BSA_Bugler

Thank you all, especially Uncleguinea. I did an AOL search for "Command Two Salute" and came up with similar results the best was this one.

 

http://www.chadduck.com/ymarines/drill/salute.htm

 

This page is from The Website for Young Marines

 

The command is hand, SALUTE; TWO.

 

1.) When SALUTE is given,

raise your right hand smartly in the most direct manner until the tip of your forefinger touches the lower part of the headdress above and slightly to the right of your right eye.

Your thumb and fingers should be straight and touch each other.

You should be able to see your entire palm when looking straight ahead.

Your upper arm should be level with the deck and forearm at a 45-degree angle.

Your wrist and hand should be straight, a continuation of the line made by your forearm.

At the same time, if not in ranks, turn your head and eyes toward the person or color you are saluting.

 

2.) At the command TWO, return to attention.

Move your hand smartly in the most direct manner back to its normal position by your side.

To insure simultaneous execution of the second movement of the hand salute when troops are in formation, the preparatory command, "ready" will be used prior to the command of execution, TWO.

 

Trail Pounder, I don't know if the "wishy washy hippie dippies" changed our command. It seems to be normal military protocol from The Website for Young Marines:

 

"Whenever the command present, ARMS is given (since Young Marines do not bear arms), you will execute the hand salute on the command ARMS. Stay at that position until the command ARMS of order, ARMS is given. This salute is normally used during parades, ceremonies, etc. whenever there are male marines carrying arms present. Whichever command is given -- present, ARMS or hand SALUTE --Young Marines will acknowledge said command."

 

(since Young Marines do not bear arms) and neither do Boy scouts I think we are okay with "two"! Trail Pounder, of course if you want to upset the "wishy washy hippie dippies" I will fully support you! I find upsetting "wishy washy hippie dippies" with traditional conservative ideals and actions to be a very cathartic and gratifying experience! Usually wearing a complete "Class A" Uniform, with my militaristic "Campaign Hat" is enough to get them riled!

 

I appreciate everyone's input!

 

I have two (2) questions regarding the command to lower a hand salute (i.e., stop saluting). I have been discussing this with some long time Scouters and none of us seem to know!

 

1.) What is the correct spelling, "to", "too", or "two"?

 

2.) What is the origin of this command, i.e., is it short for some longer forgotten phrase? Or, is it some way derived from an "order arms" command?

 

Thanks, if you know!

 

I think all the requirements are here! Hope this helps!

 

http://www.lastfrontiercouncil.org/cub-scout-75th/

 

 

Follow the link below (above) for each Cub Scout 75th Anniversary Award to learn about the simple and fun requirements for earning the award. Each Award description page also includes links to download the information for printing in your choice of two formats.

 

 

Scout Patch, Family Patch, Leader Patch,

Pack Patch

 

 

Also new during the Cub Scouts 75th Anniversary celebration is the Cub Scout Outdoor Activity Award, shown below. Follow the link shown below to learn about the simple and fun requirements which qualify Tiger Cubs, Wolf Cub Scouts, Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts to earn this new outdoor award. Earning the Cub Scout Outdoor Activity Award is a fun way for Scouts and their pack leaders to enjoy the outing in Scouting.

 

 

Outdoor Activity Awards: Cub Scouts & Webelos Scouts

 

 

FYI-Garrett's parents have started a website. May the Lord give them consolation. I keep them and Garrett in my prayers.

 

http://www.findinggarrett.org/

 

Help Find Garrett Bardsley

 

Garrett Bardsley of Elk Ridge, Utah, a 12-year-old boy, disappeared around 8 a.m. Friday, August 20, just south of Cuberant Lake, off U-150 in Summit County, in the High Uinta Mountains.

 

Garrett and members of Troop 694, sponsored by the Salem Eighth Ward of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were on a camping trip in that area when Garrett disappeared.

 

He was last seen when he went to change clothes after getting wet while fishing with his father, Kevin Bardsley.

 

On Sunday, August 30, the major search effort overseen by Summit County Sheriff Dave Edmunds and his trained search-and-rescue teams was been called off.

 

We Need Your Help!

