darboy55

Well, it took awhile and the last post almost has it right. What can I say, it is NOT FAIR. The council would like to see every new scout obtain 1st class with in a year or so... give or take a few months... Take a new scout 11 years old... not much opportunity to swim, not much opportunity to conquer the fears they may have of water or maybe some physical limitations. I was in Cub scouts for 7 years, a ASM for 3 years and a SM now for just a few months and also a Unit Commissioner for almost a year. Worked with multiple Troops and even a Venturing Team. Been to Cubby Camps with boys just going into the second grade to Boy Scouts who are seniors in high school. Lets face it we are not all alike. Some swim like fish, some run like the wind, some can put 60lbs on their back and take a 10 mile walk at 8k feet and then there are a few that can maintain speeds of excess of 25mph on bike. And then there are those few that can do it all. God blessed them with the physical and mental capacities to live out the dream.

So let's get to it.... what to do... well you couch, you mentor, you encourage. This is boy lead organization, we use the buddy system, we use boy mentors whatever it takes to help out those that need help and as long as the spirit is alive and the desire to accomplish We as leaders should be there and encourage and reward. So lets do that. In one Troop which I was an ASM we did just that. We had a young man that was just deathly afraid of water. We worked with him just as stated above..... we did not hold him back from rank advancements. We gave him credit for what he could do and gave him additional physical challenges. And during a summer camp when he was 15 or 16 years old he jump in the water off a dock and we taught him to swim. WOW what a day that was for him and all those that were involved with getting him there. He did not do a 100 yards with specific strokes that needed to be mastered. We taught him how to tread water, stay calm, keep his head above the water and use safety equipment needed when he was in the water. Today this boy now enjoys water sports like water skiing and wake boarding, or taking a dip with his buddies. Can he swim a 100 yards yet? Nope, he can't.... but he can swim and knows how to use the safety equipment needed around the water. Thanks good enough for me, other adult leaders in the Troop and should be for the Boy Scouts of America. Let's put some common sense and options into the book of requirements. Long post but one last story.... I am a good swimmer... almost was a victim of drowning back about 30 years ago. Five years ago I was 95 miles off the coast of Mexico with by brother fishing Yellow Tail in a 22 foot boat. The life jacket that I had on was a auto inflate which I wore all the time. My brother told me not to bother to wear it saying that if I fell in, especially at night, I would be dead by the time he found me. I still wore... knowing how and when to use safety equipment around the water. Knowing and understanding your limitations is much more important than proving you can swim a 100 yards.

Demonstrate that your living..... what are you doing today is the question.......

Demonstrate that you live........ what have you done and what are you doing...

Yep no real difference... but when I review this with scouts I always ask past, present and future.... in other words... how have you, how do you and how will you... this is an opportunity to give a challenge to the scout to look back, look at the present and how can I be better... give it some thought...

See that this tread goes back aways and glad I did not read it before going to the camp....Our troop also just returned from MMSR.... 06/22-06/27... and like the last post we had rain every night, some with hale...Now will admitt that I don't a ton of experience at scout camps... been to just 6 in the last 3 years. Yep 2 a year for the most part.... MMSR is a good solid camp. Good facilities, good food, good staff. Yep there were rough edges so for those of you thinking about this camp please consider it one of your top choices. It is good getting better and to get better needs the support of scouting program. And scouts really had a good time which is really important....!!!!!!!

Will also make note here for those Troops in the Black Hills Area Council.... where is your support for this Scout Ranch? It is my understanding that through the summer of 2008 over 90% of the camp attendence is from out of council. It is also my understanding that the camp is staffed mostly by those from out of the council. (Support comes from within..... without it you will loose a good camp sooner or later.....)

However, will give all that are considering the camp and for those attending some advice... The key to a good camp is good communications with the staff and the director, ACE. And it should be noted that communication starts on the day you sign up for the camp not the day you sign in....this is very important....your expectations of the camp can not be meet or exceeded unless those responsible for your satisfaction with the camp fully understand your expectations. So make sure your talking before you start complaining.

