christineka

How may Webelos ? Are they I or II ?

This is LDS scouting. Webelos get one year total. There are 5 webelos from my pack. I have no idea how many in the other, though I'd guess a lot. I'm just glad that 1. I don't have to combine the 3 ranks together and 2. I won't be doing this alone any more.

If you remember me, I was struggling with figuring out how I was going to run den meetings for all three ranks together or get parent volunteers or something. I went off on vacation and just returned home today to cub scout news. Our pack is going to join a neighboring pack. (One that is flourishing.) I'm off the hook and all the boys will get a good program. It's a great situation.

 

Edit- Okay, heard from someone else I'm not off the hook completely, but I will be a Webelos' leader in addition to the other pack's leader and we will combined run webelos and only webelos. This is still a great situation- I will have real help!

More help is always better. Bringing parents in to help with programs and activity pins with which they have some level of expertise is a great idea.

 

But remember Webelos ain't Tigers. Don't let their help become "den leader of the month." Webelos is the first time boys begin to get a real feel for the small unit teamwork they'll hopefully experience in a Boy Scout patrol. Hopefully, your Webelos are experiencing Webelos resident camp and den camping with just their den leaders and each other -- not as a Cub Scout family camp. That's an important part of the transition to Boy Scouts.

 

If I were to write a plan for a "distributed leadership" den arrangement I would have the Webelos DL responsible for the outdoors program (den camping, summer camp, Outdoorsman and maybe a few other related pins) and the Webelos badge and Arrow of Light requirements. The other parents could do any of the other activity pins where they have some level of experience.

Our church does not allow boys this age to go camping with the den, though we were able to make webelos camp an exception, since it was just boy and parent. The reason why I am looking for help with webelos is because the webelos leaders have family issues going on and can't do their jobs. The outdoor boy scout activity will be on fire safety for the outdoorsman badge. All, but one boy attended webelos' camp and earned a ton of stuff there. Because of the way church scouting works, 2 boys have earned webelos already, 1 has been working on it, and 2 are brand new to webelos. It's a bit tricky in webelos. Not a big deal in Wolves and bears.

I'm thinking about asking parents to do webelos in fall. They'd only have to do once a month or less often. (5 webelos, but I think I can only count on parents of 3 boys) If they do webelos, is it correct that a registered leader, who has completed the youth protection stuff needs to be present? If so, how present? in the next room? In the same room, but other side? Trying to figure out how to multiply myself...

Good to come back to this. Home Depot finally got back to me about setting up a den meeting at the store, where the boys can come, learn about tools, and make something useful. I set it up for September. I was real happy, so I told the wolf leader. (The one who doesn't do anything other than show up with treats.) She responded with- "Can't we set it up earlier?" One wolf's birthday is this Thursday and he needs to do the tools achievement. (We are extending the deadline until the pack meeting immediately following his birthday and his mom is doing a lot. Unfortunately, the boy started late and the wolf leader never got around to explaining the program to the family. I did, when he had 3 months left.) He has to do similar woodworking stuff when he's a bear.

Basically it looks like Christineka has all the leadership she's required to have ON PAPER, but none really in person doing their job in person??!!

 

I would ask each parent if they could help with 1 meeting, even if all they do is stay for the meeting and hang out. with the LDS church's history within scouting, any dads that sign up most likely were cub scouts themselves and they may be more helpful than you think. For big jobs, ask parents does anyone do woodworking and could help boys with birdhouses or making the step stools or pinewood derby cars? or if anyone is an outdoor nut that would show the boys how to set up a tent, or identify trees or rocks or do the whittling chit with them to teach pocketknive safety. moms can help with chore charts and cooking and anthign else that aligns with their interest.

 

Now don't forget the community, or even the nearest traditional scout unit in your area if your bishop won't mind. sometimes there is a very small local pack that you can combine forces with for pinewood derby or other big things.

But also don't forget to look around at lowes and home depot and michaels for things like birdhouse building workshops. and local rock and mineral museum for geology stuff, a local tree farm or nursery to do some plant identification and leaf collections, local bakery for a tour, ride on public transportation around the block, see if the local zoo has a scout discount day.

