Doc Meyer

"Basement ... I'm sad you've had such a bad experience with your district. I question whether the bad situation is a two way street."

It's most definitely a two-way street. Some of the people here are so angry and bitter that it makes one wonder why on Earth they bother with the program.

Then they have the audacity to criticize anyone who dares to help them. I guess if I were an uncooperative, angry malcontent, my DE would stay away, too.(This message has been edited by Doc Meyer)(This message has been edited by Doc Meyer)

People who don't want awards secretly covet awards.

Yeah, local councils sure are touchy about petty things like following the Guide to Safe Scouting or actually registering members that are participating in your unit. The nerve!

But you're not doing anything wrong.

Allegedly trained leaders knowingly flaunt the camping guidelines, and then wonder why the council gives them so much grief. Stunning. Your actions undermine everyone who tries to do things the right way.

And before you tell more sad stories about how your district or council stinks, I stand by my comments from several months ago that there is likely more to the stories than you'll ever tell here.

Unless you have a great pre-existing relationship with an executive, any executive worth their salt should have prepared a written job description for any position offered.

My intent is not to get personal. I don't doubt there are problems, but logic tells me that there is more to the story. Basement has made some pretty blanket statements about his council without taking time to learn more. (Executives don't recruit volunteers, I do.)

I'm sorry he is having troubles, but I can't help thinking that he has ruffled feathers somewhere. If his executive staff is stringing him along, that is wrong on many levels.

I apologize if my comments were taken out of the context intended.

Or a school district decides that they can't affort the membership fees, and the council is unwilling to foot the bill.

But that doesn't fit your agenda.

Basement,

Instead of living in a bubble and dismissing my "arrogant" attitude as "rubbish," educate yourself how a District Key 3 is supposed to recruit key distric -- not unit-level -- volunteers. If all of your district's operating committee is filled, you wouldn't see your executive much at all -- the way it ought to be. Unfortunately, this is often not case.

I don't doubt your passion for Scouting, but your anger is misplaced, and I suspect is a partial cause for friction in your district and council. No matter how great an idea is, a district or council would never allow a malcontent to conduct an event or represent the organization.

Moose,

Referring to your District Pinewood Derby example, if I were an executive, I would be reluctant to schedule too many district events. Some people would have a district event every weekend it they could. At some point, units need to plan program, not districts. By councils and districts scheduling so many events, units are weakened.

Every council has their own philosophies about program. Just my hypothesis.

BadenP is right. There are plenty of bad executives, but most are pretty good and many are involved for the same reasons that volunteers give their time. They recognize the benefits of the program. Most employees aren't making the big bucks that most decry.

Proclaiming you spend more time Scouting than the paid staff makes you sound out of touch. Why should any member of your council staff hear your concerns if you can't keep things in perspective?

That said, I know there are plenty of people like you who make the best of out bad situations. Fight the good fight, but go about it in a positive way.

With some of the attitudes exhibited here, it's no wonder the executive staff ignores some of you.

If an executive is doing his job recruiting volunteers, you SHOULD never see him.

No SE would approve a Silver Beaver Award for an active professional. It's poor form for a DE to earn such awards.

At the closing Jamboree show a montage was played of notable Scouts. I was struck that most were from years gone by -- Hank Aaron, Neil Armstrong, Gerald Ford. It's telling that there are no contemporary figures to showcase.(This message has been edited by Doc Meyer)

Wow. This thread is scary.

Having a discussion with a parent is harmless and ought to be welcomed.

District Chairmen serve on the Council Executive Board to represent the interests of grassroots Scouters. Executive boards need to wield power and influence -- something many grassroots volunteers cannot generate.

Agree to disagree then. There is no reason why units can't schedule their own family camps. Again, if the district is providing all opportunities, there is no incentive to strengthen units.

I would suggest that the district does not want to over-program activities at the expense of unit program planning. It's harmful to have a monthly district activity for any program area.

Gary,

The fact is that there are too many zealots to have meaningful contributions to the BSA site. Look around this place. Training zealots have already permeated most elements of the BSA.

Camp school syllabbi have gotten a major re-write thanks to both executives and volunteer Scouters.

I don't blame the BSA for wanting to control methods of input from the field.

As a long time lurker here, I, too, am amazed at the hostility and misinformation.

I torture myself by reading how some of you "know" how much web hosting, or liability insurance, or employee compensation benefits (salary, benefits, payroll taxes) affect your council.

Unit contributions are not likely tax-deductable, but it depends on the chartered partnet since they "own" the unit. Consult your tax adviser, as they say. Despite theories, most professionals are not spending the bulk of their time raising money. Period. Doesn't happen.

Perhaps some councils are misleading their community, but FOS and camp or facility improvements are not directly related -- two separate funds. Operating surplus goes to the capital fund each year for improvements. If your United Way funding is dropped or the big company in town just laid off 1,000 workers, there goes your FOS goal. If you're not meeting your operating budget, you're not putting anything into the capital fund at the end of the year. No mowing and pools fall apart. A sad fact. If you think event fees sustain these properties, you are misguided.

Look around the non-profit world. No one is living high on the hog.

Finally, I have to wonder. Why would anyone return some of your phone calls? If you are so angry and bitter, find another organization to help. Question concerns when appropriate, but bellyaching about the size envelopes used for mailings is extreme.(This message has been edited by Doc Meyer)