HulkSmash

Even if that doesn't happen.  Troops and Crews will still be around outside the church.  My daughters already want to join crews because the YW only teach how to sew and bake cookies.  LOL

 For me, patrol method is giving the scouts the "independence" (meaning little or no outside influence) to make decisions as a group and learning (growing) from the consequences of those decisions.

From a troop perspective I could not agree more.  I think your statement of "independence" speaks volumes as to what the patrol method stands for.  At least for me.  From a national structured course perspective, you are going to get a toned down and/or modified version for sure.  I liked your PLC example though.  That sounds like a great course to be a part of.  

John, 

Welcome aboard.  I am new as well to the forums.  I was an LDS Scoutmaster for the past 6 years but now I am in the background on the committee and am doing a number of council events but the boys still refer to me as their Scoutmaster.  Unfortunately I have seen three Scoutmasters come and go since I left a year ago which frustrates me to no end.  I have had mixed emotions and seen a lot of different reactions in my ward/stake concerning Scouting and the latest decision.  I think most of it is due simply to lack of understanding by members.  I have fielded a lot of questions from non-members on what I thought it meant overall but all I have is an opinion.  

From a program perspective it's a good thing.  The vast majority of wards had paper crews and teams.  It's hard enough having a functioning troop in the church without trying to implement two other programs.  I would challenge any council to show me a proper functioning varsity team.  They are few and far between and to think the Church would have a hope of doing it right was a dream at best.  Venture crews are much better if ran properly but unfortunately the stigma with LDS units rings true in many cases that parents look at the Eagle as the accomplishment and not the journey to get there.  It's all about getting the award.  If I hear "21 and done" from a parent it makes my skin crawl.  With that mentality the emphasis on program that does not result in Eagle is disregarded leaving the crew as something "extra" that doesn't warrant attention.  

The latest decision will enable the young boys to be in Scouting and the older ones to continue if they so choose which will reduce the number of YM who are seemingly forced to attend Scout meetings.  From a quality standpoint it is a good thing in my eyes.  My personal opinion however is that once Pres. Monson passes it is just a matter of time until the Church pulls out of Scouting altogether.  That will be a sad day.  I hope I'm wrong but I feel like it's just a matter of time.  

To bring it back around a bit to the original question regarding a female SPL.  Much of the conversation has been regarding the difficulty that would arise in her implementing and/or executing the patrol method.  We obviously have a variety of opinions here which is great so from a course execution standpoint where do you feel the challenges lie if any with a female performing in that role?  Additionally, I would be interested to hear what we consider "the patrol method" as a standalone entity.  I have a feeling that with the multiple generations of experience on this thread alone that we all may have a slightly different outlook on what that means.  

Welciome! Oh, and thank your hockey compatriots for all the catfish!

Let's go Pens.

Too soon.  lol.  No worries.  Congrats on the cup.  That early goal was taken away which stunk but there were plenty of opportunities.  That goal at the end was ridiculous.  Talk about the puck bouncing your way.  Great game though.  

I hope everyone is doing well.  I was searching the internet about a few topics of interest and came across this site.  Looks like there is a lot of activity, knowledge and no shortage of opinions and experience which is a great thing.  I have been scouting since I was a kid down in Florida.  I was in the North Florida Council and attended Camp Shands as a youth.  Got my Eagle at the last minute and went in the Marine Corps.  During that time I got married and was somewhat active in Scouting but not much.  Upon getting out I moved here to Nashville where I was Assistant Scoutmaster and/or Scoutmaster for a combined 10 years.  I have served at the district level involved in communications and camping then went to Wood Badge and had a great time and was fortunate enough to be asked back for three staff tours as a guide and ASM over Logistics and Guides.    I have had the good fortune of being course director for Klondike Derby for our Venturers and Dean of Boy Scouting  for University of Scouting.    By far the most rewarding thing I have done aside of working with my boys in the troop has been the privilege to serve on NYLT staff as ASM of Program last year and as the Scoutmaster this year.  I have one more year to go in that role and a few more as the "has been" but I am enjoying the ride.   Glad to be part of the group.  Looking forward to the interactions.  

