The need for record-keeping software?

As you might know from other posts, I've recently become the CM of our Pack. Our outgoing CM didn't give me any records of what various scouts have earned so I don't really know who has what short of asking the scouts or DLs (some of whom are also new) or talking to the council or something...haven't figured that part out yet. To preempt anyone who advises me to "ask your advancement chair," we don't have one on our in-name-only commitee.

Anyhoo, I'd like to organize this from the ground-up somehow, so that at least when I pass things over to my replacement in a few years we'll have a good database.

I've been using the "Trax" spreadsheets at the Den level for several years and I like them a lot, but there is no "PackTrax" sheet. I'm aware of the Troopmaster software but I'm not sure we need that, let alone can justify spending our meager Pack budget on it.

For those who use some sort of computerized system, what do you use and what are the benefits?

Looks like Record Trax has a lot of what you want.

My pack (and troop) use Packmaster and Troopmaster.

The great thing is that they make really nice advancement reports so you don't have to manually fill out the 4403 advancement form. You can also transfer from one to the next.

Packmaster is $70 for the first three years. After that, it's $49.95 for renewal for three years.

Unfortunately RecordTrax only has room for 15 scouts. Though I suppose I could save a different sheet for each Den.(This message has been edited by gotta run)

We've just started using ScoutManage. We haven't been with it long enough to have a real opinion yet. I was sold due to the reports available. Using it's not quite as intuitive as I'd like, but it might grow on me.

I also used the Trax spreadsheets at the den level and loved that.

This is my 7th year of Cub Scout involvement and we've honestly never needed any historical advancement data, though. I guess the need could arise and in theory I like having it available. In actual practice I don't know that it will really matter.

Cub Scouts are not like Boy Scouts, historical info is not really all that important. While a Boy Scout needs to know the exact date he earned Tenderfoot, it does not matter to a Webelos when, or if, he earned the Tiger rank award. What matters in Cub Scouts is really the current year.

If you want a general idea of what each Scout has earned, ask the den leaders. If they are new and have no old den records, have them ask their Scouts, and look at their Scout's uniforms.

RecordTrax is intended to be a historical record for a den, not a Pack.

I really like ScoutManage for a Pack management system. I brought it into the Pack, and feel it is well worth it's cost, although as noted, it takes a bit of a learning curve to get used to. Once you get the historical info you are looking for from your den leaders, it is easy enough to enter it as past info. It is also very easy to designate exactly what kind of access everyone (including parents) has to what info.

I STRONGLY recommend recruiting a Pack Advancement person to handle coordinating award purchasing and distribution (which is made TONS easier using a program like ScoutManage!).

my recomendation is Scouttracks. The best reports and interface of any out their. I like it better than any of the Packmaster offerings. It actually list the requirements and you can then expand the requirement and see exactly what it is instead of merely checking off on 1a and not knowing what it is.

Plus any web browser gets you access, parents can enter their own scouts advancement, Data kept on the providers server, everyone can access the data.

I think it is the best cub software going.

I'd like to hear the advantages of having a Pack Advancement person. The only one I can think of is the obvious of having someone to run to the scout shop so I don't have to, but this is not an onerous task and I'm usually in there several times a month anyway.

I know, all the little things add up, but it just seems unnecesary to delegate this despite the fact that it is a "called for" position.

I think an Advancement Chair is important. We have a Pack of 50 - probably 35-40 pretty active - and prodding den leaders for the information and getting things organized seems to be a major job. I think it's something the Cub Master doesn't need on his plate. It also gives someone else the opportunity to get involved and serve. Just because you could handle it yourself, doesn't mean you should.

A Pack is not a one person show. The CM should not be doing more than his/her own job.

If you have a single den Pack of 5 Scouts, then the job could very well be as easy as simply "running to the scout shop" once very so often. However with a Pack of 30 Scouts, there are 5 den leaders to keep after, and depending on what your Pack pays for, and how it is done, anywhere from 30-100+ awards to sort thru, consolidate, list, purchase, and sort by boy, by den, into some imaginative container for each boy.

Our Advancement person was also in charge of coming up with a monthly awards ceremony, or theme. Baggies and a handshake is SOOOOOO BOOOOORING!

So, while you are doing all of that, and being den leader, when do you have time to put together a decent, fun, Pack Meeting program, especially if you are doing everything yourself?

