district-level TLT?

[Lisabob 13]

A couple of summers ago, an SPL-to-be opted to attend NYLT. The NYLT program was very well done, the boy learned a lot (and had fun), and came back itching to put into practice some of what he had learned. He was the first boy from his troop to participate in NYLT.

 

Although the SM encouraged him to attend and the troop even paid most of the cost, in reality, the troop did not buy into or practice much of what was taught. It resulted in a year of frustration on both ends, because the two sides - SPL and adult leaders - now had very different ideas about how a troop ought to be organized, what boy-led means, how patrols should function, etc.

 

At the end of the year, the SPL decided to go find a different troop, partly because of this frustration(and partly for other reasons). Probably, some adult leaders were glad to see him go by that point. Unfortunately, it didn't leave a very good taste in anyone's mouths. I wonder whether that troop sent their next SPL to NYLT? I'm sort of doubting it.

 

I can easily imagine the same thing happening with some sort of district TLT. Every troop does some things in their own way, has their own spin on "boy led." Some troops might be flat-out wrong, but having a couple of their youth leaders attend a district TLT probably won't change that - it will simply result in confusion and tension. Troops should run their own TLTs so they can pass along their own version of "how it works." A Scoutmaster who isn't willing or interested in doing that should probably step aside, or at least find an ASM who can do it and who is on the same page as the SM in terms of what youth leadership looks like, for that particular troop.

 

(By the way, I'm not knocking NYLT. And my son, the SPL described above, really did learn a lot while having fun. But in terms of actually leading his troop, it just wasn't the direction his troop was going in at the time.)

 

 

[drmbear 10]

I ran a council-wide week long TLT back in the late 1970's for three years. I was the Senior Patrol Leader, we had as many as 80 boys attending, and it was actually boy-run. I selected and trained the staff and led the course during the week. It was the highlight of my Scouting experience.

 

Now after going through Wood Badge last spring and working my way through the NYLT course materials, I am absolutely certain that what we did back then is far superior than anything offered today - just my opinion. The White Stag training is the only thing I've found that is close (http://www.whitestag.org/). If I were to do a course, I would model it on this rather than the stuff they are doing now. I've read piles of books on leadership, personal development, and various success principles, and the stuff they are pushing now just disappoints me.

 

We worked the patrol method, we learned and practiced leadership skills, and we actually DID stuff. Most importantly, we exemplified the very best of what it means to be a Scout - the ideal. It was amazing seeing the transformation through the course of the week - when they showed up, they thought we were completely nuts, and they were far too cool to sing that loud and be that crazy, By the end of the week, they were exemplifying that ideal Scout spirit, perfect uniforms, marching by patrol in step, singing loudly and coming up with the most amazing skits and fun.

 

I saw these guys years later, in OA meetings and at other Scout activities. They still maintained that spirit and they really were leaders. I was invited to speak and be involved in several Eagle COH's. I really believe I made a difference, but it was the process more than it was me.

 

It's actually really fun right now getting to be a Cubmaster - right now I get to be the same kind of way I was back when I was a Senior Patrol Leader for those courses. The Wood Badge course I just went through doesn't even compare, and not a single element learned in that course has relevance in anything I'm doing in Scouting. But the things I learned over thirty years ago still is a major part of my life and I am using it now in the work I do in Scouting.

[BDPT00 41]

Let's not confuse TLT, JLT, JLTC, and NYLT (or NJLIC and NAYLE).

Some are/were meant for troops, and some for councils (and some national).

BDPT00

[Eagle92 110]

A few comments, with some rehashing.

 

1) Anyone who wants a copy of the old BROWNSEA 22 Syllabus, the council level course that Green Bar Bill wrote, and was prior to th council JLT and NYLT, PM me with your email as I have a copy. I love the course, especially since I'm a Cocky Curlew.