TAHAWK you make good points.  With that said I guess it depends on how the course you were a part of is run.  The course I went through and the courses I staffed I felt like the patrol method was emphasized heavily through a number of games presentations and activities.  I believe it also depends on how we would define the "patrol method."

For a WB course there are things that are pre-determined.  The same is for NYLT.  The participants do not pick their SPL, the patrol they are in or the games they play.  Those would simply be unrealistic to do given the planning and preparation necessary for a successful course.  I feel like the fact that we do not conduct troop elections in these training settings and that we have structured activities does not take away from the ability to teach and instruct the proper methodology.  That's just my outlook and opinion but I see where there are valid points to both sides.  It will always be a struggle to model it 100% in a training environment.  I too am looking forward to how a re-write will help to improve the courses.  

Thanks for the welcome.  With regard to the patrol method.  It is as much if not more the adults as it is the youth's ability to facilitate.  I find that in more cases than not it is the adult leader who is not allowing the patrol method to operate rather than the youth.  I have been very critical in my adult staff selections to ensure that I get adults who are willing to be in the background.  I would support that argument as evidenced in the wood badge course criteria.  The entire course is modeled around putting adults in a unit setting to emphasize the patrol method (among other things of course but you get the point).  I find that when you have adults who are willing to step back and let the youth lead the patrol method tends to implement itself.    

From a perspective of a females ability to implement the patrol method, I have been fortunate in having multiple females who have staffed NAYLE, been to Philmont/Northern Tier/Kodiak staffed Wood Badge/Powder Horn and a variety of other leadership courses.  That in itself does not qualify them, however from an experience standpoint it surely helps.  To be candid, the patrol method is something that can be taught and shown to a good leader and for females in active crews they are entirely youth led already so it is very easy.  When I am looking for my youth staff I look for young men/women who have the following traits:  

1. Have the organizational skills, drive and commitment to show up to all meetings and put the work in to prepare for the course.  
2. Their heart must be in the program.  Knowing the syllabus is one thing but living the values and being a true servant leader is something altogether different.  
3. Maturity.  Both females and males.  I don't have tolerance for staff drama.  There are too many things going on during a course for me to have to divert attention to staff issues.  

The biggest decision I feel I make as Scoutmaster is my SPL.  I want the best leader possible out of the group regardless of sex.  I pick someone I feel has the traits above and we then start the process of selecting additional staff.  That's where the patrol method starts.  I trust my SPL completely.  From staff selection to SD scheduling and organization I work directly with the SPL but he/she makes the calls and organizes everything with my confirmation and/or guidance in the background.  They understand from the start that they are responsible for their staff and their development.  At the same time they know the adults are there for support but they run absolutely everything leading up to the course.  If there are any questions about patrol method on SD1 they are quickly resolved by the time course starts because all of our meetings are run by the youth leaders.    

Hopefully this answers some questions.  Sorry it was long winded.  

I can speak from experience.  I know this is my first post but I was curious how people felt on this topic as I searched the internet.  I am the current Scoutmaster/Course Director for my council's NYLT course for 2017 and 2018.  We run two years as Scoutmaster and two years as advisor.  Last year when I was over program it was obvious who the most qualified person was for SPL and that was one of my female staffers.  We had a male SPL at that time and he did an absolutely amazing job.   For 2017 I put her in place (as well as a number of other females as guides and such) and she knocked it out of the park.  This year I will have another female but only because when I look at qualifications and who's heart is truly in the program that's what makes the most sense.  It doesn't hurt that I have young ladies who have staffed multiple NAYLE courses, sit on the VOA and hold regional leadership positions that help them to be the leaders they are.  To me we should be gender blind and pick the candidate who is most qualified to bring the best program to the youth.  We preach diversity in both Wood Badge and NYLT so I see it as just another way we live the values we are teaching.  Unfortunately there are those that do not feel that way.