ThreeFiresEagle

I appreciate everyone's feedback; for the theory provided by T2Eagle, as it specifically addressed my question, for the detail laid out by Fred, for Pacan's reminder that scout safety is priority, and for DuctTape's welcome into the community.  Others may have missed the mark on my post but that's ok, your input and suggestions are valued too!

To be clear, I have no concern that the troop is not going to organize an event that meets this requirement, and I did not intend to imply as such.  Just stating that it hasn't happened yet but also, since my scout is eager to pursue his hiking and backpacking merit badges and this requirement (9b) coupled with the example in my original post could be a great opportunity for him to get his feet wet in preparation for both of those merit badges, it is unfortunate that it would not/could not/may not count towards Camping 9b if not done as part of a troop/patrol activity, which is why my question was phrased as such.   

To address the importance of having the scouts lead the planning, no disagreement there.  We sometimes find they need some gentle guidance to let them realize the same outcome that you "expected" all along, and there is nothing wrong with that.  For example, if a troop or patrol needs to plan a hike to meet a requirement, that can be done literally anywhere.  If you give them three options for where they can plan it and suggestions of how they can plan it, then they can decide which one they will plan, and then they will have met both the requirement and the spirit of the intent, all while staying well within the limitations of the SM/ASM.  Long run-on sentences but I think we are all in alignment on letting the boys do their work.

More simply put, I am registered with both my younger son's pack as a DL and with my older son's troop as a MBC.  Any independent activities that my son does, get prior approval for and signed for by other leaders, be it SM/ASM/or another MBC.  However, as a MBC myself, I may one day be challenged with the same question I posed above, and I want to be prepared to defend the requirement's intent as written, which I why I ultimately joined the forum and asked for a discussion on the matter.  

Thank you to all who responded, and again, looking forward to many more conversations with you fine people.

Sincerely, 

🔥🔥🔥🦅

Hey group, happy to be here and just joined today.  Eagle Scout dad with a Tenderfoot son in the troop.  I have done my DD on this requirement, and I am looking for feedback on further interpretation of the requirement.  From other postings, it seems the consensus is that covering two of the activities in one outing is generally permitted.  For example, an out and back plan of an overnight backpacking trip, two + miles up 1,000' of gain, camping overnight, and returning two + miles down the next day should satisfy both the 4-mile backpacking trip and the hiking of 1,000' elevation gain. 

What is getting to me is the wording in requirement 9 a and b itself.  9a says camp 20 nights "at designated scouting activities or events" and 9b says "on any of these camping experiences".  It ties the two together and if you are being picky about wording, these two 9b activities have to be done at a troop sanctioned event and cannot be completed independent from (ie. two or three of us dads and our boys out for a weekend of bonding such as the backpacking example above).  Of note, my son has well over 20 nights camping WITH HIS TROOP (9a completed); none of which were aimed at 9b.  All of his hiking and backpacking MB requirements can be done independent of the troop's plans, but it appears this MB requirement relies on the troop's planning to achieve this specific requirement. 

To me, the requirement isn't ambiguous; it is very clear.  Can anyone hypothesis the value of requiring this to be completed as a troop outing while the hiking and backpacking MB excursions don't?  If anything, a troop may plan a 1,000' climb while another scout favours the 15-mile bike-ride.  He is now at the mercy of the consensus of the troop.

Do some of you MB counsellors accept independent excursions for 9b, if the 20 nights with the troop have already been recorded?

Any/all interpretations are welcomed and looking forward to many years on this forum.

Sincerely, 

🔥🔥🔥🦅