Well, on one hand it still doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me and I also think I could spend as much time "organizing the organizer" as I do just sorting out badges each month. But on the other hand there's no downside to more parental involvement and maybe they could add some creative ideas. I'm curious about what other Packs do for badge presentation other than "hand the kid an envelope." (new topic thread #1: "What are your creative badge presentation ideas?").

I'm also curious as to how you effectively solicit volunteers. I've had good luck at the Den level but the strategies there don't necessarily translate into the Pack. Talent surveys? I know that the more specific the request, the more likely you are to get a reply...don't ask for an "advancement coordinator," ask for someone to handle a, b, and c. (new topic thread #2: "How do you get parents to volunteer for Pack roles?").

Y'all have to understand some background on our Pack as well. It was truly a one-man show for many, many years, with an in-name-only committee the composition of which I didn't even know until I was handed the complete pack roster when I took over the role. Democratizing the Pack has been a major priority but it takes time. Even identifying what duties to peel off takes time. And in the meantime, said duties need to get done to keep the pack functioning. So while having "someone else" handle advancement is now on my radar, it's probably not a high priority. My top priority is to the boys.

To answer some of your questions:

1. We have a pack of about 50 to 55 scouts, currently in 5 mostly excessively large dens. We use ScoutTrack to manage the calendar, advancement data and reports, email lists, den and pack roster, etc. The only real drawback to ScoutTrack is the lack of financial software and the need to maintain a separate website. However, the cost of ScoutTrack is extremely reasonable and as another poster stated, you can view the actual requirements and even give parents (or restrict access) to record acheivements.

2. If you have a decent size pack that is earning a lot of acheivements (belt lops and pins, patches for various activities, etc.) and very busy pack meetings, the zip lock bag may be necessary to limt the number of times you are bringing the same scouts up to receive awards. What we do for general acheivements/awards is have the den leader present the zip lock to the scout and announce everything they have earned that month. For rank advancement, religous medal recognition, and other major acheivements the scouts are brought up and presented the awards with some broef explanation of the award and why the scout is being recognized.

3. You can find some great advancement ceremonies that you can modify for your specific purpose in the monthly plan for pack meetings, the Meetings and Ceremonies book and on a million web sites.

4. I disagree with the post taht stated you only need the current year for cub scouts. This may be true if you do not want to know what belt loops and pins have already been earned so you do not have to present them again. Webelos is a two year program and many requirements build from others. If you have more than a couple of Weelos scouts, you'll never keep track of this.

I'm jumping into this post a little late, but...

As a part of my Wood Badge Ticket, I've created an Excel spreadsheet that does (in my humble opinion) a preety good job tracking a den's advancement from Tiger through Webelos, the ancillary/secondary awards the scouts can earn in each of these rank years and for the totality of the Belt Loops & Pins.

For Bears and Wolves, I've used the Trax format for Parent Status Sheets, that feed (autofill) from the data entered in the Den Status Master spreadsheet.

Parent Status Sheets for Webelos are in process.

If anyone would like to try them out, you are welcome to the spreadsheets. My only request is feedback - gentle feedback. The spreadsheets are set for Dens that meet once a month, but can be adapted to Dens that meet twice a month.

YIS,

Kerin

For everything that really needs to be maintained at the pack level, why not just use the Online Advancement, which is the way they are going for reporting to councils and national. The link is at MyScouting.org. If you can get it updated and correct, it will go a long way toward helping keep your boy's records straight.

(1) The experience we've had with Internet Advancement so far is that one user who thinks they know what they're doing can destroy every piece of data entered into the system. Some kind of backup system is needed.

(2) The same problem exists for the software packages put out by TroopMaster. We've seen that system crash and burn our Pack's data.

(3) Any good system has a redundant back-up for data losses.

(4) Not everywhere you go, can you get Internet access, nevermind have access to Internet Advancement.

(5) Because Murphy does rule and likes to remind us that he is the one in charge.

IMHO

TroopMaster is a great system and it does have backups. It is being highly encouraged throughout our district by our troop and a den who are currently using it.

You may not be in an area where you have internet access all of the time. But I can't think of too many places where my cell phone with 3G wouldn't be able to link up to TroopMaster if I absolutely had to have it. If push came to shove I think I could write down the necessary info and transcribe to TroopMaster at a later date.

Every form that you could ever need is on this system, not to mention that it can be used for reporting to councils or national.