Advancement Back Into Perspective

[Eamonn 61]

Is it just me or do we spent too much time on advancement?

Summer camp is in a lot of troops evaluated by the number of Merit Badges earned.

Some parents are looking at the "Eagle Scout Count" When it comes time for their son to move from pack to troop.

If this is the case and Advancement has got out of hand? What can we do to put things back in perspective?

Eamonn

[Fat Old Guy 11]

I would put the delays back into the system and say that you couldn't work on all TF, 2c and 1c simultanesously.

 

Then I'd change all Position of Responsibility requirements to at least one year.

 

[Bob White 20]

I know of nothing in the BSA program that measures unit quality by advancement other than one requirement of the Quality unit award requiring 50% of the troop to advance one rank in a charter year.

 

There is of course the promise in the Scout handbook that if a scout participates in the patrol and troop activities he should be able to advance to First Class in about one year. But I hardly see that as a bad thing or a difficult task if a unit is providing at least a basic program.

 

Eagle counting, merit badge factories, and the like, are artificial program elements designed and supported by individuals who do not follow the program. Advancement is designed by the BSA to be a by-product of an active program not the program itself.

 

I agree there are units that misuse and mis-apply the advancement program but I see no evidence that altering the program will give these units better leadership.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

[mk9750 11]

This is especially for Bob, but I'd sure like to hear other's comments as well.

 

Eamonn's description of advancement dominating some Troops' program is true, I am sure. But I don't think it is all Troops. I think plenty of Troops keep advancement in it's place: one of the Methods to attain the Aims of Scouting. But I do believe that for a very large majority of Troops the Merit Badge mill at summer camp is accurate. I say this knowing that this is accurate even for my Troop at least every other year.

 

So a few questions:

 

Is hunting Merit Badges at summer camp wrong?

 

Is it still wrong if some controls are set up to assure that boys are meeting the intended requirments?

 

If such a heavy concentration on Merit Badges is wrong, than what should / would / could replace the time that is now spent at summer camp, especially for boys who are 1st Class and higher?

 

As I have mentioned in the past, we alternate summer camps every year between a camp in PA that is highly MB oriented and a camp in Canada at which we develop and execute our own program, consisting of only 4 or five MB offerings. The rest is fun stuff and relaxation.

 

Both of these seem valuable to me. I love the fact that in Canada, our guys can spend one, two, three hours a day working on a MB if they want, instead of running from one class to another. I love that they play games and share in the comraderie of their buddies. I love that they spend time alone to contemplate all of those things that teenagers do. But I also think it is a great oppurtunity for these same guys to go to PA and have the chance to work on 3 or 4 or even 5 MBs at summer camp. They can do this because they aren't distracted by having to cook, because Aquatics is only 3 minutes from Pioneering, and because the camp has recruited and developed MB Counselors for 35 badges, instead of the 5 or 6 we can bring to camp.

 

So again, my questions are is this really wrong, and what would change if we decided to change it?

 

Mark

[Bob White 20]

I would agree that the merit badge programs at some camps, such as the one in our council, are out of whack with the goals and procedures of advancement. but I do not see that as a BSA created problem or a troop one, but a culture created by the individual summer camp.

 

I know that we are looking at how it is done here and looking to make major revisions. Our primary goal is to do more merit badge instructioon and less testing, unless we can do a quality, measuarable job, of individual testing.

 

This will of course upset some folks who have come to measure the quality of a summer camp by the number of MBs brought home, but that is a condition we allowed to be created as a council and so we will have to take the heat for it as we change.

 

Bob White

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I first noticed something was out of whack at a troop meeting a few weeks before summer camp, when my son was given a schedule to fill out for and met with an ASM to discuss what he should "take." It was confirmed when my son came home.

 

First of all, I don't remember things being so regimented when I went to summer camp as a youth. You got there and there was a schedule for merit badges, and you went to what you wanted to go to. I do see that there is a value to having a schedule in advance for purposes of staffing, but this seems to be a symptom of making summer camp into an advancement factory.

 

It must be understood that my son is 11 years old, having crossed over from Cub Scouting to Boy Scouting on or about April 1. At his first troop meeting he fulfilled the requirements for the Scout badge. So far so good. He has been gradually satisfying requirements for Tenderfoot and Second Class at troop meetings and the two weekend camping trips he has been on. As of summer camp, and including what he passed there, he is still Scout, but guess what? He has three merit badges, and is very close to a fourth (First Aid, no less.) That is where things start to seem backward to me.

