Cardinal

Hey, I like the last one about the ASPL taking over for the SPL.

We also have an issue with the older boys, who might be SPL or ASPL, or PLs, not going to camp, but opting for high adventure activities, so that position has a void for camp.

Thanks for everyone.

Our patrols are set. Interesting mix of ages, too, as we combined clusters. Though they all fit.

Interesting selections for PL, too. I'm looking forward to watching this unfold.

Hi,

Thanks for everyone for your suggestions.

We had each boy give the names of two closest friends. The group split into three obvious groups. Now the SPL (with my assistance) is working to place the handful of others, either as a patrol of their own or with the stronger (more bonded) groups).

Eagle? How often do you realign? It seemed from the PL handbook that once created patrols would stay together, picking up members as openings were created?

Gold Winger,

So you do try to actively mix ages rather than stick with "buddies"?

Thanks for the advice.

We have about 45 scouts. For the past few years we have realigned the patrols each year. The SM assigns patrol members and patrol leaders; the scouts elect the SPL and ASPL, each for one year terms. The patrols are rarely used intact.

For campouts they are often completely changed.

I've been reading the various handbooks for SM, SPL, PL and want to change to align moreso with the patrol method.

How should we form the patrols? Since we would be starting from scratch, do we somehow let the boys select their own patrols? Seems a bit like picking teams. Someone always gets left out, or picked last, or not on the team they want to be on.

Can we have them each write down the names of their closest friends? Then let the SPL and older boys arrange them?

What is the right combination of "boy led" for this?

Also, should we have shorter terms for the offices?

Consider this:

Recommendation 6-8 boys per den.

You have a den of 8 and gain two. Now you have an over large den or two overly small dens.

So, clearly you have to improvise somewhat. But you must avoid a large social group. That's not scouts. Just as church must include God, scouts must include some portion of the scout program.

For Tigers we found that we had a lot of "family" events since the parents were coming and each family had a second child of the same age. So, having only three tiger cubs worked well. The boys, however, thought it was too small.

For Wolf and Bear dens I think having around 6-9 is the right size. If the den gets to 10 I would consider splitting it. Also, a good time to push for more boys.

With Webelos you need the smaller size. You are doing more learning and the boys will need more one on one attention. So 5 isn't really too small.

Splitting is tough. Even the adult leaders become attached to their kids. Yes, "their kids". So expect trouble. You just don't knwo where it will come from.

Be open. Consider various options for splitting. It is my opinion that you should not use the first group in to keep together. That makes it seem that you weren't a den. Also, change the den numbers. Perhaps you can have them related to the old den number. But don't let anyone feel like they were pushed out. Even the old leader should "retire" the old den number.

Consider letting the boys each pick a best friend. But it must be mutual (and preferably done by the parents, not the kids). If it isn't mutual, it becomes a chain that could include them all .

If the split is at the Webelos level you can emphasize the move to "patrols" and get them each a new name.

Good luck.

I've seen both sides of this one. I love that the BSA created this program so that the boys get some flashy recognition. It also gets them interested in lot's of different academics and sports.

But when I see them earning 5 or 6 loops in the dead of winter, I start to wonder if we're not awarding them for stuff they already did too much.

And how many boys even know what they did to earn badges anymore? We had a bear ceremony recently where I tried to get them to say what they had done in any of the areas for the badge: God, Country, Family, Self. What awesome silence! While I wouldn't try that again, I do wonder if we even tell them what they are working on. I remember reading my handbooks for hours.

And as for the special badges, I've said here before how I was waiting for the 75th Anniversary Badges to come out. I had our year planned and was using the theme for everything.

But at >$4 each we would have had at least$160 just for that one badge. And they easily could have earned 2 or three of them. Why even have so many related badges?

I'm getting sick of the BSA trying to get more money out of the program.

Scouting is growing in popularity in our town. Parents seem to like that it gives them some framework for teaching their own values.

But the greater BSA is looking greedy, yet broke.

I think this is a topic for a different thread, but the underlying theme is this: let the boys know what they are earning, make them work for it, reward them publicly. If some of the boys seem to get into more of the program than the others, see what happens. No body likes to split the bill evenly if one person always orders steak when the others are getting burgers for lunch. But everyone should recognize the honor of someone earning one of the scout religious awards. As for the extras, parent pins, etc. maybe buy your own.

We have similar problems. One den did split to its own benefit. Program for the kids that split off (and despite our efforts to avoid this, it did end up that way) has been small, but solid.

Other den tried to form two subdens. They refused to get new den numbers or to get separate nights. They are now pretty much still one den; actually a pack within our pack.

Even after all this drama I do not know how I would do this in the future. District was not really any help. Lot's of talk about recommendations.

Having dens that are too large are not good for the boys or the program, and discourage others from becoming leaders. It is daunting!

Any ideas? We had many nights of sleepless struggle and stress. Lost some "friends" too.

