Fish

Sorry to beat a dead horse, I did not see any threads concerning this subject when I looked through the list. Perhaps I did not look back far enough.

Thank you for the answers, I appreciate your time...

A military person from the local VFW confronted one of my den leaders on Tuesday about the position of the U.S. Flag on the boys sleeves. He said that the BSA was incorrect by putting the flag on the right sleeve and that it should be on the left sleeve. Does the BSA have a reason for putting the flag on the right sleeve vs. the left? Does it matter?

BTW - The individual was quite irrate and actually upset the den leader who was more interested in providing her boys an excellent opportunity to be great citizens and be part of the flag ceremony at school on Veteran's Day.

SMT, it is my understanding that the new requirements are for new Webelos just entering the program. Your second-year boys who completed their stuff last year are "grandfathered in" under the old book and are not required to comply to the new requirements for Webelos. As for AOL, I guess it depends on when they start working on it. This year? I'd go with the new requirements. If they started working on it last year, I'd go with the old. At least that's the way we're proceeding here in our pack.

Thanks for the answer. I'll wear it proudly and wait with anticipation for a Webelos in our pack to ask what it is...

Fish

I am a Cubmaster for my younger boy's pack and very active in the Boy Scout troop where my older boy is Star. Much to my surprise, our troop elected me to OA and I completed the ordeal this spring. Being new to the OA, is it allowed to also wear the OA flap patch on my Cubmaster uniform? Currently I have a uniform that I wear as a committee member of the troop on which I wear my OA patch.

mama_bear,

I have seen every kind of imaginable den doodle over the years, but I think simple is better. A key is to make it so the den can take it to the pack meeting and be able to hang ribbons off it it (unless you also have a den flag).

My favorite den doodle is a dear antler with the leather lacing hanging off for each boy. The beads were from one of those bead seat covers you can get from NAPA auto parts and dipped in solid colors to denote the type of event. Blue for den meetings, gold for pack meetings and a specific color dependent on the event (ie half red/green for the den xmas party). The beads also had felt or craft foam cut outs on it to represent the type of den meeting or event. Also, you can put things like a piece of popcorn glued to it for turning in the popcorn form and all of the money.

Fish

ScoutMom - you suggest two good sites that I have just spiked several text portions for our leader book. That's what I'm talkin' about! I've used those sites before but didn't think of using themas a resource for this. We have already started piecing a book together and it looks like it will be about 20 pages and works together with our parent's handbook (very little duplication of material).

ScoutNut - a very good idea to separately meet with the den leaders by rank. I usually met with the new leaders all together but I like your approach better. More one-on-one and informal (bonding is important between CM/ACM and leaders so they feel comfortable asking any question)

From the sound of it so far I don't think anyone has done what I'm attempting. If it falls with a thud, so be it. I'll chalk it up to meaning well. I have used my time in far more friveless endeavors!

Thanks for everyone's help!

Fish

Mr White - Thank you for the detailed response! I don't expect this document to be from a BSA or council source. As you said, many of the things I want to pass on to the new leaders vary from pack to pack. I thought maybe someone from a pack out there might have built a pack-specific document to help new leaders transition from "I don't know anything" to "Oh, that's where that info is at" and "OK, our pack does it then or that way". I got some super ideas from the pack that provided me their pack-specific "parents handbook" (exactly like what you called the "orientation booklet"), I thought I could do the same for leaders.

One thing we may disagree on is that the recipe is simple. We have difficultly keeping first-time leaders focused on what's important the first month or two. They become overwelmed with the amount of information (all of the books, guides, meetings, training, and resources you mentioned)and they may give up or worse, do it their own way without regard to the BSA defined program. Regardless, the boys suffer. There is alot to absorb those first two months and it is difficult for most, especially those not familiar with cub scouts other than the occasional mention in the movies. If we can keep them focused initially on the most important things they need to know about our Pack and Cub Scouting, I think we'll have a more enthused, better den leader and provide the boys an excellent program right off the bat...

Fish

Mr. White and Twocubdad,

Thanks for your good ideas and I agree with all of them. Maybe the document I'm searching for doesn't exist out there. But if there were, would you agree it would be helpful and perhaps make a difference for the first few months when the den is at its highest risk?

I'm new at this and I guess I've omitted an important bit of info. I'm a current Cubmaster, a former den leader (Wolf-Webelos) and a current parent (Tiger-Webelos I) as well. I'm trying to make the parent and new leader experience the best it can be.