 

We are in need of volunteers to continue to help us search for Garrett. Any help we could get would be appreciated.

 

 

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=116243

Official Search for Missing Scout Ends

Aug. 29, 2004

 

Sam Penrod reporting The search has ended for a missing boy scout in the Uintas, after nothing was found Sunday. Garrett Bardsley disappeared August 20 and is believed to have died after getting lost near Mirror Lake. It's been a very tough and discouraging day at the search site. Over the last ten days, it's been a grueling situation for Garrett's family, along with the searchers who've tried their best to find him. As the sun began to set Sunday night, hundreds of volunteers left discouraged, knowing the official search for Garrett Bardsley is over. Steve Wilson/ Volunteer: "Very frustrating. Why? Because we can't find him. That's our number one goal, and we can't find him." Sheriff Dave Edmunds/ Summit County Sheriff's Office: "We want to extend our condolences to the family. We feel horrible that we didn't find him. But we are going to continue looking." Over the last ten days, searchers have spent thousands and thousands of man hours covering more than 40 square miles. Sheriff Edmunds: "We've covered a lot of ground and that's very positive because now we know where he's not at. When we continue with the limited searches we'll know where we've already been." Over the last ten days, helicopters, airplanes, and search dogs along with hundreds of people hiking all over the area have searched for Garrett, without any success. There are two theories about why he has not been found. One, he may have kept walking, well beyond the search area. Or, the more likely scenario is that he took shelter in a secluded area of rocks, where he perished from the harsh conditions. Garrett's family plans to regroup and continue with their own day searches in the area, a couple of days a week, while the weather permits. The sheriff supports the family's ongoing efforts, but cautions volunteers to be careful themselves. Sheriff Edmunds: "Never be alone. Always have provisional supplies, and if you get lost, stay in one spot." If we have seen anything encouraging the last ten days, it has been the huge response from volunteers, including trained search and rescue teams, the majority of which are unpaid volunteers. Sadly though, there is still no closure for Garrett's family.

 

http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_2399308 Article Last Updated: 08/25/2004 02:24:35 AM Scouts defend trek safety Leaders say mishaps are rare exceptions By Matthew D. Laplante The Salt Lake Tribune Searchers on horseback, start their search near Pass Lake just off the Mirror Lake HIghway into the Culberant Lake Basin looking for Garrett Bardsley who has been missing since Friday morning. The area is dotted with small lakes and thick timber. The weather Tuesday morning was cold and rainy and optimism of finding him alive is gone. (Al Hartmann/The Salt Lake Tribune) Kristoffer Jones fell to his death from a cliff at Zion National Park. Garrett Bardsley is presumed dead after disappearing in the Uinta Mountains. The tragedies, occurring only weeks apart, took place during organized Boy Scout excursions. Both have focused attention on the preparation and supervision of Scouting activities and on whether policies set up to protect Scouts need to be re-examined. Scout executives say they already have rules in place that, if followed, would have kept the boys safe. Those policies "may be emphasized" in future training of Scouts and leaders, the executives say. "In each case someone chose to break a Scout policy they were trained in," said Darryl Alder, field director for the Utah National Parks Council, which oversaw the trips on which Jones died and Bardsley became lost. Alder also referred to a July incident in which 13-year-old William Dunn was separated from his troop during a trek through the Uintas and hiked alone for three days before he was found. In that case, Dunn was wrongly allowed to fall behind the group without a partner or designated meeting place, Alder says. Jones, a 14-year-old California boy invited to participate in the Zion excursion, was accompanied by other Scouts who were reportedly off the trail when he fell about 1,000 feet from Angels Landing. Witnesses said the boys were well ahead of the rest of the group, including their Scout leader, when Jones fell. Alder declined to speak about what specific policies were broken when Jones fell, saying he has not seen the results of an investigation still underway by the Washington County Sheriff's Office. "I think it's clear in that case, though, that if our policies were closely adhered to, the boy would be with us still," he said. Alder choked up several times as he spoke of Bardsley, 12, who left his father's side while fishing in a Cuberant Lake Basin pond on Friday and disappeared. Cuberant Lake is about 3 miles northwest of Mirror Lake, at about 10,000 feet elevation and in extremely rugged terrain. Though noting that the Boy Scouts would have difficulty enforcing rules over parents supervising their own children, Alder says Bardsley should not have been allowed to go anywhere by himself not even the 150 yards between the pond where he was fishing and the site where he was camping. "We teach the boys to always hike in pairs," he said. Bardsley - who recently returned from a weeklong organized Scout camp where he earned the wilderness survival merit badge - should have known that rule, Alder said. Bardsley reportedly had no provisions with him when he left his father, who was among eight adults supervising 18 boys on the trip. Alder said all Scouts should be equipped with the "10 essentials" of hiking: a map, compass, flashlight, food, extra clothing, sunglasses, first-aid supplies, a pocket knife, matches and kindling. "Most of those things can be carried in a creel or fanny pack," he said. "I've never camped or backpacked without that with me in a pack that I can run with and take anywhere." But no amount of policy making can prevent every possible outcome, Alder said. "We're helping shape character, citizenship and fitness in these youth. The risk in outdoor camping accentuates that," he said. "It's the thing that draws the kids in." Despite the inherent risks, statistics show that Scouting is a relatively safe activity, said council spokesman John Gailey. He figures Utah Scouts spent more than 560,000 nights camping last year - a year in which there was only one incident in which a foursome of boys became lost. The boys were backtracking their steps when they were found two days later. In the past five years, a total of 13 Scouts have become lost. And all were found alive and well, Gailey said. Alder is not sure why things seem to have gotten worse this season. "It's been a tough year."