 

Ask the boy scout troop if they can't give you a boy on a regular basis, could you get a couple of boys to help with pocketknife safety for webelos and bears? or for knot tying. or to play games for a cub scout olympics day. or help running the pinewood derby.

 

 

Check for council or district events that will fullfill your needs as well.

 

Don't do it all alone, ask and keep asking for help. you may not get what you want, but you might get what you need.....

I woke up this morning and realized if we keep the same evening time that we're doing for summer (because it was too hot to run around outdoors in the afternoon) that dads could help. I know my husband wants to come teach the computers and video games belt loops as well as engineer and the electrical stuff. There's another dad, who loves to help in his kids' classes at church, so I think he'd help at scouts. Even the bishop (a webelos' father) has taken a turn, teaching the webelos handyman, so perhaps he'd like to help at other times, too.

Have the rules changed recently for running a pack? Used to be a requirement of the charter to have a separate Tiger DL if you had Tiger-aged boys; a separate Cub DL if you had Wolf and Bear-aged boys and a separate Webelos DL if you had Webelos. The only allowed combined dens were Wolf and Bear and Webelos I and II. How are you getting away with one DL running the ENTIRE program?

We don't do Tigers. We do have 1 wolf and 2 webelos leaders. I am the bears leader. Problem is that the webelos leaders are doing nothing (family issues). Also the wolf leader may be doing the best she can, but her best is just to show up most of the time. I am running the den meetings. LDS cub scout leadership is a bit different. The bishopric and the presidency over the children's program are inspired to "call" leaders to their positions. Then we can accept or decline. Therefore, it is extremely rare for anyone to just up and volunteer to do anything. (I guess I'm weird- I volunteered to play piano for the children's program on Sunday, but it was a no brainer because there was no one else to do it. I also volunteered to teach a very challenging class of 4-5 year olds, half of them having special needs. What was I thinking?) Things are not working in my congregation the way they should. The presidency over the children are supposed to be over cub scouts, but have told me they will have nothing more to do with the program. They refuse to help. The webelos leaders have told the bishop of their family issues and how they cannot do scouts, but he refuses to let them go, therefore no new leaders will be called. The wolf leader is doing her best, though her best is not very helpful. I have faith that I need to do what I have been called to do, but I need to study this out to figure out how I can possibly manage all of this. I have asked the scout master if he had any scouts that might help. (I'm not hopeful.) I also plan to send around a note to parents, asking for help. (Not hopeful there, either.) Perhaps I might even try to send around signups for helping with den meetings. I'm still trying to figure this out. I cannot quit. There are 8 boys that will be effected if I give up.

My problem was trying to schedule wolves' date=' bears, and webelos in one. I think I'm stuck. Must try working this out some more. I can't get everything done, while working with all three and half the webelos having had 6 months to work on stuff before the others came in. I just can't do it all in 40 minutes. Perhaps we'll rotate and work on wolves one week, bears one week, and webelos on the other. Or maybe something will happen so I'm not responsible for all of them.[/quote']

 

I wanted to ask one thing about this, if you rotated them weekly like that and were one of the leaders to be at all these meetings, would this affect you personally as in burning out? Not sure how your pack meets go but that would have you doing something almost, if not, every single week. I'm a newbie to all this so this may be the norm for some. I just think having to do that on top of everything else that is added to our plates as den leaders would be very straining on you. Again, it all depends on where you are and who you're working with on how the work is distributed. But definitely consider yourself in this as well, before stretching yourself too thin. I do wish you the best of luck, that is quite a task to take on.

We have always had den meetings every week, except the week of pack meeting. I have been in charge of den meetings for 6 months. Yes, there has been burn out- especially when things are rather involved. Right now we're doing athlete, the physical fitness belt loop, and volleyboll belt loop. After that we're all going to pick up trash, then we need to do a soccer or basketball belt loop, a hike, and fire safety combined with cooking outdoor food (foil packets). When fall comes, I want to get to working on the bear rank with my one bear. I don't know how to do that without cheating the webelos, but I did do bears and wolves together for 7 months. It works out okay, unless I try to get the other leader to work on wolf stuff on the other side of the room. One week for bears and wolves and two for webelos sounds doable. (One achievement per month.) We could do field trips on any fifth weeks.

How about for the rest, though? What if one boy is sick or something on the day of the hike or the boy scout outdoor activity?

