BALOO: how prepared does it make a leader

[Laurie 10]

fotoscout typed:

As for Baloo, I'll repeat something I've said before; Baloo doesn't give you health and safety knowledge necessary to go into the woods with 5 boys or 50 boys. In fact I have to wonder if it provides a false sense of confidence to those people who should really not be leading a camping trip.

 

Fotoscout, could you elaborate please? We spent time going over hygiene, first aid, cooking among other things. There was a great deal of detail provided to us, but we were also given handouts that elaborated on what was presented. What would you like to see in BALOO that isn't there? To me it seemed pretty thorough, though I did sign up for a First Aid class after taking it and I did contact the trainer with some follow-up questions. TIA!

 

[Marty_Doyle 10]

Shortly after taking BALOO, I participated in WLOT (Webelos Leader Outdoor Training), followed by attending Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat, and then a basic First Aid course at the Red Cross.

In my council, there was more of an emphasis on the planning of an event, with some pratical detail, at BALOO, which was one 8 hour day. WLOT was a two day training event, with an overnight camp out in between. There was much more information about the practical realities of camping with Webelos (which would also apply to Packs) in the two day course.

I try to get the leaders to take both in tandem, because there is reptition of the planning/health & safety aspects and much more practical advice in that combination. Only the current Webelos leaders have done this.

I think that at a minimum, a basic first aid course, including child CPR, should also be required. Not as part of BALOO, but as supplemental training required before any adult leader takes the boys "into the woods". Something like Hug-A-Tree should also be incorporated, again as supplemental training, but required. Basic map and compass and/or GPS should also be offered. The leaders should know what to do if someone gets lost or injured. There should also be more of a "practicuum" on appropriate medical forms, local tour permits, etc. that may be necessary for campouts, that seemed to be glossed over.

The above may be overkill, since Cubs camp out in fairly defined areas, not deep back country, but it is best to "Be Prepared".

Just my .02.

[Zahnada 11]

I kind of agree with fotoscout that it might provide a false sense of confidence. But my feelings on this aren't BALOO specific. I doubt that any training course can fully prepare people for the job that we as adult leaders must do. Much of the learning should take place through gaining experience and observing others who have already accumulated experience.

 

Actually, since BALOO covers so many topics, none of them can be covered completely. But I can see a person leaving the training and feeling qualified to perform several tasks that they have only seen through flipcharts and handouts.

 

But, training is important and definitely builts the base for adults and youth to become leaders. Just always remember that the knowledge accumulated through a training course is always limited.

[Bob White 20]

Caution!

 

If you feel that knowledge of map and compass or GPS is needed for a Cub outdoor activity, then you are doing something WAY beyond the level of what you should be doing with Cub Scouts.

 

[Marty_Doyle 10]

I said, paraphrasing, some kind of basic first aid and something like the Hug-a-tree program should be offered and required. Map/compass/GPS should be offered for leaders, but may be overkill, given where our Cubs usually camp.

I don't think it would need to be required. But, one of my den leaders did get lost going from Westchester to Yankee Stadium (when we gave out fairly detailed maps and driving instructions, for a 25 mile essentially straight drive), so I would be a little concerned if he decided to take his den for a hike on the council's Scout Reservation. But that's just me.

And having the opportunity to learn a new skill is always a good thing, no? My impression of what Laurie asked was what else would one want to see in something like BALOO that may make a leader better prepared to lead a campout, at the Cub Scout level.

[Bob White 20]

And my point was Marty that a leader should not be taking cubs on back country hikes, even at scout camps, if there is any chance at all they might get lost. BALOO would emphasize that the BALOO trained individual is not the one that leads any activity but would the one to make sure that the activities were lead according to the Sweet 16 of Safety.

 

Certainly learning a new skill is a good think but that doesn't make it germane to Cub Scouting. BALOO doesn't teach the activity leader First-aid and isn't meant to. It teaches the need to have someone who IS first-aid trained on hand and the where to find the BSA safety regulations for a specific activity. It doesn't teach map and compass because that skill is inappropriate to cub scout pack activities. It doesn't teach tree huggy stuff like Leave No Trace because that is not the kind of camping a Pack should be doing. It does teach nature appreciation and to control littering.

 

Keep it simple, make it fun and safe. That is all that BALOO is designed for because that is all Family camp is meant to be.

[fotoscout 15]

Hi Laurie,

 

Big question! Let me start by paraphrasing something I wrote last year, perhaps in that same posting, Youve gone to BALOO, you know how to plan a campfire program, now youre off to Costco to buy a dancehall sized tent. Voila! Today you are a camper!

 

Baloo is training to plan the activities part of the trip. Baloo is not a camping class.

