR.

3. Come back next month.

Rooster, I am one of those that have remained silent, not because I agree with those seeking to destroy Scouting, nor because I have been worn down. Rather, I have kept silent because I see no particular positive benefit to be gained from jumping into the melee.

A person has only so much mental energy. I would implore others to use their energies in positive outreach to the community. Write an article for your local newspaper about the good things your Troop has been doing. Participate in Scouting for Food. Do one more community service project. Build character. Teach traditional values. Deliver the promise. Those are the positive actions that will strengthen Scouting. Responding to the detractors of Scouting tit for tat is non-productive and pointless.

It is amazing how much energy has been expended in defending BSA ideals. Ideals that are far stronger than are the Merlyns of the world that would seek to destroy them. Continue our mission to "deliver the promise". Our success in doing so strengthens our institution far greater than attacks on our detractors.

If a kid owns a pair of official Scout pants but chooses to show up for a Board of Review wearing baggy shorts with his crack showing, I would have to say that he is NOT "wearing as correct a uniform as possible". I would be dismayed if the Board overlooked that and reviewed him anyway. And I'd be totally disheartend if the boy filed an appeal with the Council.

Our Scout Shop has never heard of a publication called "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America". It's not in the catalog either. Do you have a copy?

"The Cremation of Sam McGee" is a fun poem and perfect for a winter camp. Any of the Jack London short stories are good. "The Law of Life" would be good to illustrate what might happen to a straggler on the trail.

"To Build a Fire" is all about the importance of staying dry, and the difficulties of building a fire.

Anything in official BSA publications would be considered official policy. Refer to the Scout Handbook, Committee Guidebook, Insignia Guide, Scoutmaster Handbook, Guide to Training Jr. Leaders, etc. etc. etc. BSA has more publications than the IRS!

Wow! Have you been it Scouting continuously these last 80+ years?

Frankly, I don't believe that improvements in the quality, durability, and cost of the uniform would make much difference at all. Troops will continue to "do their own thing" because they like to be different and do their own thing. Personally, I love my uniform.

Like Weenender, I am working with the boy leaders and the PLC to do some of the legwork for outings. It's a tough go, but if the moms and dads won't help, maybe their sons will.