Most of our dens target the B&G to finish their year's rank badge. Bobcat is awarded at the first pack meeting after they start (parents and den leaders prepare the boys).

As the den programs are oriented to work with the parents, most of the boys are in step with this. The last two years one of the den leaders has decided to run an integrated program that works on both achievements and electives throughout the year, then awards all at the final meeting.

While I remember each cub (and family) being more responsible for his own advancement, I like the program more with the dens focusing on advancement. I think our boys are served better.

Also, we don't spend each pack meeting with the same ceremonies for three or four months straight. We try to have family activities at the meetings and also get them over in an hour. Parents have been very receptive to both ideas.

We have found that having the B&G targeted for advancement works well. It gets the boys going and focused. After Feb they can work on electives, and often by April the den leaders are burned out and the boys are ready for Spring activities (soccer, baseball, etc.) so that scheduling becames very difficult.

I do have some problem with the last den that seems to keep their own schedule. It's not that the boys are on their own schedule, but rather the leaders. So no awards were handed out to these boys (and this is a large den) until May 1st.

Any idea?

You have some interesting issues that might complicate the approach you need to take.

- the other leaders do not believe there is a problem

- no CM

Are your den leaders all on the pack committee? If not, perhaps you should change that. Right now it appears that the pack functions separately from the dens. So they figure that their dens are working ok and the pack is someone else's problem.

Our pack committee is pretty much run by the den leaders, with the CM and CC added to the mix. If you have a committee separate from the den leaders then they can do what this assessment. If the den leaders are the committee, then they have to agree that there is a problem or need, even if they don't see it as being large.

It is difficult to lead volunteers. Some times you have to let them do things their way, or they won't want to do anything. Other times you have to figure out a way to motivate them to see it your way.

At this time you are a committee member. You probably need to change this. Publicly accept a position as either CC or CM. Without this it will be more difficult to create the changes. However, you need to 'accept' the position, not appoint yourself. This requires that you look for your opportunity.

Without such a role, it might be viewed awkwardly for you to stand up at the Pack meeting and say that you need leaders. Who would you be speaking for? Is the CC asking you to address the parents? When the other den leaders think there is no problem?

Some of your work will need to be behind the scenes, but try not to appear political. This cannot become a Coup.

There is a long and proud tradition in this country of women stepping into roles left open during war. Use that image to convince the moms that with Dad away, they must teach their sons to be men. In ten years, those boys will be the men going off to war. Time is moving on.

Homework calls.

Good luck.

Cardinal

You have some interesting issues that might complicate the approach you need to take.

- the other leaders do not believe there is a problem

- no CM

Are your den leaders all on the pack committee? If not, perhaps you should change that. Right now it appears that the pack functions separately from the dens. So they figure that their dens are working ok and the pack is someone else's problem.

Our pack committee is pretty much run by the den leaders, with the CM and CC added to the mix. If you have a committee separate from the den leaders then they can do what this assessment. If the den leaders are the committee, then they have to agree that there is a problem or need, even if they don't see it as being large.

It is difficult to lead volunteers. Some times you have to let them do things their way, or they won't want to do anything. Other times you have to figure out a way to motivate them to see it your way.

At this time you are a committee member. You probably need to change this. Publicly accept a position as either CC or CM. Without this it will be more difficult to create the changes. However, you need to 'accept' the position, not appoint yourself. This requires that you look for your opportunity.

Without such a role, it might be viewed awkwardly for you to stand up at the Pack meeting and say that you need leaders. Who would you be speaking for? Is the CC asking you to address the parents? When the other den leaders think there is no problem?

Some of your work will need to be behind the scenes, but try not to appear political. This cannot become a Coup.

There is a long and proud tradition in this country of women stepping into roles left open during war. Use that image to convince the moms that with Dad away, they must teach their sons to be men. In ten years, those boys will be the men going off to war. Time is moving on.

Homework calls.

Good luck.

Cardinal

We too got a pocket knive. But I immediately realized that the blade lock was too hard for our wolf to press without placing his fingers across where the blade was going.

Poor marketing. What's wrong with a more normal pocket knife?

I'm a bit disappointed by the pricing of many of the cub scout items.

I'm CM for a pack in in the Northeast and was very excited to learn of the 75th anniversary. I started asking about celebration plans before the district people even seemed to know about them. Then I learned on the internet of the awards for pack, cubs, leaders, and family (guess they left our family pet).

Just yesterday did I notice the pricing when I looked on the CD-ROM I was finally sent last month. This is awful.

%3.95 is way too much. And the patch doesn't even use the logo with Akela, Baloo, etc. that is on everything else. And the ridiculous collection of tents, packs, knives, cups, etc.

I would proudly get some nice item, but I'm probably the only one in the pack. My own boys don't seem to get into the idea of 75 years. They have more excitement just to be building another derby car with no interest in making the 75th the theme.

We will probably make our own patches from now on. If anyone else wants to join in, we can save on the quantity.

Cardinal