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OK, I'll try to steer this into the realm of ethics. This topic is ripe for the observation that on one hand there is the legal way...on the other there is the ethical way. An example:


Not too many years ago, it was legal for larger boats with marine heads to dump raw sewage directly into some (but not all) of our lakes and rivers. The legality of this continued until relatively recent times for some lakes because of the weird way EPA and state agencies interact to address interstate waters. So the practice was technically legal and many people acted under that authority. But was it right? I say 'no' for all the good reasons everyone has mentioned.


I think this ethic also applies to the trail. Like Beavah says, there are some places where 'pack it out' is the right thing to do whether or not it is legally required. THIS kind of ethic is what BSA could address more directly for the boys. And it carries less baggage than all that religion 'doody' we like to argue about so much. IMHO.


P.S. OGE, I'm on my way to lecture and I've got that d***** song stuck in my head. Thanks a whole lot!

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On a recent vacation to the British Virgin Islands last year, I was shocked that the yacht charter company told me that it was legal and proper to discharge the head overboard, just do it in the channel, not the anchorage. He then went on that us Yanks are just so wrapped up in our poop to deal with it realistically. He told me I'd be charged handsomely if I returned the yacht full of poop.


Now in US waters, I beleive the only legal discharge is 3 miles offshore. On a trip to Catalina, the park service had us put a dye tablet in the sewage hold to verify we weren't leaking or discharging at the anchorage.

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OGE, thanks for a wonderful tune there, hope the Grammy goes out to you... Also though, when I've heard about LNT before and poo, I've heard means of spreading out on rocks, etc. to provide for quick breakdown of it. I guess like everyone has said, best to check local requirements.

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Hey, DUD,


Here's a good way to carry them WAG BAGS around. Saw this at NOAC during the Trainer program. Go to the hardware and buy some PVC piping approximately 4-6 inches wide by 24 inches long. Have one end sealed and the other threaded and fitted with a screw on cap. Pop the cap and drop the bag. Then reseal the tube. The tube can either be carried inside or strapped to the outside of your pack. There's very little if any odor, except when opened. The tube weighs very little.


If you are packing it out, yes , send it up to the heavens in a bag for the night,(Definitely in a separate bag. Wouldn't want to grab the wrong fudge.) just like the food and dirty clothes, at least 200 feet (70 adult paces) from your campsite and from your kitchen.


If you cathole it, when you bury it, leave a little stick sticking out the top of the internment site. That way BEAV doesn't exhume the remains. Pull the sticks when you vacate the premises and hopefully no one knows you've been there.


If yours is a Crew and has females, definitely get the aforementioned book. It tells the opposites how to poo and pee in the woods without dribbling all over themselves, along with other feminine interests.



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Jeff Biddle was a long time Scouter from Juniata Valley Council.

A super nice fellow

Jeff was /is? a great story teller.

Strange thing was I was never sure how much if any? of what he was telling was ever true?

Many a night my sides hurt from laughing as Jeff told his tales.

Last I heard Jeff had taken up farming and was unable to devote the time to Scouting.

Anyway! A Biddle Story.

It seems along with the week long Council camp, Jeff's Troop spend a week at some remote, very hard to get to wilderness camp, which according to Jeff was less than primitive.

One day, one of the PL's came to Jeff and very proudly announced that he had perfected the art of pooping in a zip-lock bag.

Jeff agreed that this indeed was a great thing, bu asked the Lad how he got rid of it?

The Lad looked at Jeff as if he was a real idiot and informed Jeff that he burned it!

Jeff gave the Lad a puzzled look and said "Not on your patrol cooking fire I hope"

The Lad smiled and said "Don't be silly! not on our fire! On one of the other patrol's!"

Kinda gives a new meaning to the

"Who hath smelt wood-smoke at twilight? Who hath heard the birch-log burning?

Who is quick to read the noises of the night?"

(That used to be on the WB certificates).


It's from The Feet of the Young Men by Rudyard Kipling


NOW the Four-way Lodge is opened, now the Hunting Winds are loose

Now the Smokes of Spring go up to clear the brain;

Now the Young Mens hearts are troubled for the whisper of the Trues,

Now the Red Gods make their medicine again!

Who hath seen the beaver busied? Who hath watched the blacktail mating?

Who hath lain alone to hear the wild-goose cry?

Who hath worked the chosen water where the ouananiche is waiting,

Or the sea-trouts jumping-crazy for the fly?


He must gogogo away from here!

On the other side the world hes overdue.

Send your road is clear before you when the old Springfret comes oer you,

And the Red Gods call for you!

Now the Four-way Lodge is openednow the Smokes of Council rise

Pleasant smokes, ere yet twixt trail and trail they choose

Now the girths and ropes are tested: now they pack their last supplies:

Now our Young Men go to dance before the Trues!

Who shall meet them at those altarswho shall light them to that shrine?

Velvet-footed, who shall guide them to their goal?

Unto each the voice and vision: unto each his spoor and sign

Lonely mountain in the Northland, misty sweat-bath neath the Line

And to each a man that knows his naked soul!

White or yellow, black or copper, he is waiting, as a lover,

Smoke of funnel, dust of hooves, or beat of train

Where the high grass hides the horseman or the glaring flats discover

Where the steamer hails the landing, or the surf-boat brings the rover

Where the rails run out in sand-drift . . . Quick! ah, heave the camp-kit over,

For the Red Gods make their medicine again!

And we gogogo away from here!

On the other side the world were overdue!

Send the road is clear before you when the old Springfret comes oer you,

And the Red Gods call for you!


Old Rudyard may have had his faults, but for his time he had a knack of stirring excitement in the hearts of English schoolboys. - Well one anyway!



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SR540 Beav-- mistake your business for oatmeal? Man, you should eat a block of cheese before your next trip. Seriously though, some info for you folks. I work outdoors 10 hours a day switchin' out boxcars. We have no facilities sometimes and you gotta do what you gotta do when you gotta do it. Hence, local ALWAYS has a roll of the good stuff in his coat pocket. And since local is roving around on his feet all day, you remember where you did your business last. Well, daily. Gettin so I can't go inside. Anyways, I notice that the stuff just don't last long outdoors. A week tops, less if it rains. So I guess what I'm saying if it stayed around for long, we'd be knee-deep in it by now. And I'm also usually full of it!

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