 

I can of course only talk about the Baloo that I took and it may not mirror the course that you took. We all know that many of the classes in BSA are presented somewhat differently. Nearly 80% of the instructional time in my class was spent on planning; planing the permission slip, planning the date, planning the food, planning the activities, planing the campfire, planning the transportation, planing the plan. Relatively little time was spent on camping issues.

 

First and foremost, First Aid! Baloo doesnt insure that you have the ability to administer first aid. You might have the first aid kit, but can you use it? Thats a rhetorical question, Im not looking for an answer.

 

Then there is the matter of your method of lighting and cooking. What are you going to suggest to your campers, and from what experience do you make that suggestion. Hey! Everyone bring a Coleman lantern, and bring your own barbecue too. Not in my group campsite!!!!, Too many things for the kids to get burnt on. Baloo didnt tell you how to manage this one and Baloo didn't bring it up as talking point. Are you prepared to tell DAD to put his brand new lantern away!

 

How about site selection? Council has a nice list of approved CS camping areas. Terrific! Now you have set up your tents. What did they tell you about setting up your tents. Do you have the knowledge or experience to recognize when a tent is not setup properly, or is setup in a dangerous location. Heres one that is going to sound really stupid, would you know to look up and down before pitching your tent? Did they tell you to be mindfull of you guy lines and tent stakes. It's too late to think about that after someone gets hurt.

 

Now youve set up camp. Arguably what is the most important piece of equipment youll want to have? How about that battery powered radio! Baloo didnt tell you that one. You would want to know it the weather is in for a big unexpected change. Remember this isnt Boy Scouts, this is young kids and their parents.

 

Here is a deadly serious issue, do you stick it out or run when the storm hits? Do you have the confidence to make that decision. Remember youre the leader, they draw strength from your confidence. Sure its easy to cut and run when it starts to drizzle, but if you do that, youve done everyone a disservice (thats my opinion).When do you make the call, young kids love to camp in the rain, but youre the leader, when do you make that call?

 

How about critters?? Are you comfortable dealing with that issue.

 

Did Baloo tell you how much rope to bring, or how many tarps or what size tarps.

 

You CANNOT think that because you took Baloo, you are now an experienced camper, ready to march into the woods with a dozen or more familys and have a successful experience. Baloo does not teach that!

 

So what is needed to have this type of campout. Baloo is fine, to a point. A conscientious leader would do everything in the Baloo program without ever attending Baloo. If youre organized and comprehend what it is to take a bunch of kids into the woods for a weekend, you will understand what has to be done as far as activities and planning. Many people are instinctively very good at this type of thing. But that is only one piece of the trip. You still need someone with camping experience, someone with experience in the outdoors. Baloo doesnt offer that. Does it need an SM with 30 years of experience? NO. But at a minimum I think it needs a leader, with some (?) number of years camping experience. Preferably, family camping experience.

 

The kids comfort level with camping will be derived from their own parents. One of your jobs is to make the parents feel comfortable. You can't do that if you're not comfortable. You need an experienced camper to make the trip successful.

 

BW nailed this one. CS camping is supposed to be fun. Hike on well marked trails, only! Look for animal tracks, fish in the lake, get wet if it rains, get dirty if it doesn't,fly a kite, make a tom-tom. But do it with someone who is expieraced and comfortable in the woods.

 

 

[Marty_Doyle 10]

Bob -

This is a theoretical exercise about what do we think could be added to a BALOO type course to avoid the false impression that "now you can camp" that someone might walk out of BALOO with. I've taken BALOO and thought it was very good in what it was supposed to impart. What Laurie asked in the initial post was what could be added that could improve a BALOO type course. And recall the original genesis of the thread - someome who took BALOO and thought it meant he (or she) could take a den camping.

There could be something in between BALOO and WLOT, that addresses many of the issues that fotoscout enumerates above. More of the planning aspects could be expanded in a revised BALOO by shifting the camping practical stuff to the new intermediate course.

This of course assumes leaders will attend, trainers will volunteer to traIin, a place will be available for training, etc.

And by the way, "Hug A Tree" is a course for chilren about what to do if they become separated from their group in the woods. The first thing the kids are taught is to stop, by hugging the biggest tree they can see, until they calm down. It was started in California by a family who's son got separated on a hike, but kept walking, away from the searchers, and eventually died from exposure.

[Laurie 10]

Fotoscout, I'm often accused of asking the big questions

 

There are excellent points offered by all, and Marty is right about my intent. What else do we need to know?

