TSS_Chris

From the Webelos leader stance I can definitely agree that scrapping the separate laws and oaths will be great. I would love to see the Lion program run in our council, this year alone I turned away 6 kindergarteners whose parents were sure their child could join and brought them to round-up despite the flyers saying grades 1-5. Sure they are rowdy and short attention spanned but if they integrated it like Tigers where it was one boy, one adult and packs could get a really strong kid oriented leader I am sure it would really improve our scouting numbers. In my experience the younger they start the longer they stay.

 

As far as lowering the maturity of the pack, I agree it can create an even larger gap between the Webelos. That is why we run our Webelos program almost completely separate from our Cubs. We meet to do opening flags and announcements but then work completely independently. We run different field trips and camping activities.

 

The work books are pretty stale and could use some sprucing up. A lot of the same material is covered in schools and the kids get bored. The belt loops could use some updates too. Geocaching is a perfectly acceptable belt loop for cubs as would a few other activities.

Not much. There is some on the Northern Star Council website for the 2012 program:

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/youthprograms/cubscouts/lioncubs.aspx

And some on Merit Badge.org for the 2009 program:

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Lion_Cub_Scouts

Reading #10 under the "Program" section here, it sounds to me like Lion Cubs is a Fight Club.

If you are spending the cash, there is a swiss army knife that has a USB drive in it. I have given that some of my Eagles as they went off to college.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-Flash-Drive-Silver/dp/B00A16V10G/ref=pd_sim_sg_3

They make 2 versions: One with just the drive so it's "airplane safe", and one where the USB drive is a "blade" in the executive-style knife. All the current versions are here.

http://www.victorinox.com/us/category/Collections/USB/1019?f=category&v=1/101/1019&m=add&

I can say, it's definitely a conversation piece when I pull it out in meetings when someone asks "Do you have a flash drive?"

I don't have a problem at all with the book stuff you refer to. We do present and talk about them in different ways than what is in the book. I do den leader training and instruct the new leaders to drop the den leader resource guide in the trash.

 

For example, the food pyramid or "myplate" stuff goes much better when you have two bagged lunches, one happy meal and one brown bag healthy lunch. Then explain that the happy meal has been on the counter for a week. The boys really react well to that.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/khcwkmdvl6gcx1i/Food%20Pyramids.pdf

One of my Council Pros told me that he attended a National training session this summer and the Cub program is going to change completely with the Oath / Law roll-out.

The goals of the committee rewriting the requirements are to get rid of a lot of the book work that's eithe crept into the program or been picked up by the schools and replace it with more outdoor activities. I can't find specific details.

The official timetable I've heard is 2015-16, but I can also tell you my DE advised us not to buy any extra books this year for the Pack than we need. Our council has a separate DE position for each district just to service Cub Packs ("Quality Unit Executive") , so I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be asked to pilot the new requirements next year.

Personally, I think going to one Oath and Law is a good thing. It removes some of the confusion with the current Promise: "Mr. Cubmaster? We brought some old clothes to our church to donate this weekend. Does that still count for us since we didn't give them to Goodwill?"

It sounds like the uniform questions could be moot in a year or two.

I don't have any details, but the chatter I'm hearing from my Council pros is that when the Boy Scout Oath and Law go into effect, there will also be and major changes to the rank requirements. I've heard changes to the uniform are being discussed to make it more "friendly" for the kids, possibly even going to a Girl-Scout style vest or sash.

The official timeline is for rollout in the 2015-16 program year. We provide the rank book with our dues. My DE advised me this fall not to buy any more books than we need for this year.

I wonder if BSA (Birmingham Small Arms Company) ever sued BSA over their trademark? At one time they were the largest motorcycle manufacturer and their optics are still popular.

It's a lot more lucrative than popcorn.

Cub Scouts and ADHD isn't a great mix. The medicine these kids are on puts them into near-sedation for the school day. By the time Scouts rolls around in the evening, that medicine has worn off, and the kid needs to get all that pent up energy out of his system. You get to deal with that tonight instead of Mom & Dad, so for that, they're grateful.

 

Group behavior techniques like the beads in a jar or the behavior candle work well when you've got a group of generally good kids who needs a gentle reminder to behave. From your description, it sounds like this Scout will almost always be the cause of the candle going out or the bead not going in the jar. When this happens, either everyone will begin to act out because the reward is gone, or the other Scouts will stage a version of a blanket party on the offender. You need to deal with the offender directly.

 

If a Scout engages in inappropriate behavior at one of our meetings, I pull the Scout aside (while maintaining 2 Deep leadership), and explain to him what he did wrong, and ask him to tell me how it would make him feel if someone did the same to him. Depending on the severity and frequency of the violation, I may ask him to apologize to the party he offended immediately, sit out for an activity, or I may separate him from the group and tell his parents to come pick him up immediately. When they arrive, I'll explain to the parents what he did, and tell them that he has to apologize sincerely before he is welcome at another meeting.

 

Yes, it's related to his disease, but if he's ever going to function in society, he needs to learn that his behavior can be hurtful to others.

 

If he is so affected by his condition that he can't function, then he should have a parent with him all the times, like a Tiger Scout.

We've got a lot of ADHD boys as well. Yes, keeping them active works, but there are a few who regularly push the limits. Occasionally, they need a reminder of these limits, otherwise other Scouts may leave the program because they don't like what he is getting away with.

Suing the BSA is a growth industry, most probably because the BSA has a history of taking legal positions that make juries want to see them suffer.

