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le Voyageur

Extreme distance shooting range....

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It saddens me to see this thread going negative, but I will say that I hunt. I'm a meat hunter that lives in rural America, and we try to live as close to nature as possible. The reality is, in order for any of us to live, something must die, be it a plant or animal. As such,I elect to hunt, and not use a proxy to do it for me. During deer season, I keep a shotgun in my vehicle, not to hunt but to put down deer that have been injured or maimed by drivers who fail to slow down, leaving an animal along side the road injured and in pain. It's not something that I enjoy doing, but which has to be done; it leaves me angry at how callous and uncaring people can be that would leave an animal to die a slow death.

Often times in the field when hunting I'll come back empty handed, the reason is that I hunt black powder using a smooth bore musket. I have to stalk to within 40 yards or less to make a one shot kill. It's not easy.

None the less, I also know that there are parents out there who absolutly refuse to allow their sons, and or daughters to handle a firearm. It's there choice, and I can respect that. The only thing I ask, is for the same consideration for those of us who do hunt...

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Very nice on topic post le Voyegeur,

I applaud your sensitivity toward wounded animals.

Best of luck in providing for your family or in the ability to share your resources with others from animals that if they were unharvested might die of malnutrition, lack of resources, or disease brought on by overcrowding.

Conservation principles in vita.

YiS

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"...might die of malnutrition, lack of resources, or disease brought on by overcrowding"

This is a popular rationalization. I know of no hunters (and this certainly applied to me when I was hunting in the past) who, confronted with several specimens of prey, kill the sickest, weakliest-looking one. 'Meat hunters' are unlikely to intentionally select prey that are dying of disease.

In fact there is evidence that hunting can do exactly the opposite. One example, Coltman et al. (2003) found that after 30 years of hunting bighorn sheep, not only did the average horn length decrease significantly, the average body weight of rams also decreased significantly. Unless you can argue that this shift was of benefit to the herd somehow, that claim remains at best unsubstantiated.

Coltman, D.W., P. O'Donoghue, J.T. Jorgenson, J.T. Hogg, C. Strobeck, and M. Festa-Bianchet. 2003. Undesirable evolutionary consequences of trophy hunting. Nature. 426:655

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packsaddle,

Great argue with the Department of Conservation and their literature about hunting as population control and the reasons why they strive to keep the herd below a certain level.

 

I'm not getting drawn into that part of the topic as I am not a part of it(other than as a non-participant) IRL.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

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So, there used to be this Cable TV CHannel, Versus, mostly known for showing Hockey games but they had a significant amount of Hunting and Fishing programs as well. Well, on January 1 2012 Versus became the NBC SPorts Channel and while some Fishing TV shows are still on, the Hunting ones have really dwindled down.

 

I told you all that for this, I was watching Versus for awhile and their Hunting shows and many many times the host, The guy doing the hunting, would pass up a good looking animal because he said it was just to young and while it was a fine buck, a few more years and he would be an outstanding trophy. Now, me, I would have shot the animal but after hearing similar comments about making good decisions in the field and how Texas has been able to manage its Deer Herd to produce bigger and bigger deer maybe there is something to it. I dont know. I know if I spent thousands on a once in a lifetime hunt and had a beautiful 3 year old moose lined up for a shot and the guide said, naw, he is to young you should get an older one but couldnt guarantee that I would get an older one, I just don't know what I would do.

 

Somehow I think this is a much deeper issue than whether or not you can wear jeans with a Class A short or having a New Scout Patrol versus mixed ages Patrol

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"...might die of malnutrition, lack of resources, or disease brought on by overcrowding"

This is a popular rationalization.

 

I totally agree...just look at the Bison...million of them roamed North America ... seemed to be just fine. The Native American survived on them just fine ... everything was great till 'ole pale face arrived.

 

If you need to hunt/trap/fish to survive ... that's one thing ... if you want to teach what the OP wanted...you can use a bullseye.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

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But le Voyageur said in the original post that the reason for the extreme long range was to teach Venturers "...basics of hunting at extreme ranges"

 

Hunting is allowed in the Venturing Program

 

And as is the case with most of the BSA, you may either embrace the program or run screaming from it,

 

 

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Try going with the facts there E.

 

Any High School educated person should be able to talk about the mass extinction for hide, leaving meat to rot. In part for the sheer profit on the hides and in barely, masked if at all attempt to eradicate, control or remove the indigenous population by food pressure.

 

There was no attempt at Conservation until after the herds were nearly extinct, and they barely survived.

 

Moderators.

If this is going to be about the politics or ethics of hunting rather than the OP's intended direction which was the Marksmanship portion of how to get a Venturing crew spun up to become good hunters - doesn't it need a new topic - and if so given the Direction E seems to want to go maybe Issues and Politics?

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Attempt at an analogue:

A)I'm thinking about teaching a Venturing crew about Power generation, I'm thinking about starting with the skills they'll need to do so including building a power plant ,like welding.

 

B)No, we need to remove the Welding merit badge, because they boys may learn to be pipefitters and build steam power plants that will overwhelm the eco-system with their coal fired nastiness. And that would be evil.

 

C)But we aren't teaching them to build coal fired steam power plants. We're talking about Welding.

 

B)But they could and you are evil for wanting to teach them these things.

 

C)Hey I'm not evil, welding is a way for boys to not only learn the mechanics and theory of joining metal but of working under uncomfortable conditions and coordinating the motions of their hands, about safety systems for both electrical and Gas modalities. Not only that but unleashes the creative potential they may have that may discover the next great invention - maybe one that could get us off fossil fuels.

 

B)They could build coal fired power plants. Still not going to take back calling you evil.

 

Yeah I know it's juvenile but at this point I can't resist...(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

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The only thing I have to say is that Welding is not just for boys, you don't remember Jennifer Beals in "Flashdance"? Loved the water splash on the chair...

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Been looking at Google Earth to get an overview as to where the best area would be on the Reservation for such a range. The best sites are...

 

36 58 55.05N 80 36 57.78W

36 56 58.54N 80 38 37.66W

36 58 30.47N 80 38 24.92W

 

I'm preferring the first.

 

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Long range shooting are sniper fests....

 

I am a hunter, before kids I would harvest 7 deer a year and hunted upland game as the season permitted. Eat what I shot.

 

 

Look up prairie dog shoots or ground hog shoots.....It is killing for killing sake....

 

 

 

Nothing I want my scouts to be involved with, even though my son would love to hunt.

 

 

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Basement - see new thread - BSA and Hunting Good or Ill Fitting

Lets' get this one back on it's original topic.

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le Voyageur, not having been on the ground,

 

My issue for a range on site 1 is the limiting factors of being an east west orientation. It's hard to shoot into the sun and limits early morning or late afternoon depending on your choice of orientation.

 

Just from the view shown, and realizing it would be more work clearing your lanes, I'm liking site 3 with a north south orientation and what appears to be open land and a HUGE backstop. Would all of that possible beaten are be able to be reserved as an impact zone?

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