50% or

[WestCoastScouter 10]

For a Den to earn the Summertime Pack Award, knots, and some other awards... there must be 50% partisipation, or completion of their badge, or 60% of boys moving into Webelos...

 

Now... like probably most Pack & Dens... there are some boys that are signed up, and never seen from again... and some boys that show up maybe every other month for a "fun" event.

 

For those non-partisipants - I dont think that its fair to include them in your percentage numbers. I had nine "registered boys" in my den, and two parents told me (after I called to encourage their attendence) that they were dropping out. That left me with Seven.

 

Another boy just showed up for PWD, and a Swim Day at the city pool... that's it. (again I called to encourage him to come).

 

So that left me with six boys that truly partisipated... of those remaining six, I had 4 that recieved their Bear rank.

 

Therefore... here is my question for discussion as I apply for my Den Leader Knot:

 

Is that 4 out of 9 ?

 

or 4 out of 7 ?

 

or 4 out of 6 ?

 

This issue is is relevent to other Pack awards that require partisipation... (ie. Quality Unit Award) do you include known drop outs in the stats ?

 

 

[ScoutNut 147]

It does not matter what YOU define as "truly participating". You had 9 boys registered in your Bear den at the beginning of the Bear year. The point of the BSA Den Leader Award is, what kind of Bear den leader were you to the ENTIRE den.

 

I don't know if your council actually checks out the facts behind the Den Leader Awards. However, if they do, they have access to how many boys are registered in your Pack as Bear level, how many Bear rank awards were purchased, and to how many boys were registered as Webelos.

 

If the two who informed you they were dropping out were taken off of the charter, then I think you can count your den number as 7 for most things.

 

For Quality Unit purposes the entire registered number of 9 should be used if that was the number as of 01/01/10. That is compared to the registered number as of 12/31/10.

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

if your an exact number kinda guy then 6 is your number.

 

 

But If you had most of the den and they had a great time then I wouldn't sweat it.

 

In the grand scheme of things nobody but you even remember or care in a couple of years.

[WestCoastScouter 10]

Thanks for imput..

 

Its just confusing when you're filing out performance questions, and how do you count people who have up and quit. I've been told that they stay on the charter till the new charter is completed... only then do they drop off...

 

But also that they are no longer on our internal roster of partisipating boys.

 

So thank you for your imput.

[Twocubdad 665]

The short answer is that your unit leaders who sign the form get to make the call. What ever they're willing to sign.

 

Personally, I would look at it in terms of when the boys dropped. If the first two dropped at the beginning of the year and were never active, I wouldn't count them against the average. That the third boy hung on, participated in a couple events, but didn't drop until late in the year, he probably counts.

 

I really don't like goals like this. You're really pushing a string up hill. What control do you have if a Scout's family gets transferred out of town, or his parents make him drop due to poor grades or conflict with church responsibilities. Den leaders need to be scored on the things they control, not thing outside their control.

[Twocubdad 665]

The short answer is that your unit leaders who sign the form get to make the call. What ever they're willing to sign.

 

Personally, I would look at it in terms of when the boys dropped. If the first two dropped at the beginning of the year and were never active, I wouldn't count them against the average. That the third boy hung on, participated in a couple events, but didn't drop until late in the year, he probably counts.

 

I really don't like goals like this. You're really pushing a string up hill. What control do you have if a Scout's family gets transferred out of town, or his parents make him drop due to poor grades or conflict with church responsibilities. Den leaders need to be scored on the things they control, not thing outside their control.

[Pack212Scouter 10]

Our Council is in the phase of really encouraging Packs to let people "try out" Cub Scouting. In other words, only charge them BSA dues for the first couple of months. I'm not necessarily a big fan of this, but with the encouraged "try and drop" approach, I now count percentage from the January recharter for Den Leader Award (we used to count the entire year) As for summertime activity, it would be a percentage of how many went into summer as part of the Pack with the intent of returning.

[Eagle92 110]

Pack,

I wish my council would let us do that. Instead the new folks pay for the one or two months left on the charter, plus the next year.

 

Good news is that folks are not hit with paying money within 3 months of joining. bad news is that the kids that drop after the first few meeting must be rechartered as the parents have paid for the year.

 

One way I've seen it done is how many kids are attending meetings and activities at cross over in May, and then how many show up in the fall.

 

I admit I lost a few from when I started. 1/2 of my group of split off to form their own den And out of the half that remained I lost 3.

[CPAMom 10]

I would say, "In your den" does not mean "in the pack." If they never came or only came 1 or 2 times after sign-ups, they were not "in your den."

 

 

[Snow_White 10]

Not sure I follow that line of thinking...

 

If they were "in the pack" but not "in your den", then which den would they be in?

[VigilEagle04 10]

Snow White, there may be multiple dens for the same level of Cub Scouts in a pack. When I was a Cub, all levels had two dens. Now, that pack has 3 Wolf dens, and 4 Tiger dens.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

[WestCoastScouter 10]

I think I know what snow white is saying...

 

We have two Wolf Dens... and we try to keep them even by number of partisipating scouts. It would be illogical to have one den with only 3 active and 3 drop out boys assigned to them, and another den with six active boys...

 

So I understand having them on the charter until the next re-charter period... but if they have clearly stated "We have quit" then take them off that Den's roster...

 

I mean... BSA is not that "exacting" that a cub scout whose parents have said "we quit" to be put into a den? Are they?

 

Are we that much sticklers that we have to put drop outs into a den ? Why not make a "On the charter - but dropped out" list... Call that list a "Den" if you really want...

 

Is that seem ok ?

[Snow_White 10]

Sorry for the confusion; I think WCS got what I was saying.

 

We also leave Cubs who have paid registered until the next re-charter, even if they tell us that they are dropping out. I'm not sure how that factors into the numbers at the den level for this type of thing, though.

 

I see the point that a den shouldn't be penalized (if that's the right word) for the non-participation of someone who has stated that they are dropping out, or signed up but never participated. On the other hand (and the point that I was trying to make earlier), is that I have never heard of a cub who is registered in the pack, but is not in any particular den. Not sure how I feel about the concept of a "den" made up of dropped scouts...

[WestCoastScouter 10]

I would agree that you dont' want to penalize a den.. the boys can earn the National Summer Den Award, and the Quality Den Ribbon due to a certain % of partisipation.. One den in our pack at twin boys, but mom moved 30 minutes away, and decided to drop out of scouting all together. (not transfer)

 

So those two boys are on our charter until Dec. 31st, 2010. But as to that Den... their names were taken off our "Roster" that is given to the parents and pack leaders.

 

Why is there a need to put a boy, who is completely gone from a pack, to be "placed" in a Den ?? They are on the charter, but not in a Den for purposes of being an partisipating member.

 

Now... again I say this only as to boys that have moved away, have actually said they quit...ect. This would not apply to occassional attending cub scouts.

 

Does anyone keep a boy in a Den's roster, even if he has moved away, or expressly said they are quiting? What is reasoning to do that ?