BubbaBear

Having read a great deal of the debate on the topics of pedophilia, homosexuality and others in these postings, something comes to mind; I hope that we adults are not encouraging the children to take a stance on these issues at their age.

Speaking for myself, I grew up in a time when adults made policy and children enjoyed life. We seriously lack that anymore.

I never had to worry about whether I should be straight or gay, if we were meeting at the Congregational Church this week or anything else that was of adult nature.

The adult leaders I grew up with knew that it was their resonsibility to make sure that we children were 1) safe, 2) provided for and 3)allowed to enjoy the simplicities of life.

Why have we lost that? Is it that we adults (and children trying to act like adults) are so self-serving that the "at all costs" tactics have to be employed?

I am not naiive, just seriously hopeful. Please don't try to tell me that we do not have the ability to think about consequences before we bastardize the innocense of programs like Scouting, all in the name of our own wants.

I respect the "cause fighters" on both sides, however I respect the children's rights more.

Yeah, but could Mr. Bush discuss secret military operations with his top rank advisors while foundling an intern? Now there is a true leader of the free world! (lol)

Personally, I think that all these openly provocative actions in Broward County are just a smoke screen to cover up the way they voted during the last national election.

I keep reading of that most of us scouters think gays should be let in as leaders, NJ... I am enthrawled. Please tell me where you get that information from. Interestingly enough, that is not the case in SW Florida, at least by the scouters I have been in discussion with over this issue.

I have gone one step further; After getting the financial report from my insurance company this year, I noticed that they had donated some phenominal amount to the United Way via "employee contributions". I wrote a letter to the Chairman of the Board asking them to review the issue of the UW cancelling support of the BSA. Maybe nothing will come of it, but as in the A/C story I posted, a "heads up" doesn't hurt.

Slontwovvy posted a comment about (what if we had negotiated with Hitler?), well if we had been that naiive the world would certainly be a different place today. I am glad we didn't, and that is why I am glad that we aren't negotiating with Osamma.

Personally, I am proud that President Bush took a deep breath before actually striking Afghanastan. I believe he showed that we are a fair nation by giving Osamma a chance to surrender.

Longhaul's observation of (having things forced on him) is in effect how I feel about the topic. This issue does't concern me that much however because it has been fought before. I reccollect reading about God's wrath over the subject in a couple cities way back. Who am I to judge?

If you want to unify the nation in this war against Mid-Eastern terrorism, and you feel as though we are dividing our country over triviality, think about this; How do Muslim nations treat homosexuals?

I got one for you...Our A/C went on the fritz this week, partially because of mishandling by the company that did the maintenance service.

One of the owners stopped out to resolve the problem, and in the course of conversation I had mentioned that my son had just gotten his Eagle award. He replied that his nephew just had gotten his.

I know that the entire system has to be replaced and in discussing this with the gentleman, I became very adamont about not getting a Carrier Corporation unit. When he asked me why, I told him about how Carrier cut funding for the Scouts. He was flabbergasted "Jake", he said, "I will be meeting with the Carrier representative in two days. I hope you don't mind me passing that along."

"I would appreciate it" was my reply. Just doing my share...

I guess the people of Boston (or at least some of them) are liberal in this respect. I recall a Fraternity Convention I attended years ago having a delegation from Boston attempting to make our college fraternity a co-ed fraternity (never understood what that was).

I wish that those who post in this forum would provide a profile. Postings of this nature are kinda like guerilla warfare being that their identity has no credential, at least from my standpoint. I am a scouter, afterall, its not like I am going to stalk someone over their remarks!

Stalking (at least as scouting goes) is a long lost art from my childhood...

Bob White, you are correct in your quotation but that is not the rules from which I take my comments. I believe that this policy comes from the Rules and Regulations of the BSA. I am in the process of checking my own accuracy on this and will post again as soon as I do. In the meantime, if there is anyone else whom can qualify my remarks please give me a hand here. The purpose of the rule which I am referring to is regarding conflict of interest and spreading yourself too thin in working in more than one major position (you can't serve two masters...so to speak).

Regards...Bubba

In reading the many posts in this forum, I have noticed that many of you hold several or more positions in Scouting. It is not uncommon as we all know.

The point I would like to make is that National Standards say that no scouter is to hold more than ONE primary position...i.e. you may not be a SM and a COR at the same time.

This standard makes a lot of sense if you think about it. How efficient is a person whom is the SM, District Camping Chair and CC to the pack?

No actually, I was the one who did that...I'm former military myself. I believe that boys need to be boys. Scouting is not a military atmosphere, unless it is in a military atmosphere. I'm talking here about rigidity, i.e. NO flexibility.

And yeah, come to think of it, you are right, all of us serve to the pleasure or displeasure of the CO. Problem is that with the "ownership" of a scouting unit comes mismanagement. Spreading themselves thin is easy to do as all of us scouters know all too well. How many CORs even show their faces at troop or committee meetings for that matter?

Bear...I am assuming that you ARE a Woodbadge Bear???If so, I hold you in highest esteem! (lol)

First, a kinda light hearted story. A troop I was in had an ASM that the boys really did not like. The adults kinda tolerated him because ASM's were needed.The boys found a way to get him to leave after many subtle hints (not condoned by the adults). At summer camp one year, they all "washed his tent" in the middle of the night. He left the next day. We had a heck of a mess with that one as you can imagine!

I like the idea of the committe requiring "continuing training" for its leaders. All of you all should abide by it also, that way it is impartial. I had an ASM (retired military person) that was too rigid with the boys...he is wonderful as a roundtable commissioner. He still insists that "his place is with the boys". He is an Eagle Scout as well, and he refuses to go to training as well.