 

2)As I stated previously, my district as a youth did do the troop level TLT, or whatever it was called then, as a district. Some SMs were not doing it. The course was staffed by BA22 graduates, applying and teaching what they learned at BA22, and was well attended. I know my troop hosted it the year I went, and I want to say we had about 4-6 patrols worth of folks in attendance. Unfortunately I went the last year they did it. part of that I bet is b/c national did away with BA22 for JLTC, and for whatever reason JLT didn't catch on until 1994.

 

3) The district course was a day long course and did have hands on opportunties as well as "classes" We brought notebooks to take notes, I want to say we were told to bring a specific type, and I remember using that same notebook when I went to BA22 that summer.

 

4) If I was to do it today, I would use the current TLT syllabus so that the scouts will be familiar with the concepts presented as they will encoutner them again at NYLT. I would definately add activities and additional information,informing them that it's extra stuff that they will use.

[GKlose 24]

Since I'm the originator of this thread, I thought maybe I should post a followup.

 

In the original note, I mentioned that my Woodbadge SPL had asked me about a ticket item (which was to run a training weekend for our patrol leaders)...another friend, a soon-to-be SM, overheard us and said "our guys really need that too". The Woodbadge SPL, our district activities chair, asked me if I thought I could run something at the district level. I wasn't really looking for another project to add to my list, but brought up the idea on this forum, and then also thought about the concept quite a bit.

 

In my own troop's case, I ran a program in early October, and it was pretty much a success (I learned more about what works, and what didn't work, for our guys). Then again, our SM hasn't done any kind of training like that before, and had no plans to do anything before he stepped down (which is probably going to be this spring). Our future SM was fully involved in last October's weekend training, and is fully supportive of getting leadership of the troop back into the hands of our guys.

 

Side note here: I had much help in setting up this weekend, including from this forum, and especially from Bryan Spellman. He runs a weekend-long program for his youth leaders, twice a year.

 

As far as a district training event goes, I've pretty much figured out exactly what everyone here says...it is troop-specific, and would not be a very good one size fits all program. My own son attended a day-long TLT session given at our University of Scouting, and from his reports, that program also didn't work very well.

 

Another side note: the theme of the weekend that I organized last October was a series of challenges to our youth leaders. Some challenges were generic ("take back ownership of the annual calendar"), and some were specific ("run your patrols according to National Honor Patrol criteria"). In it, I had three challenges for the SPL, three challenges for PLs and three challenges for the PLC.

 

Because of timing -- and this was somewhat awkward -- the weekend was run for all Scouts wishing to be in a leadership position. Elections were held a few weeks later. The Scout elected as SPL was fully on-board with the challenges, and to date has far-surpassed anything that we could have hoped for. I had a discussion with the SM-to-be the other day that when this SPL term is up, our challenge will be to make sure the next SPL follows suit.

 

So what was once a 100% adult-led, troop-method, advancement-oriented troop now looks a lot closer to what a real troop should be. We still have progress to make, but I think we're safely in the realm of being able to mentor the PLs and the SPL and let them lead the changes they'd like to see.

 

Guy

[Eagle92 110]

GK,

 

Soudn like it's workign nicely. But why must the SPL only serve one term?

[GKlose 24]

Hi E92 -- we're not going to be limiting terms. In the past, the vote has usually taken care of the issue.

 

Up to now, our SPLs have served about a year, sometimes longer. And at this point, I can't really say when the troop will have the next elections, or if the present SPL will want to run again.

 

Since we're now in uncharted youth-led territory, we'll probably turn it over to the PLC and see what happens.

 

In any case, no matter when the next elections are, since we've got a great precedent being set by the present SPL, the challenge will be to have the next guy step up to the job like this guy has.

 

Guy

[Eagle92 110]

No problem.

[BDPT00 41]

I think the course you're referring to was called JLOW (Junior Leader Orientation Workshop), and yes, it was put on by the district. I happened to like it, but the issue was that Scoutmasters dropped their junior leaders off, and allowed someone else to train them. That's HIS job; not the district's.

BDPT00