http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_2399811

Article Last Updated: 08/27/2004 02:49:26 AM

 

'Active search' for Scout to end Sunday

Smaller crew: The boy's father thanks those who turned out Thursday

By Matthew D. LaPlante

The Salt Lake Tribune

 

PASS LAKE, Uinta Mountains - A smaller number of searchers was mustered as dawn broke over the rugged horizon, but Kevin Bardsley's appreciation was not diminished.

"Thank you for coming out here," Bardsley said as he took the hand of each person who arrived to help in the search for his 12-year-old son.

Garrett Bardsley of Elk Ridge disappeared the morning of Aug. 20 after leaving his father's side during a Boy Scout camping trip to the Cuberant Lake Basin in eastern Summit County. Officials do not believe the boy could have survived this long in weather that has been wet, cold and windy. Garrett reportedly was wearing only a black sweatshirt, red sweatpants, socks and shoes when he disappeared, and had no provisions.

So far, Summit County Sheriff Dave Edmunds said, there has been no sign of the missing boy. A sock thought to have belonged to him that was found Monday evening may in fact have belonged to a searcher, he said Thursday.

"We're about 50-50 on that," Edmunds said. "Either way, it's not a bad thing. We've completely covered the area where it was found, so now we can cross that off our list."

Search officials hope to eliminate many more areas - and

 

recover Garrett's body - before Sunday. Barring significant developments in the case, that will be the final day in which Summit County officials will coordinate an "active search" for the Scout, Edmunds said.

Meanwhile, searchers continue to scour what Summit County Deputy Jim Snyder called "very hazardous terrain."

Kevin Bardsley was again at search headquarters - about 2 1/2 miles southeast of the spot where he last saw his son - as the searchers returned Wednesday afternoon and evening. Again, he expressed heartfelt appreciation. Family members say they have been overwhelmed by the amount of effort being put forth by total strangers.

 

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=115631

 

 

Sock May Not Have Been Garrett's

Aug. 26, 2004

SALT LAKE CITY (AP / KSL News) -- Search and rescue crews hope to find a missing 12-year-old Boy Scout in the Uinta Mountains after finding what appeared to be the boys sock near where he was last seen.

 

There is some question as to whether the sock found Tuesday evening actually belonged to missing Boy Scout Garrett Bardsley.

 

Authorities are now trying to compare the sock with others.

 

Sheriff Dave Edmunds: Initially when we found the sock we were very pleased, because we thought it was definitely Garretts sock, and his mom was very sure it was. It still might be Garretts sock. We had a called from one of the people up here searching earlier. They indicated that they had taken some socks off, and it might have been one of theirs. We are now in the process of trying to determine whether or not it was Garretts sock or not.