I also agree that the chartering organization is in charge...maybe you should have a heart-to-heart with the org executive??

Sorry, one more thing...Someone pointed out the parent's involvement...I have had several families

pick up their boys a half hour or more after the meetings. Of course they got angry when I told them that if it happened again that I would ask them to not bring their son anymore. Sure, I think about the boy needing Scouting...I also think of how my family would feel if I was accused of child molestation. By the way, if it is any consolation, I believe that child molsters are NOT looked on favorably in prison.

Excuse me for butting into the conversation but I'ld like to make a couple observations:

1) The Youth Portection Program is fine and well but an obvious point is missed; the chartering organization is supposed to check out its leaders before appointing them as leaders. Where were they in this situation, and who were they?

2) Recent happenings suggest that some chartering organizations are now questionable since they either withdraw support from the scouting movement because of the homosexual issue (some of the Jewish Community), or they have highly visible problems (such as the Catholic Church).

I suggest that more scrutiny be used when associated with such apparent chartering organizations. I am sure that there are more and I did not intend to single out either of these but they have done so themselves.

'Preciate it fellas. Hope you don't mind me pikin' your brains once in a while!

By the way, I got my doctorate from University of Scouting Arts this year and began working on the program for Commissioner Science. I deserve one of theose "overtrained" patches! It's real good advice though,Shemgren! And I enjoy it!

I would like to know more about your district, btps...sounds like your people and mine experienced somewhat the same thing. Bring it back...

llwyn...I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. The more I think about it, the more you are probably right. Thinking back, I believe the UC's dropped in on people at one time or another, I wouldn't want to do that!

I'll be in touch with the DC and sign up this week. Thanks.

YIS, Jake (BubbaBear) Lekan

YIS

I agree that it is time that we stand up for what is right, but what exactly is right? I know what I think is right but is it the same thing that you think? My belief is that we have to learn compromise when we can and stand firm when our beliefs are that strong. I stand firm with the decision to teach the children the morals and ethics I grew up with, in hopes that those standards will survive to a better future.

SCOUT SALUTE!

I am reading this thread with much interest. Where I live, the units treat UC's as "spies" for the Scout Exec's. They don't look to them for help but look at them with contempt. Not sure how this came about. I have been asked by the Council Executive, District Field Director and District Chairman to be a unit commissioner but I am reluctant. I told the Council Exec that I was too blunt and would ruffle too many feathers. His reply was that is exactly why I need to do the job. Does this sound familiar to anyone out there? I used to be a good ole' bear too!

That's an interesting story littlebillie.

I don't think that any of us know the answer.

We used to be a country of "majority rules" but seem to have lost our ability to stand as a mojority for fear of lawsuit.

What better way to teach our children how to get their way regardless of the good of the majority!

One reason I decided to be a youth leader is to counteract this mentality. It is unfortunate that we must "play" the youth in this manner but let's face it; what the children learn to day is what the will lead tommorrow. I was dumbfounded to learn (as my thirteen year old did from her science teacher) that the ozone layer is being destroyed by cigarette smoke! She believes it!

We have to take a stand for what is right. The children may have been hurt (and I do not condone that) but what they will ultimately learn is what you and the other Cub leaders make out of the overall picture. I cannot dictate what that will be, but I know what I hope it will be: United We Stand, Divided We Fall! What is it that you all believe the message should be?

Thanks Terry. I wrote a message last night in that thread (I believe) but decided to hold back my criticism at the last minute. I had a feeling that others probably felt the same way. I appreciate your stance on this issue and hopefully everyone reading these postings will reconsider their reason for participating in Scouting before posting comments that are obviously contrary to those aims.

I would like to thank all of you whom replied or didn't reply to my question, you have all helped me to prove my thesis.

By the way, the word "Essayons" is a French word (the slogan of the Army Corp of Engineers) which means "Keep on Striving".

Thank you K9gold-scout...I would be very grateful if you or one of your adult leaders would contact me via e-mail so that I can learn more about your unit(s)...my e-mail address is jakel@nut-n-but.net. Merry Christmas to you all!

Thank your for the info, Eisely.

ESSAYONS!

I want to thank you experienced SM's for this thread. I am rather new (seven years) at the job and get frustrated pretty easily. Frankly, I don't know how you hang in there, but make no mistake...YOU are an inspiration to me. Several years ago, I chose to take on my own "Scoutmaster", I asked him to be my mentor and he graciously accepted. He is also serving as my couselor for the Doctorate Degree of Scouting Arts (here in SW Florida). With the many mistakes I make, I turn to him frequently for answers. He frequently responds by saying:

NEVER FORGET THESE FOUR POINTS ABOUT SCOUTING:

1. The YOUTH are the reason for Scouting. They own

the movement.

2. Anything that supports #1 is Good.

3. Anything that diminishes #1 is Bad.

4. In cases of confusion, consult #1.

I am still learning. Hopefully, by the time I have helped the Boys for twenty years or more, I will have it right. In the meantime, I do battle with apathy also!

God Bless my Scoutmaster (REDDOG Maynard), and God Bless you guys (and gals) for your perseverence.

Here is what I can offer you...the slogan of the Army Corps of Engineers...ESSAYONS. It means "Keep on Striving".

I am doing research for my Doctorate from the University of Scouting Arts, Southwest Florida Council...I would like to hear from anyone whom is part of or knows of chartered organizations which are atypical in the sense that they exist for the sake of scouting only. You can e-mail me at :jakel@nut-n-but.net, or post here...thanks