So his parents aren't into it and won't help. Either the boy doesn't really care, or he has the worlds worst parents... All the Mormon's I've met have been stellar parents, maybe you found the rejects.

 

Either way, I wouldn't worry about him at all. Let him have fun. If you feel bad, talk to him for 10 minutes about the importance of Rank Advancement, maybe he'll go home and finish Bobcat with his parents. If not, oh well, life moves on.

 

But derailing the Den's advancement for boys that might actually do their Webelos Rank and Arrow of Light for him is silly.

This boy's family isn't active. His parents are divorced or separated or something and there's an extra guy and kid living at home. (Not sure what the exact situation is.)

So, I wonder if we could have different meeting lengths for the different ranks? I could have 15 minutes to work with the bears and then another 15 to do webelos. The issue with the wolf leader is that she is never on time to anything. She is not a dependable person, which is why I am running all cub scouts myself. (I wonder if it would work to tell the boys a later time and not tell her?) I just need her (or a substitute) to show up. I think I will try sending a letter out to the parents, letting them know I need help to run the scout program. Not sure they'd care.

I also sent an email over the the scout master, asking if he had any scouts, who would be willing to come help. I am doubtful, but thought it was work asking about.

If I don't think we'll have enough time to complete a project from scratch, I will do some prep work ahead of time to minimize the things the boys have to do at the meeting. That goes for woodcrafts and regular crafts. My goal is to have them take home a finished project. They may have to paint or stain at home if they really want it to look nice, but it goes home fully constructed. I usually have them do only one or two sawcuts each, so I pre-cut some of the boards for them. Sometimes I have them do a group wood-working project, if our pack is in need of some item. My Webelos built a large Advancement Ladder for the pack where each boy constructed a portion of the ladder, painted their portion, then took turns putting the pieces together to make the finished project.

 

I would have your son try to do a potholder before you bring that one to a meeting. With the kids that age, those potholders really take a lot longer to make then you think they would, and (for me) finishing the edges takes forever.

My son crochets, which is basically what you do to make the finished edge. (He has older sisters. He crochets like a boy, though- he's got all kinds of super mario brothers figures made out of yarn.) I had already decided teaching the boys to crochet was out. You make a good point about the potholders.

So, I wonder if we could have different meeting lengths for the different ranks? I could have 15 minutes to work with the bears and then another 15 to do webelos. The issue with the wolf leader is that she is never on time to anything. She is not a dependable person, which is why I am running all cub scouts myself. (I wonder if it would work to tell the boys a later time and not tell her?) I just need her (or a substitute) to show up. I think I will try sending a letter out to the parents, letting them know I need help to run the scout program. Not sure they'd care.

I think the problem with bobcat are the two requirements that must be done with a parent. Speaking of that, the fitness activity badge also requires much to be completed at home, with a parent, so webelos may not even be obtainable for this boy. (If he does get bobcat finished.) I am aware that bobcat must be earned first. The boy didn't even complete the requirements for the other ranks anyway. As an LDS pack, we all know which boy scout troop the kids will join. (Even if it is sub-par.)

My problem was trying to schedule wolves, bears, and webelos in one. I think I'm stuck. Must try working this out some more. I can't get everything done, while working with all three and half the webelos having had 6 months to work on stuff before the others came in. I just can't do it all in 40 minutes. Perhaps we'll rotate and work on wolves one week, bears one week, and webelos on the other. Or maybe something will happen so I'm not responsible for all of them.

I've read that you should just start crafts, but send them home for the boy to finish. That would free up a lot of time and we'd be able to get craftsman in over a few months, but only devoting a little bit of time. I'm worried, however that things wouldn't be finished. My son never finished the bear sawdust and nails achievement. We brought home the 3/4 made toolbox and never finished. We also have all the pieces to make a pinewood derby car display, but never did assemble it. (I'm not a woodworker and his father doesn't do that stuff.)

 

I was planning to make: toolbox (so it counts for bears as well- is there an easier way to make it?), bird feeder (again it works for a bear achievement as well), then maybe the patch vest thingy for the extra patches and pins, a brag lanyard for mom to put her pins on, potholders (I've got a couple looms for woven potholders.), and drawstring bag??? (My 8 year old made a drawstring bag, so older kids should be able to do it.)