 

 

 

 

Trained personnel today will focus their search on a boulder field and nearby areas where they found the sock Tuesday. Summit County deputies say the sock was found about a half-mile away from where he was last seen on Friday.

 

Garrett vanished after he went back to camp to change his clothes that got wet while he was fishing with his father.

 

Investigators remain hopeful, but say there's little chance that Garrett is still alive. They say he may have taken shelter from bad weather, where he may have succumbed to the elements.

 

Search dogs are being flown in again today to aid in the search.

 

Weather has been a factor. It has been raining most of the day.

 

(The Associated Press contributed to this story)

 

 

 

FYI-Update-please continue to prayfor Garret.

 

KSL News: Search for Missing Scout Turns to Recovery Effort

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=115065

 

Search for Missing Scout Turns to Recovery Effort Aug. 24, 2004(KSL News / AP) -- Trained search and rescue crews are meticulously combing the rugged terrain of the Uinta Mountains looking for a 12-year-old Boy Scout. An emotional father holds on to hope that his missing 12-year-old will be found. "We haven't given up hope. We don't want to leave Garret on this mountain," his father said. But after another night of frigid temperatures in the Uinta Mountains, Summit County officials admit chances of finding Garret Bardsley alive are slim. Summit County Sheriff Dave Edmunds says the focus of today's search will be cliff areas, under boulders and fallen logs. Edmunds says they believe Garrett Bardsley may have taken shelter when bad weather moved in. There's been no sign of the boy. And searchers are now preparing for the worst outcome. Crews will again brave cooler temperatures and maybe some rain as they resume the search for Garrett. Garrett disappeared Friday morning in the high Uintas, near the Mirror Lake area. That's where trained search teams were to meet at 7:00 this morning to begin the fifth day of searching. Summit County officials say because of rough conditions, and because the 12 year old didn't have any food or shelter, the chances he's survived this long are slim. Deputies say while Garrett had a very short distance between where he was last seen and the camp he was trying to reach, they say he may have become scared or even lost. Despite those doubts, the Bardsley family is determined to find Garrett. Kevin Bardsley/ Garrett's Father: "We haven't given up hope. We don't want to leave Garrett here on this mountain. We want to bring him home." Edmunds says the mission is now a recovery operation and says they believe they're looking for someone who's unresponsive. Only trained searchers will be used today to search for Garrett. Volunteers are no longer needed. (The Associated Press contributed to this story)

I called Utah National Parks Council to check on the lost Scout,Garret Bardsley. He has not been found. It is raining the temp is dropping and they expect snow tonight. All non-technical searchers are being pulled from the search due to the adverse weather. The situation is not good.

 

Please join me and members of Pack 30, Andrew Jackson Council (Jackson, MS) in praying for Garret and the searchers.

 

The Utah National Parks Council sent me the below e-mail today. There is a link for updates.

 

"Thank you all for your prayers and interest. The weather has turned colder here today and some volunteers are being sent home. At noon today the Summit County Sherrif stated that they had searched all the highly probable areas and were moving to a technical search phase, sending many volunteers homeward due to winterlike conditions.

You can read more at":

 

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?sid=114778&nid=5

 

Its Me:

 

It was "private" so I can't tell you! However, I will give you two hints:

 

1.) Colinus virginianus

 

2.) A good English Setter could "point" him out!

Twocubdad:

 

Thanks; I wasn't concerned about the legitimacy of the activity uniform until I received the private e-mail. Activity uniforms have always been an integral part of my scouting, both for Boy Scouts and Cubs.

 

The sock thing was bothering me because I had never seen an adult in Cub socks, except females in yellow and blue uniforms.

 

It is running about 95 degrees here during the day. We are doing a seven mile trek this weekend. I will probably clash, but be a little cooler!

 

I have received a private e-mail stating: "There is no activity uniform shirt in cub scouts. Cubs and Cub Leaders (according to the Cub Leader Handbook) were the entire uniform or no uniform at all. The cub t-shirts are not meant for wear with the rest of the cub uniform (see the uniform section of the Cub Scout Leader Handbook). That is not to say that the den or pack cannot have activities where they wear the same t-shirt and no uniform pants, belt socks or hat."

