CRANEACE

Mokgamen: Thank you for your comments, it's been a while since this board has been active. I especially thank you for your comment indicating that there is no official statement on membership being "removed for life". As you read, the case with this young man is too often the case with others. In this case, however, no documentation was ever supplied to ANY scout officials, scoutmaster, committee chair, scout exec, regional or national appeal boards. No ducumentation ever was supplied, because it does not exist. This is a case of hastly "judgement" as you well put it. I feel sorry

Over the past 20+ years, most of the scouters I've ever known are LDS. Most of you are not . . . at least those who have posted here. Interesting that the LDS church is so dominant in "directing" scouting in many ways, yet they do not seem to be as "pro" scouting as many of the varied religious faiths represented here. So . . . to add some fuel to this campfire . . . . Where are all the LDS scouters? Is it the religion that drives you to scouts? Or is it scouting that drives you to the religion? Are LDS scouters as "pro" scouting as you all are? Or are they in scouting

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Some refer to us as the "Mormons". CRANEACE: While I may question the etiquette or relevance of your inquiry, I have no problem answering a direct question truthfully, directly and honestly. I consider turn about fair play. I have some questions of my own to ask you. Answers: Do you no longer consider yourself a Catholic? I am not active in any organized religion, but rather I participate with many friends in different religious activities. Are you affiliated with another organized religion

No antiBSA website. Thank you for pointing out that many of you have had nothing but good experiences in BSA. Others perhaps have not had the same. Just looking for a sampling, but I guess it was sort of thoughtless not to consider that most people on this forum would be pleased with their experiences. It was just a thought. There are plenty enough anti-BSA sites and I don't condone that either.

EVMORI THANK YOU!!!!AND AMEN!

Check out OGE's profile . . . . he gave himself the title!

OGE, At least one thing I'll give you . . . you are a self acclaimed know-it-all, making you no more than a know it all than anyone else. I've not read ALL of the threads and so yes, I must have missed that Merlyn has been asked to leave also . . . . how rude to ask someone to leave because they disagree with you . . . . and that goes for anyone else who tells someone to leave . . . how rude. . . If you don't want to respond to this or other threads no one is making you . . . just ignore them! I've said this before . . . Obviously my querries have pushed you out of your comfort

Okay, I'll respond to this one. I've been reading over many other threads and notice a constant battering of participants by each other . . . it is courious to me that some profess atheism and some profess Christianity, but each one seems to condem the other for their opinion. It is my querry as to what religious affiliation you are connected with to better understand the points of view. Most of us admit that our religious training and background (or not) influences our opinions and personalities for the rest of our lives, whether or not we stay active in that religion. It

What religious denomination do you connect yourself with?

Well, thank you all for critiquing our qualifications and motives. Just like a dysfunctional family you have attacked the one you don't agree with, rather than you leaving it alone. It is obviously okay for all of you to say and feel what you want about the presentation of this subject, while you believe it is not okay for us to present it. Your responses show how off task you all are since you have not addressed the subject, any one of you. You have just attacked the questioner. As stated above, if you have this type of info and you want to share, post it. . . if not . .. . mov

You don't have to "trust" me. Once you post it, the information is public. If you don't have anything to post regarding the subject then don't post anything. Obviously, you are not individual who we are seeking information from.

Not looking for witches. and I do know a Scout Exec who took a "donation" of $2500 and then signed off on an Eagle project that no board wanted to. No contempt . . . some bad experiences. I hear things on talk radio, have seen things posted here also, have had experiences with good and bad leadership, in BSA and elsewhere, which is pretty much the way life is . . . and no one said that research is foolproof . . . just research. . . if you have nothing of this type to post to this thread, then don't . . but please don't criticize if YOU don't know what's going on. That seems a little

OGE, More information was gathered from Irving. No that was not a "research" paper. As above, BSA is not the only organization we are looking at. . . . Bibliography . . . of course. IT is not the intention to descredit any BSA affiliate, just to gather information regarding reaql life situations that may appear "unfair" or "unreasonable", or such treatment that is even contrary to the organizations own policy. . . We will consider any items "allegations" and realize that we may not have all the facts. It sounds like you have something(s) to share.

