littlebillie 10 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 In November of 2000, University Elementary School(UES)of UCLA withdrew support and sponsorship for Cub Scout Pack 1, and told the boys (all UES students) that they would no longer be permitted to meet on campus or use school facilities. This action was taken specifically and explicitly as a result of the 'gay' issue. (Ironically, 2 of our kids were from a 2-dad family.) The Girl Scouts _still_ meet at UES. Now even though UCLA is a public facility and receives federal funds, its elementary school is a laboratory school sponsored by the university, so it sort of falls in that shadowland between private and public - even so, UCLA might face potential impact based on this decision, based on the Van Hilleary amendment to the new Educational Bill. Ironically, the only ones really getting hurt in this story were the boys themselves - more than a few tears were shed when the principal told them they could no longer be Cub Scouts at their school. But the BSA executive board? I don't even think they know about it, and the loss of 8 kids (we were a pretty small Pack at this point, not having been ALLOWED to have a membership drive for the two years BEFORE the big boot...) makes barely a ripple in the big pond of scouting! So when a school takes a stand - who REALLY gets hurt? The kids, first and foremost. But the BSA and UCLA will go on. The school - which as a sponsor potentially had a voice in the issue - chose to bow out of the whole thing, leaving the kids to pick up the pieces. Oh - and the GSUSA to continue on. WHY the schools would take action that really only hurts kids, I don't know. I just don't know... Link to post Share on other sites
BubbaBear 11 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 That's an interesting story littlebillie. I don't think that any of us know the answer. We used to be a country of "majority rules" but seem to have lost our ability to stand as a mojority for fear of lawsuit. What better way to teach our children how to get their way regardless of the good of the majority! One reason I decided to be a youth leader is to counteract this mentality. It is unfortunate that we must "play" the youth in this manner but let's face it; what the children learn to day is what the will lead tommorrow. I was dumbfounded to learn (as my thirteen year old did from her science teacher) that the ozone layer is being destroyed by cigarette smoke! She believes it! We have to take a stand for what is right. The children may have been hurt (and I do not condone that) but what they will ultimately learn is what you and the other Cub leaders make out of the overall picture. I cannot dictate what that will be, but I know what I hope it will be: United We Stand, Divided We Fall! What is it that you all believe the message should be? Link to post Share on other sites
scomman 10 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 My troop is fairly lucky in this matter. We are registered to a church so this didnt affect us much but it did affect another council in Iowa. In Iowa city the school district refused to allow the scouts to hold meetings on school property in because of this matter. The cool thing is the school district was told to deny "open" access to the scouts was a violation of state law and they were forced to rescind their decision because if they kicked the BSA out ALL groups had to leave the school. The day has come when a minority can contrl the public and it aint nice. We all need to take a stand and not let the other person fight the battle for us. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Actually bubba bear we haven't been a a country of majority rule. We are a republic not a democracy. We are a country ruled by elected representatives, and even they are not always elected by a majority. For that very reason troops are run by an elected council and not by majority rule of the troop. Not that I disagree with the fact that when adults don't play nice together, kids get short changed. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
BubbaBear 11 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I agree that it is time that we stand up for what is right, but what exactly is right? I know what I think is right but is it the same thing that you think? My belief is that we have to learn compromise when we can and stand firm when our beliefs are that strong. I stand firm with the decision to teach the children the morals and ethics I grew up with, in hopes that those standards will survive to a better future. SCOUT SALUTE! Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Did you find someone else to charter this pack and another place to meet? Don't let these boys lose out. Link to post Share on other sites
littlebillie 10 Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 sctmom, the few that had the heart to try and continue after this found another pack in the area - sponsored by a public school, no less. they still ask why their school thinks girls are better than boys... based on the continuing GSUSA presence. Sigh... Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 First of all, Girl Scouts aren't "chartered" by an organization. Also, Girl Scouts have a complete non-discrimination policy that BSA doesn't. Yet that will make no difference to the boys. I also hate to see the boys suffer. Cub Scouting is a lot of fun and good for the whole family. Our pack had sisters that were as active as most of the boys. Link to post Share on other sites
littlebillie 10 Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 sctmom - see, that's the part that confuses me. "Complete nondiscrimination". But at the website, they say "We believe that the motivating force in Girl Scouting is a spiritual one" and just leave it up to the individual to decide if they meet that requirement. Does that mean that an atheist is welcome? No spiritualism there, the way most folks discuss it... and of course the World Org recognizes "duty to God" in its Charter or Constitution somewhere - and the GSUSA is a member of that org. So I'm confused by the atheism thing. And have you been to this website: http://www.diversityingirlscouts.org/ ? It's a real eye-opener. These issues are part of why I occasinally raise an eyebrow when I hear about the GS non-discrimination policy. a policy de jure seems to be spiritual; a de facto policy seems to be a kid in a wheelchair. Now - I am NOT trying to take shots at the Girl Scouts. I just don't think their non-discrimination is as all-encompassing as I've been led to believe, based on such matters. Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Thanks for the website. I hope that those families get this settled to their advantage. Yes, GSUSA accepts atheists. Girl Scouts do not have religious requirements such as the ones that exists in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. From what I understand, they have very strict rules about even saying "grace" at meals. I'm sure there are the cases of people who make up a reason why an atheist or a disabled person or a homosexual can not be in Girl Scouts, but officially they have no policy banning it. I have also heard stories of kids and adults who had bogus accusations made about them to keep them out of Boy Scouts because of disabilities or disagreements with others, reasons that had no bearing on them being BSA members. I've personally seen the "we don't like the way Mr. X runs his den so we will discreetly push him out." Mr. X was running his den according to BSA rules, but had a personality conflict with other adults. The other adults convinced everyone to put their kid in another den and not include Mr. X or his kid in anything. Not discrimination, just part of human nature that is not so pretty. Link to post Share on other sites
littlebillie 10 Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 Could you tell me how the spiritual gets reconciled with the atheistic, and voluntary membership in an organization that calls for duty to God with knowing acceptance of atheists? This is not a glove in the face or anything - I just truly don't see how these are compatible? Link to post Share on other sites
littlebillie 10 Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 Hey, I really mean it - how does the GSUSA reconcile its own 'spiritual' statement, its membership in the World Org with its "duty to God" - and being atheist-friendly? It really seems like spin - "it's up to the individual" to decide on spirituality. I really WOULD like an explanation if anyone can provide it. I don't see that much difference between the GSUSA and BSA on the issue, based on this stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I am not in GSUSA and have not seen their membership form. What I have read is that it does not state the same thing the BSA membership form does -- "to be the best citizen you need to believe in God." GSUSA does not require a belief in God for membership. A girl can leave out the word "God". There are no rank requirements that say "explain duty to God". The BSA membership says you must believe in BSA's religious principles. Throughout Cub Scouts boys must meet certain requirements about understanding their religious faith. Link to post Share on other sites
littlebillie 10 Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 Girl Scouts say "... the motivating force in Girl Scouting is a spiritual one". Boy Scouts say it a little more strongly, but while using the word "God" do not preclude polytheistic scouts, such as Hindus. And both the BSA and the GSUSA belong to the World Org that acknowledges a "duty to God". So it really seems more like a spin difference than a real difference...? Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 GSUSA belongs to WAGGGS. BSA belongs to WOSM. Two different world organizations from what I understand. Link to post Share on other sites
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