However, my Scout Shop (and the catalog list it) says there is an activity uniform shirt in cub scouts. The blue and yellow Cub Scout Activity Shirt is supposed to correspond to the red one for Boy Scouts. The Scout Shop also told me I could wear the blue and yellow socks (or red and green), as I am a Den Leader, that I am not sure about. You can see how red and green socks would clash with this shirt.

So now I ask not only are the socks "legal" but the activity shirt as well? Any info or opinions would be helpful.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/cgi/catalog

CUB SCOUT ACTIVITY SHIRT

 

Comfortable shirt is made of a 60% cotton/40% polyester blend. Treated with Dupont Teflon SR! for stain resistance. An embroidered Cub Scout logo applique is on the left chest. WW846/WW847$19.00 (Youth S,M,L) $20.50 (Adult S,M,L,XL) $22.50 (Adult 2X) $23.50 (Adult 3X)

For reference here is the Boy Scout version.

BOY SCOUT ACTIVITY SHIRT

 

SCOUT ACTIVITY SHIRT

Here's a Scouting uniform option that's comfortable during any activity. This cool, lightweight shirt is a soft 50% cotton/50% polyester blend. $18.00 (Youth S-L) $20.00 (Adult S-XL) $22.30 (Adult 2X)$24.45 (Adult 3X)

Is it "legal" for Cub Scout Leaders to wear Cub Scout blue and yellow socks, with the tan and green field uniform, and with the official Cub Scout yellow and blue "polo style" activity shirt and green uniform pants?

 

In shorts especially, the red topped green socks clash with the Cub Scout yellow and blue "polo style" activity shirt!

"U-N-C-L-E"

 

Nobody called anybody a liar. The accuracy of the info was called into question, fair enough.

 

Botton line: I'm still not wearing a New Class A/"Field" Uniform, if "it's yellow" and "it looks gay"!

FScouter-"There has been no accusation within this thread of anyone being a "liar". I see this term tossed out quite frequently in our society today, and frankly I find the accusation to be offensive."

 

Eamonn-"The mention of some memo that could have been wrong to start with doesn't make him right. Even if this was ever true, which I'm sure it never was."

 

I was not trying to be "offensive". If one gives a testimony and another says, "Even if this was ever true, which I'm sure it never was", that may not be "calling" the one a "liar", but it is certainly defacto implied! Perhaps I just interpreted the statement incorrectly. It's one thing to say, "based on my research I don't concur your facts" it's a totally different thing to say, "Even if this [your facts] was ever true, which I'm sure it [your facts] never was".

 

This can be spun any way you want to, but down here in Mississippi we call that calling someone a liar! We should all be careful when asserting that someone has promulgated an untruth and we are "sure" of it.

 

I am relatively new to this forum so I want to clarify my post. I wrote "According to the website" qualifying the "regulations" about uniforms. I believe Mike Walton after reviewing his homepage and extensive Scout history. He doesn't seem to have a hidden agenda, as a matter of fact, it's rather overt: promote scouting! He is rather conservative which I'm sure many find offensive.

 

A Scout is "Trustworthy". However Mike Walton has now been accused of lying about a memo. Should I now challenge Eamonn to a word duel, or send Mr. Walton an e-mail and let him do it?

 

Mike Walton does content that there are several "classes" of uniforms: Class A, Class B, etc. BSA may not acknowledge that to distance itself from military jargon. However, the fact is that here in the real world the "lay" uniform class definition is alive and well, without any help from Mike Walton. Almost every scouting function that I have attended over the last 26 years has been advertised with statements like: "Arrive at camp in Class A Uniform for opening ceremony, Class B uniform for daily activities, " etc. You start telling scouts to show up in their field uniforms and they'd have to run get a manual and look that up! Does acknowledging the simple "lay" uniform class system make us bad Scouts?

 

Let's just throw out the baby with bath water. I am glad others like Mr. Walton care enough to share information conducive to supporting Scouting.