I'm a little confused. Moral/immoral? If that is the issue, then would you ban a "straight" man or woman who has cheated on their spouse? Is that not "immoral?" whether it's the Military or BSA, would there be many mambers if you banned this group due to immorality?

Thanks for the advise. The topic is not isolated to BSA, just thought I'd use this communication to gather information. Research is being gathered on how large organizations including corporations and religious institutions, respond to allegations of and against their members and how they handle the outcome of their responses or verdicts as it may be . . .. Other organizations are being studied also . . . this one is my assignment. I'll look through the other threads also, but I hope that others will post something here too.

Is there anyone who is willing to share, omiting names of course, situations where BSA or BSA representatives have either misused their position, taken bribes to give out Eagles, removed scouts without just cause, or any other matter that seems discrimmatory, (one is allowed to do it but not another) unfair or unreasonable treatment toward scouts. I'm not talking about gay or agnostic issues. Information is needed for a research paper and will remain confidential.

Due process -- maybe it did happen? In one day from the hours of 10 am and 2 pm, to make this decision, could that really be due process? Too bad the BSA has to be "consistantly negative." or consitantly vague, or consistantly harsh. From what I have heard about other situations here today, I see that this scout is not the only one and because it happens all the time and thus is acceptable, it is even worse. BSA officials should hold themselves to the high standards expected of boys. Its also too bad that a leader cannot stand up and call the kettle black . . . obv

One would run for the door. One would run for the news reporter, Ont would think better of people who are running this organization, that is what makes ones' disapointment even greater when the facts are spilled. FOG - you refer to inner circle, some of us call it secret combination. One would think they would not want to participate in this hypocritcal organization.

Thank you, and yes, a phone call has already been placed. The last scoutmaster is mediating with national. But as stated by many in this forum, it happens all the time for no reason and one would suspect it will continue to happen to the unsuspecting or to those whose donation to BSA is not as great as Joe Blow next door. Interesting that so many have similar stories to tell. How do the Boy Scouts manage to keep this stuff quiet? Don't we call this discrimmination? It is realistic that BSA will decide and that's that.

Gay or not gay, sex outside the bonds of marriage is immoral. SEX, SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, not touching, not looking at pictures. I'm not condoning these behaviors either, but it is SEX and sexual orientation we are talking about and not curiosities, isn't it? Checkout FatOldGuy statement above and see why BSA should better define what it means by morally straight. . . . what it means by "does not meet membership criteria." Because they are not just ousting gay men, they are ousting curious little boys also, while they allow other men who have live-in girlfriends or who cheat on their wive

FOG - Thank you for your comments and openness about pointing out that most boys behave badly at that age and if that's why he can't have his Eagle, or even have membership in BSA, then BSA had better close their doors and send Scout Executives out looking for a "real" job.

Who, What, When, Where, How, and Why: The matter is not yet settled so ALL of those answers would not be accurate. Here's the scenario though. Age 12, scout makes a mistake . . . with a 12 year old girl, termed "innappropriate touching". Girl does not stop scout. Girl is not forced by scout. It does not happen at a scouting event. Girl does not report this until both are now age 14. It is a one time event. Both set of parents meet and guidelines are inacted including no sleepovers at the Scout's house. (Scout has a sister the same age who is friends with girl.) Scout is punishe

I thought that it was recinded for Ted Bundy . . . but that would be understandable.

It would be logical and ethical to "investigate" allegations on a scout prior to removing him from membership, but let's say he is removed without the benefit of an investigation, by allegation only. If/when he later re-enrolls in the same troop or another troop, his membership is accepted and he begins to earn merit badges. Time passes, let's say at least 2 years, and the scout is enrolled in a different troop where he earns his Eagle award. The original accusing person hears of this and contacts the national office bringing up the original uninvestigated allegations. Could the scout

Does this redinding happen often? What is the procedure? Certainly it would take more than a phone call. Should the parents be notified? Des the age of the Eagle Scout make a difference?