 

At this summer camp, there was a "Dan Beard" program for Tenderfoot through First Class requirements. Fine, I thought. Let him go to that every day and hopefully there will be enough opportunity for the staff to work with him on his remaining items for Tenderfoot. However, at the scheduling meeting, while they did sign him up for Dan Beard, they also put him down for several merit badges. One of them was First Aid. I asked the ASM, but he first is going to do the First Aid requirements for Tenderfoot, 2C and 1C, right? Of course, says he.

 

When I pick him up from summer camp, I'm told that the advancement coordinator holds on to the blue cards and Dan Beard sheets and enters it into the computer at the first troop meeting of the school year, and from there it is all entered into the book. So we get to the first troop meeting, and I learn that he still has a few to go for Tenderfoot, although he is now halfway to second class. But he has earned the Leatherwork, Fingerprinting and Textiles merit badges. (The second of those seemed to me to be a somewhat "marginal" badge to earn at summer camp, this camp also offers Atomic Energy and Chemistry, so who knows.) And here's the kicker, the advancement coordinator says my son has a partial on First Aid, let's look at the card. He still needs one requirement, Number 1. What is number 1? "Satisfy your counselor that you have current knowledge of all first aid requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class ranks." Hello? What's wrong with this picture? Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense for someone to work with my son on the first aid requirement for the rank he is currently, actually going for? And then the next 2 ranks? As it is, he now has done everything he needs for an EAGLE REQUIRED merit badge except to show that he fulfilled the parts of the subject required for Tenderfoot, 2C and 1C.

 

Now, one might say, what is the role of NJCubScouter in all this? Well, as a father, my understanding is that I am supposed to have no role at all. As a troop committee member, my role in advancement overall is extremely limited. And what about NJCubScouter's son? Shouldn't he be taking a more active role in "managing" his own advancement? I sure think so. But he's 11, for crying out loud. Somewhere between the troop leadership (SM/ASMs) and the summer camp staff, someone (here's me tying this ramble back to this thread) is placing too much emphasis on merit badges.

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

How about going back to the old (read that as evil) system in which a Scout could not earn merit badges until he reached 1st class?

 

Maybe then summer camp for the new Scouts could concentrate on Scout stuff like hiking, swimming, fire building and general fun without the need to fuss about merit badges.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Advancement is one of the eight methods of scouting

 

1] Ideals

2] Patrols

3] Outdoors

4] Advancement

5] Adult Association

6] Personal Growth

7] Leadership Development

8] Uniform

 

The average non-scouting person on the street knows what an Eagle scout is, and what it means, but how many of the other 7 do you think they would get?

 

One of the things we the scouters could do is talk up the other seven points whether in the troop that we pay dues to whether to scouts or parents and in to the public, always talk about at least two other methods before talking about advancement. Lets not talk down advancement, but rather talk up the other methods,

 

[mk9750 11]

NJ,

 

Your post hit home a little with me.

 

Before the summer camp we do in PA, we also have a meeting with each of the Scouts to arrange a schedule for completing the badges on which they want to work. I spend some time counseling each Scout on what seems an appropriate badge, so that 11 year olds aren't working on lifesaving without having swimming, and 15 year olds challenge themselves with badges tougher than Basketry. But the real reason for this meeting is so I can write out blue cards for the guys to take to camp. this saves time for everyone at camp (actually, now the Scribe does this).

 

But during this meeting, I'll bet that I come off sounding as if I want guys to work on multiple badges. I encourage (actually, it is stronger than that) young guys to use Trail to 1st Class (your Dan Beard program), but somehow that always seems to fall by the wayside. I suspect that's because we will not sign a requirment off just because he went to class, we want him to come back and demonstrate what he learned first. When they hear that, I think they tend to steer themselves toward things they get more instant gratification for: MBs.

 

My point is that I think even people who diagree with the MB mill concept might work to enable it. I think in at least one way, I have done so. Now, what to do about it? I think the first thing is to voice your opinion about weak MB programs to your Council representatives. If they don't want to respond, vote with your feet. We did this about 12 years ago. Our local summer camp program was horrendous. After complaining vociferously for two years, our SM investigated other options and the Troop chose the alternate camp schedule we have now. Both are out of Council, and our Council is well aware of our reasons for not going to our own summer camp. They have improved the program over several years, and have asked us to send a contingent next year for a few days to check out the improvement. If the program they offer is better, we may move back there every other year. But it took being away for 12 years, along with other Troops doing the same thing, for them to realize they needed to improve.

 

Mark

[OutdoorThinker 10]

My understanding is that merit badges are outward representations of inward growth. I think the issue at hand is how much the scouts are learning from their merit badges, advancements and camping experiences and ultimately how much the scout is enjoying what he is learning, not how many badges he can rake in during a week of camp or how many eagles a troop has.