I cannot start the meeting on time because church rules state we must have 2 leaders. I am usually there early with my son. The first boy may show up on time, but the second is after that, then the third and so on. The second adult usually comes 10 minutes late.

We have a boy in our pack, who has not earned his bobcat, wolf, or bear ranks. He is now a webelos. He was signed up for webelos' camp, but did not attend. All the other webelos attended camp. At camp, they earned readyman and quite a bit of outdoorsman. There were many others, but these are the only two they did that are required for arrow of light. Am I obligated to do these activity badges again for the boy who missed them? Also, we have to make plans for the webelos to go on a hike, do an outdoor activity with the boy scouts and attend a boy scout meeting together as a den. What if one boy misses? Do we have to do it all again? Can they do it on their own as a "make-up"?

Just wondering. We've been doing an hour, but it is so hard when people show up late (our meetings start 10 minutes after), then we have to have time for the opening ceremony, then we have little time to get stuff done, while trying to keep boys on task. Now with all three ranks together, it's difficult to get much of anything completed! I'm trying to order by importance those things that must be done as a den, but I also know most boys don't do anything at home.

Thanks for all the links. I will check them out. I need to get a plan before I run out of plans! The pack is very small- 2 Wolves, 1 Bear, and 5 Webelos. That changes again in October, November, January, etc Since I have a 10 year old, myself, I am rather invested in the Webelos' program running, then I've got to do Bears, which is my responsibility, and I feel like I should not ignore the wolves while I'm at it, but half the wolf stuff needs to be done with a parent, so we don't have to work on quite as much.

I went insane attempting to be the Bears and Wolves leader at the same time. Now the Webelos have been added. Oh, sure, I always get a second adult to show up to meetings, but the rest is on me. Right now we're doing the webelos' athlete, which earns a belt loop for all (physical fitness belt loop)- also slowly working on the volleyball belt loop- after that we pick up trash. Then we will probably do the ultimate belt loop (if I can figure out how to play) and if we have time before September, we'll probably do basketball. In September I've planned to start working on bear requirements, seeing as how I'm the bear leader. (At the moment, the only bear has already earned his rank and will be a webelos in 2 weeks- this is lds scouts, where boys change rank on their birthday.) This is lds scouts, so I just have to sit around and wait for leadership to be changed. I'd rather plan for no change than to be disappointed when it doesn't happen. Are there any helps for doing 3 groups of boys at a time? I know we can do the webelos craftsman with all and have it work for wolves and bears, but I am really not prepared to teach craftsman. I tried calling the only hardware store in town (home depot) to see if they would help and no, they don't do that. I need help!

Glad it's not just me. I was worried I had been banned.

Thanks for letting me see things more calmly. I'll make my son label his rock collection and bring it to pack meeting. I also figure checking my oil and tire pressure every day for two weeks will be beneficial to both him and myself. (Me- so I know the levels are okay and him so hopefully after so much checking, he'll do it when he has a car to care for.)

Christinaka' date=' you and your son are "doing your best" under poor leadership.[/quote']

 

I do understand that the way LDS scouts are run are often sub-par compared to the regular scouts. Not only are the boys automatically signed up for scouts, whether it's the family's decision to join or not, but the leaders are all volunteerED, rather than volunteering themselves. My dad got into scouting when my older brother was a cub scout. He's still a scouter and goes to a bunch of camps to cook. I went to a live scout training back in the day when the internet was not quite as much as it is now. There are some fantastic scout leaders out there- because their motivation comes from within. I wish I was as enthusiastic. I do want to do my best as a leader and as a parent, but honestly, I would not have volunteered for this position if it were up to me. I feel very overwhelmed.

No, our leaders have not been trained. I did all the online training (leader specific, youth protection, fast start, and even the LDS scout training) the evening I was put into the position. I have brought up training with the rest of the leaders several times. They admit they haven't even done as much as the youth protection training. I brought it up with the bishop and he claimed he thought it was very important, but I have yet to see anything done about it. I work a lot with the wolf leader, seeing as how she's too spacey to plan anything, so we do bears and wolves together and we do talk a lot. (I've been trying to get her to help out a bit more and make decisions.) She knows she should do the training and that it's really easy, but she really doesn't get around to doing much on her own.