Late night Fish

Mr. White,

I guess I'm looking for a document that a new den leader can take home after School Night and read in an hour to get a general understanding about the road on which they are about to embark. Mostly it would be about the pack's structure, meeting/activity places, rules that overlay the BSA's policies and guidelines, fundraising methods, den supplies reimbursement, annual pack activities, pack meeting agenda, etc. These things are not covered in any training nor at roundtable.

The document would breifly touch on alot of subjects they will need to know about quickly, such as awards, uniforms (class A vs. class B), family camping, local tour permit, family's role in scouting, etc. It would also go through the den meeting with focus on what other resources will help in each area of the meeting.

I can not expect a brand new den leader to absorb the Cub Scout Leader Book to know what is really important to run their den the next week. As I have experienced, when I flop down the CSLB it creates a large thud sound in their volunteering enthusiasm! But on the otherhand, I don't feel comfortable just giving them "What is Cub Scouting?" and "Your First Den Meeting" and expect them to run the den. I don't expect this document to be a cookbook that I give them and leave. I want to give them something they can use as an initial leader book, a link to the CSLB. Something that condenses the pack's direction, CSLB and other ancilliary resources into a "primer" for our pack's new leaders. It will also serve as a refresher for our current leaders.

Bob, you were correct about my meaning of essentials/specific. Don't take my comment on the training as derrogatory. BSA's training is extremely important, well done and vital to the success of a new den leader. But it is very general because it has to be. Training will reinforce what the document has gone through and provide them with some "jazzing up".

We are in a very large rural district and our roundtable is OK but poorly attended and therefore is mostly concerned with the pack meeting material.

Sorry to be long winded but I thought maybe I didn't word my request very well. We have recently built a parent's handbook which is 31 pages long and it tries to answer many of the questions I had as a parent first coming into the pack (I will hand them out at School Night for Scouting). I stole the idea (and their WORD file!) from another pack and switched the pack information to ours. (I'm lazy!) I thought maybe the same type of thing could be out there for the new den leader.

Essentially I'm looking for a handbook to answer the many questions a new den leader would ask after they have left School Night, sat down in their recliner and say "What have I done!" I think it would be an important survival guide for the new leader from the pack they just said yes to... I think it can be done in around 30 pages as well, similar to our parent's handbook.

Am I all wet?

Fish

One more thing,

Packmaster is the best software on the market. I've used Scoutmate also but it doesn't even compare. Get your advancement/membership folks using it regularly.

Fish

You have received great advice. This has been useful to others starting in your position. I have a couple other quick tidbits that have changed our pack for the better:

1. Use your popcorn sales as your major fundraiser to fund not only your cub activities and recharter but also to provide your leaders with free resources and training.

2. We give our new leaders the cub scout leader book, academic & sports program guide, insignia guide, and access to guide to safe scouting, fun book, staging den and pack ceremonies, sparklers, etc. I personally meet with them and go over the material and run through what is expected from them as den leader.

3. Stress the "program helps" guide.

4. Communication - the newsletter is great. Hand out the calendar and hit the highlights at the pack meeting.

5. Hand out a "volunteer sign up list" at your 1st pack meeting. Fill it with large and SMALL things that need to be done. Some people want to help but don't have the time. The small jobs can lead them into bigger jobs later!

6. Also hand out a "call list" for volunteers. This list is again for people who want to help but can't fill a pack role. This list can be used if a job comes up and you can call to see if they can help on that particular job.

7. Put a fun activity in every pack meeting and keep them to a MAX of 1 hour.

Good luck!

Fish

CM

BSA's Cub Scout Leader Book (CSLB) is a daunting document for a new leader in a pack. Essential/Specific training is very general. Has anyone out there put together a 20-30 page summary of: what a den leader needs to know to start a successful den, pack general rules and guidelines, locations of pack activities, tips on providing a good program, resource lists, etc. I'd like a base document from which to change to our pack specifics. I'm looking for document not to replace the CSLB, but a layman's summary highlighting the important points a new den leader needs to know right off the bat so he/she will not regret their decision to volunteer... Any other ideas would be welcome!

Thanks for the link - I bookmarked it for future use - it's a good one! We'll definately use the astronaut info - very interesting! Thanks!

Thank you so much! I'll check out the BSA site too - thought I'd come to the experts first.

And who were/are they? I'd like to add this tidbit of info to a parent handbook we're putting together for our Cub Scout pack. THANKS!