Last item, Tiny used this phase, MMSR is a great tourist camp....hmmmmm I do agree... the scouts had a great experience at the camp with the program provided. In addition they had the opportunity to see the sights of America in the Black Hills which included a night blast at Crazy Horse, which only occurs 3 times a year. And if your are planning a pizza night with the boys on your day off seeing the sites would recommend PIZZA Works in Custer. Great Pizza and the owner is scouter friendly.... tell'em Dave sent you....

http://www.custerpizzaworks.com/

Hope this post provides the positive feedback is was meant to provide...

Happy Camping!!!!!!

My son has a 3xta, great tent...dry too, except when there is a user error..... which happens far to offen.. On our last camp out at Medician Mt Scout Ranch SD it rained every night...hard, sometimes with hale..... lots of fun.... stayed dry except for when they left the fly open...or sleep against the side of the tent....

Will make one comment on quality... the zippers are bad news, at least his is.... following next camp they will both be replaced... he has about 14 setups... in 3 years with four summer camps...

Frist of all many thanks to all that responded... it has been great feedback... from some of the responses there may be confusion due to the way I posted... I apologize.... to clarify some points.... + Only the scouts that went on the planned Troop/Patrol/Scout activity for the hike / ride are looking to obtain credit for the activity. ++ Those that otp'd out are doing the requiremts based on reviews and the agreeement between them and the MBC. Those scouts are NOT looking to have the those hikes / rides counted towards their Rank Advancement. +++ The MB's were offer to the whole troop, not all scouts are participanting, some already have the MB but the whole Troop was invited to all of the Troop/Patrol/Scout outings no matter if they aready had the MB or were not interesting in pursuing but just wanted to hike or ride with us. Hope this clarifies some of the information posted by me.. and again thanks for all the feedback.

Sorry for the post that first provided the subject of "Camper". It is my first post and did not fully understand. Will make every effort to ensure the quality of the post meets the standards of this forum.

Hmmmm found me .... gun ho parent.... been there done that and still doing it.... Asst Cub Master, Wolf Den Leader, Asst Scout Master, one troop and Committee Member for another. Been to Cub Training CM Specific, SM Specific, Outdoor, Den Chief, Baloo, would be going to WoodBadge this year but heck running out of cycles.... Have only been this involved for 3 years and one of those in Boy Scouting..... before that just a Webalos Den Leader for 2 of those years. ok, so I am a boy scout in 50 year old suite... but here are a lot of us out there and we are very frustrated when the troop does not use the patrol method and the leadership says it boy run... well not in my eyes...so here is the scoop.... if the troop my son belongs, which he made the choice to join, did have a Patrol Run program with SPL etc running the meetings, the outings etc and did so in a manner which meets BSA guidelines I would take my lounge chair to campouts and enjoy watching the kids growing up with peers providing the paths of growth with only the leaders providing guidance.... I would really like that, as long as it can be done in a efficient manner. I really hate wasting cycles through duplication. I put up with it but don't like it... So now what does a gun ho parent do when the senior leadership team does not communicate well with either the scouts or the parents, does not let the troop run through he SPL and ASPL and or the patrols method and makes the following statements "Don't worry, we will take care of it", or we will tell them when they / you need to know... Now these are a good bunch of folks and for the most part have BS Tan color for blood.... not a bad one in the bunch, except me, since I am the gun ho parent....

Good Evening... have the following question... see if I can stir up some opinions tonight....Have scouts that is going for first class.... they has been working on merit badges also.... hiking and cycling with other members of the troop.

There have been scheduled events with those that are working towards these merit badges within the troop. Two deep leadership has been present during the events and the events are treated like any other, permission slips and tour permits are secured when they are taken to specifics locations to hike or cycle. Some of the scouts have opt'd not to go on the scheduled events and have taken hikes or cycle rides required by the MB under the guidence of the MBC.

During all the events when leadership is present we conduct other normal scouting activities... identification of animals, plants, review of weather and personal fitness with requiring the correct foods and liquids etc.... normal type of stuff...... and also used in rank advancement.

Now here is the question.... do events which other troop members attend for which a requirements for a MB be completed and leadership is provided count toward the event requirement for first class rank advancement. The requirement number is #3.

"Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. "

By the way I have read just about everything I could to get a handle on this.... the boys feel the events should count as a troop / patrol activity... the senior leadership is not so willing to buy into it..... Therefore, if you find a reference in some handbook leadership or scout that provides an answer we no longer need opinions. But till then would appreciate your thoughts..... thanks in advance for your time.....