 

One thing is clear: BALOO offers different things depending upon the trainer. When I took it, it covered some different things than those fotoscout mentions. As we went through the material, here is the conclusion I reached upon completion of this particular training:

 

* I need a first aid course ASAP

* I need to be confident of my own camping skills first, so I need to get out and camp w/my family before taking the Cubs tent camping (amazing what just a little refresher can do)

* I need to think of the camping trip from the view of a young boy and then look hard at the site through "his" eyes

 

Training of any sort is an interesting thing, for every time I learn something it leads me to learn even more still. BALOO left me wanting more camping knowledge (current knowledge that is of boys and camping) and more training. Yet I highly recommend it for this very reason; it makes one think hard about planning and preparing.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Its Me 10]

 

 

I also agree with Bob White. If you are in a position where reading a compass or using GPS is the only way to get out, you are in way over your head with cubs.

 

If you know nothing about camping BALOO training is not going to make you an expert. Its focus was on youth protection, safety and planning.

 

 

[ScouterPaul 11]

I agree with its fotoscout. CS camping is supposed to fun and safe. I've not only taken the BALOO course I've also been on staff. BALOO does not make a participant an expert camper, only experience can do that. However, the course willvgive you a good start. As CM I attempt to get a new noncamping parent (Tiger or Wolf)BALOO trained every year so that they can gain experience slowly. The hope is that when their son(s) becomes a Webelo they become the Packs experienced campers.

 

BALOO in my humble opinion is an excellent course for any and all leaders.

 

Paul

[Marty_Doyle 10]

Ya know, amazingly enough, I agree with Bob, too. I am not advocating Cub Scouts going on long hikes deep in the woods on unmarked trails, where orienteering and compass skills are a necessity.

 

At our district Akela Calls camping event last year, I know of a Bear leader (from another pack in town) that had decided to take his boys on an early Sunday morning hike around the pond (to see ducks and other birds). He had bought a map of the Scout Reservation at the camp store, which had the trails marked.

 

You know what's coming. He didn't really know how to read a topo map. He didn't really know how to use a compass. He didn't know that different color tail blazes meant something. The den wandered onto the wrong trail (a more difficult one) and were "dis-oriented" for a short while. Every got back safely, and the boys just thought it was part of the hike.

 

Would BALOO have helped this leader? Maybe not.

When he talked about it afterwards, there was a lot of

"I didn't know....", or "I didn't realize...."

Maybe if he had attended some training that exposed him to some of these things, where he could realize his limitations, the experience could have been avoided.

Like fotoscout said, kost of my BALOO training revolved arounrd planning and health/safety, and not as much on things like planning hikes, which was coveered very quickly at the end of the day.

 

To a certain extent, we are talking about common sense, which you can't teach.

 

And, while I agree with the guidelines against map/compass activities for Cub Scouts, I have a problem with the dichotomy inherent in the offering of the Academic and Sports program "Map and Compass" belt loop and pin, available to Tigers through Webelos.

 

[evmori 11]

If BALOO is so generic, why isn't it just included in Cub Basic Leader Training? Does it need to be a separate course?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[fotoscout 15]

Marty,

 

Good point about WLOT, except that again it highlights that fact that many Councils do things differently. I did WLOT as a one day (a long day) program. It focused on the outdoor activities badge. We did have to bring a tent with us, and we did have to set it up, but camping was not really a part of what was taught.

 

Some of the chatter here about adding or combining course is nice to see, I also wonder about doing some of that. But what would you drop, or how many more hours would you add to a class. Im not sure if that would help or hinder us in the quest to get leaders trained.

 

[Marty_Doyle 10]

Ed -

Cub Scout leaders, in addition to YP, are supposed to take NLE (New Leader Essentials) and PS (Position Specific) Training to be considered "TRAINED". PST is really 5 different courses (Tiger Leader, Wolf/Bear Leader, Webelos Leader, Cubmaster and Committee). Together (NLE and PST), they are about 8 hours of training.

BALOO is supplemental, designed to train a person in the Pack leadership how to plan for Cub Scout age appropriate outdoor events (not just camping). It is fairly specific to the course objective, and usually runs around 7-8 hours. Very little of what is covered in BALOO is covered in NLE/PS, and when there is overlap, BALOO is more detailed.

WLOT is also supplemental, for Webelos den leaders (or Bear den leaders who plan to move up). This is supposed to show a Webelos den leader enough to allow him or her to take a Webelos den camping overnight. There is some overlap with what is covered in BALOO, on the planing, health/safety, sanitation, etc. issues, but much more hands on practical detail about actual camping. In our Council, it is about 15 hours, usually all day Saturday (8:30 am to 9pm), camp out Saturday night, and half day Sunday (done by noon).

You couldn't squeeze either BALOO or WLOT into NLE/PS without short changing the current course objectives.

My own personal opinion - there could be something in between BALOO (Introduction: Planning a Pack Outdoor Event) and WLOT (Advanced: Webelos Den Camping) that takes a little from each, and expands on some of the things fotoscout and I mentioned, to get Intermediate: Pack Camping. (I don't have a cute acronym for this yet.) Especially if there really is an emphasis on more outdoor activities for Cubs coming from National.