Discipline

[Eamonn 61]

Looking back over the years!!

When I think about discipline, the truth is that I rarely have ever had to really discipline a Scout or a group of Scouts.

There was a nasty shop lifting spree in Ireland at one summer camp! Which wasn't nice. But other than that discipline really has never been an issue.

Sure there have been Scouts who have got upset and got into the odd fight, mainly pushing more than punching and when that has happened I have talked with the Lads involved and we have worked toward finding a less violent way of setting their differences.

A lot of times I have kinda seen what was brewing and found a way to prevent it. Of course there is no way I can be around all the time.

The two Lads that spring to mind when I think about "Fighters" are Andy and Doug McPhee two brothers who would fight each other at the drop of a hat. I talked with their parents about them and it seemed that was the way they were at home.

Most times it seems that when things seem to be getting out of hand a simple "Hey Guys!" is enough to defuse or settle things down.

The Scouts tell me I have a "Look" and they know when I'm less than happy.

As a rule if someone is doing something or not doing something? I tend to call them over to one side for a quick word.

I like to think that I like and care about the Scouts, they seem to sense this and I sense that they like and care about me!

At times I will make requests for them to do something or not do something and they seem happy to go along with my requests.

At times I have been very honest with a Scout and informed him that he is being a pest and I'd really like him to stop.

But the truth is that discipline has never really been a big problem.

Ea.

[kb6jra 10]

I think that one of the worst parts of our "job" as leaders is having to dish out discipline.

 

I'm really not worried about correcting a scout for making a mistake, or for simple odd errors in judgement, but what chaps my hide (I've been wanting to use that term for a while) is when I'm dealing with behaviors that start at home. Not the messy slob that won't pick up his dirty crunchy underwear in his tent, but the kid that bullies others and gets kudos from mom and dad for being a tough guy. And so begins my saga...

 

When my son and I joined the troop I'm in now, there were these two brothers. They were much bigger than the other kids, but they were also some of the youngest kids in the troop. They had been having behavior issues for a while before I arrived on the scene, and I was warned about them when I started taking a leadership role. The warnings weren't over the top, just "keep an eye on these two, if you don't mind".

 

One meeting the boys were playing a game during the meeting. These two, plus one other kid, ganged up on a boy and made numerous threats that they were going to kick his butt, and that if he told anyone he was going to get it twice as bad. The stupid thing was that they did this in front of others in the troop and in front of one adult. I was the CC at the time and the Scoutmaster was on vacation. It was left up to me to meter out punishment and deal with the issues.

 

I held a meeting between the kid who was threatened and the boys that did the threatening. Ultimately nothing good came of it since the boy who was threatened and his father both quit the troop that night and left scouting, and the parents of the boys that perpetrated the assault denied all involvement and even tried to place blame on the victim. It was a messy scene and one I'd never want to re-live.

 

When the SM came home, I talked to him and he told me of a previous agreement with the brothers...if they were involved in an incident again involving harming another scout that they would be asked to leave the troop. We had to have another meeting with them and thier parents and explain things again...

 

Fast foward a year.

 

While I'm at the 05 Jamboree, the troop goes to summer camp. The SPL for the trip is a boy that has served as SPL in the troop before and understands his responsibilities. He is a freind to these brothers and is in fact the other boy involved in the previous incidence noted above. During camp he asked one of the brothers to act as his ASPL, the 2nd brother didn't attend. Between the two of them, the SPL and the acting ASPL, they ran the troop like they were wise guys on the streets of flatbush. They broke every rule the troop had regarding bullying and improper interpersonal behavior...it was so bad that by the time they came back from summer camp, 10 of my youngest scouts called me and wanted to quit the troop.

 

When asked why the younger boys didn't complain to the adults, the answer was simple, one of the adults on the trip, and the one who fielded all of the complaints, was the father of the acting ASPL...when they complained, he just blew them off, or worse, told his son who did the complaining.

 

I had to interview all of the kids attending summer camp, and talk to all of the parents. At that point I knew what I had to do with the boy who had agreed to never touch another scout, he was asked to leave the troop. The other boy, the SPL, I asked to take 2 months off from the troop, resign his current position, and not take another leadership POR for 6 months (boys dreamed this one up, not me).

 

I took this to the committee, they approved it. The boy asked to leave did, but his brother and mother remained for a while, causing a lot of heartburn and nausea. The boy asked to take time off also left the troop, along with his 2 brothers and ASM father...

 

This was a heartbreaking time for the troop, but in the end we are a stronger unit with a better culture after the summer of '05.

 

Luckily this doesn't happen very often which is why I'm able to keep my youthful appearance.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, most long-time scouters develop some real expertise in this area, eh? They do what Eamonn describes - they have their antennae out, and they almost always catch things very early, where just a gentle nudge or a stern look is enough. That takes alertness, experience, and confidence, plus some well-developed "reputation" and relationships with the boys. And a while to learn.

 

Toughest is units where there's been adult transition, and yeh get some people who are new and are missin' some ingredients, and who also may not (yet) have developed "reputation" and positive relationships to build on.

 

Sometimes it's lack of confidence. These folks avoid confrontin' kids behaviors and let 'em continue, or try to deal with 'em later by creating "policy."

 

Sometimes it's lack of alertness. These folks honestly don't notice kids' non-verbal expressions, and so allow bullyin' and shenanigans to go on behind the scenes. Parents of "kids who can do no wrong" are here, too.

 

Sometimes it's lack of ability to relate to kids. These folks will come down as stern "by the book" disciplinarians, lots of rules and such, but miss the "positive reinforcement and care" half of the equation. What EagleDad calls da "no sticks in the fire" crowd.

 

If you're like KB6RJ and you come into a unit that's spent a Scout Generation (3 years) or two under a weaker leader or leader transition, the "cleanup" is tough, eh? Yeh usually have to draw the line somewhere and shoot someone, both because the behaviors are so bad and because you have to demonstrate to everyone that you're alert and confident. Then yeh have to spend time relatin' to kids, building up the new boys while lettin' the old ones finish up and leave. All that while, you build your reputation and put some relationship "money in the bank" for a rainy day later.

 

Tough stuff. Us old timers forget that most other adults really have no experience dealin' with groups of adolescent and teenage boys.

 

[Eamonn 61]

We at times talk about having a "Tool Box".

One tool I think we all need is a good memory!!

At times it's all too easy to come down like a ton of bricks.

While of course there are things that are just not acceptable and the bricks need to fall!!

Still trying to look at things through the eyes of the youth we serve and remembering that we at their age kinda, sorta were guilty of the same sins, does help keep things in perspective!

We all of course don't want to see anyone hurt or harmed.

Still it seems at times "Boys will be boys" is now looked upon as being a really bad thing!! The truth is that Boys will be boys and done right and managed right we can use this to our advantage. Sure at times this might involve a little more risk or a little more uncertainty.

As I have posted many times I'm not a great lover of rule books and am happy to fall back on the oath and law. But even this is a work in progress and under construction.

I wonder how many forum members can honestly put their hand on their hearts and claim that they were little angels who never messed up?

Ea.