 

As to the original question about a New Class A/"Field" Uniform, if "it's yellow" and "it looks gay", like TI_Lifeguard posted, my son and I will be scrounging all old uniform parts not just hats, neckerchiefs, and socks! We OFFICIALLY won't be wearing it while we protest!

 

 

 

scoutldr:

 

According to the website www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/uniform.htm it appears it's okay to mix old official hats, neckerchiefs, and socks, but not other uniform items.

 

Qoute: "BSA uniform policies does NOT allow for "mixing and matching" of new and previous versions of uniform parts, except for hats, neckerchiefs and socks. Old pants cannot be worn with the current khakitan uniform shirts; the older shirts cannot be worn with the current olive pants or shorts. [and]

The reference to all of this is found in several places, to start out, the BSA's Administration Manaul that your Council's Scout Executive and every District Executive has. It's also found in three different editions of _Scouting_ magazine, published in 1976, again in 1987 and once again in 1993 in the "News Briefs" column. It's also found in the BSA publications dealing with the Improved Scouting program; and finally, the Supply Division Director has sent five memos to the field in the past seventeen years reminding Scout Executives of the BSA's current policy dealing with uniforms and uniformity among its youth and adult members."

 

scoutldr:

 

I really don't know. The discussion was about tattoos, not dietary laws. It was only meant as a point of reference about tattoos. I personally am not bound by any dietary laws thanks to St. Peter's vision of the large canvas filled with all good things to eat, some of which were previously considered "unclean". I know of no New Testament reference for, or against tattoos.

 

The current trend of demonic and gothic tattoos do not convet a very positive message. Perhaps a good old fashioned heart shaped tattoo with "Mother" etched in the flesh would be a little more kosher!

 

Speaking of, "One man's cult is another man's religion. One man's mutilation..."

 

Leviticus 19:28

You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD.

 

 

I have lost Service Stars, hat pins, etc. in the past because those little clasp things popped off the pins. I found a little device that may be helpful if anyone is interested. The S.P. Grip can be found at the address below. A nifty solution to the more mundane uniform problems!

 

http://www.flyingtigerssurplus.com/c-12-p-253-id-12.html

 

S.P. Grip Pinback Made of chrome plated brass the S.P. Grip locking pinback locks to the back of your collectable pin with an allen set screw assuring lockability. 12 pinbacks per package (wrench included). Made in the USA. Sku: Price: SPG01 $5.99

 

Nick:

 

I have two unofficial "cheap" Campaign Hats and one Official "BSA-expensive" one. The cheap ones are serviceable and look just like the old ones for boys. They are not the best made though. They are both "cock-eyed" by a few degrees when placed on my head, so they are not perfectly centered. You have to kind of tweak them by rotating them to the off side, if that makes sense. I don't have this problem with my BSA hat so I know my head isn't warped! The cheap ones have vinyl sweatbands that don't absorb moisture, they get a little slick if you sweat. The leather sweatband of the Official hat adheres to my head and has better form. I believe the cheap hats would do to inexpensively mass outfit a troop even though they are not official. They are certainly more traditional and in my opinion are a lot better than any "official" made up troop ball cap! You will trade a small degree of quality, but not enough to be uncomfortable, for the price. The cheap hats really are okay, but they are not excellent. Below are two of the least expensive sources I've found.

 

+Jim

Domine ad quem ibimus

 

http://www.vtarmynavy.com/campaign_hats.htm

 

MH-06 Campaign or Drill Sergeants hats. Made of wool felt. New. $29.95. Sizes available are 7,7 1/8,7 1/4,7 3/8,7 1/2,7 5/8,73/4. Secure online ordering

 

http://www.sierrasurplus.com/campaignhat.html

 

Scout Campaign Hat Price: $34.95

A standard of scouts for generations. We've chosen the highest quality 100% wool felt hats from Stacy Adams / Dorfman Pacific. Distinctive styling and the highest quality craftmanship. 4 indents- 3" brim -Olive drab

See Head Diameter Sizes: Small fits 21 1/8" to 21 7/8" Medium fits 21 7/8" to 22 5/8" Large fits 22 5/8" to 23 1/2" X-large fits 23 1/2" to 24