 

The 2010 Portland judgement against the BSA showed this. There were people within the organization who had knowledge of what was going on, swept it under the rug, then went to court with the "we can do what we want because of our Congressional charter" attitude and legal arguments as sound as those for the new registration fee increase.

 

The juries saw right through it, and hit them with $18.5 million in punitive damages. The judge saw through it too, and ordered the secret files to be released.

 

Here is the press release from the plaintiff's attorney on this latest case. Interesting that in this case, two professional Scouters are named as perpetrators.

http://blog.kosnoff.com/a-dozen-victims-identified-in-sex-abuse-case-against-boy-scouts-of-america/

 

Six months ago, this lawyer's news releases said he was representing 80 people against the BSA. Now it's 100.

 

This isn't going to be pretty.

http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/676458.pdf

Suing the BSA is a growth industry, most probably because the BSA has a history of taking legal positions that make juries want to see them suffer.

The 2010 Portland judgement against the BSA showed this. There were people within the organization who had knowledge of what was going on, swept it under the rug, then went to court with the "we can do what we want because of our Congressional charter" attitude and legal arguments as sound as those for the new registration fee increase.

The juries saw right through it, and hit them with $18.5 million in punitive damages. The judge saw through it too, and ordered the secret files to be released.

Here is the press release from the plaintiff's attorney on this latest case. Interesting that in this case, two professional Scouters are named as perpetrators.

http://blog.kosnoff.com/a-dozen-victims-identified-in-sex-abuse-case-against-boy-scouts-of-america/

Six months ago, this lawyer's news releases said he was representing 80 people against the BSA. Now it's 100.

This isn't going to be pretty.

So...it's been a while since I wrote the Original Post.

To follow up.

 

Sent hom 3000 flyers from the 13 schools we can recruit from. yes, that's a lot of flyers, a lot of schools and a lot of potential scouts.

 

 

Recruting nite I went in to it with NO EXISTING SCOUTS. Some are sort of interested,but wanted to see what happened with recruiting before deciding.

 

 

Brought two boy scouts as a bit of help to play games. 8 years of cub scouting displays and photos, leader books, sample uniforms, yadda yadda yadda.

Had received txts, emails, and phone calls from about 20 people.

 

4 scouts showed up. 2 tigers, 1 bear and a webelos 5th grader.

 

We talked about the minimum of 5 registered scouts and 5 registered adults.

 

we talked about options, things we could do, joining another pack, recruiting.

everyone went home with the idea to come the next week and bring a friend.

 

 

So tonight we tried again--a den mtg to play games with boys scouts, do Bobcat stuff, and talk to parents.

and we got 4 tigers, 1 wolf, 1 bear, 1 4th grade webelo and 1 5th grade webelo.

 

They decided that yes, they want to have a pack and keep it going.

Everyone went home with directions to do online training at myscouting.org

and come back prepared for adult leader training night next wednesday nite--we are going to try to make out a calendar for pack mtgs and events, and figure out which items can all be done together as a group, etc.

and for everyone to bring a friend.

 

right now we look pretty much like the local LDS packs in size and with only 1 or 3 in each grade. Whether that's good, bad or just different I'm not sure.

 

Sigh.

 

 

Work on building your program. Make it fun. Make sure you've got plenty of "bring a friend" activities on the calendar. If the boys get excited, their friends will want to join in.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither is a good Pack.

Cub Scouts and ADHD isn't a great mix. The medicine these kids are on puts them into near-sedation for the school day. By the time Scouts rolls around in the evening, that medicine has worn off, and the kid needs to get all that pent up energy out of his system. You get to deal with that tonight instead of Mom & Dad, so for that, they're grateful.

Group behavior techniques like the beads in a jar or the behavior candle work well when you've got a group of generally good kids who needs a gentle reminder to behave. From your description, it sounds like this Scout will almost always be the cause of the candle going out or the bead not going in the jar. When this happens, either everyone will begin to act out because the reward is gone, or the other Scouts will stage a version of a blanket party on the offender. You need to deal with the offender directly.

If a Scout engages in inappropriate behavior at one of our meetings, I pull the Scout aside (while maintaining 2 Deep leadership), and explain to him what he did wrong, and ask him to tell me how it would make him feel if someone did the same to him. Depending on the severity and frequency of the violation, I may ask him to apologize to the party he offended immediately, sit out for an activity, or I may separate him from the group and tell his parents to come pick him up immediately. When they arrive, I'll explain to the parents what he did, and tell them that he has to apologize sincerely before he is welcome at another meeting.

Yes, it's related to his disease, but if he's ever going to function in society, he needs to learn that his behavior can be hurtful to others.

If he is so affected by his condition that he can't function, then he should have a parent with him all the times, like a Tiger Scout.

Little slow here...

 

This is about cub scout recruiting flyers that are provided free of charge from the council to the unit......The hub bub is that the council is putting a low ball price on them...

 

 

Well folks, WE have always done our own flyers, WE have control as to what dollar amount is put on them, WE put them in our schools and WE do the boy talks.

 

 

So don't rely on Council to do it......You know your program and fees better than they do....You can be completely honest and upfront with the parents....

As Joseph Heller said, “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after youâ€Â

Little slow here...

 

This is about cub scout recruiting flyers that are provided free of charge from the council to the unit......The hub bub is that the council is putting a low ball price on them...

 

 

Well folks, WE have always done our own flyers, WE have control as to what dollar amount is put on them, WE put them in our schools and WE do the boy talks.

 

 

So don't rely on Council to do it......You know your program and fees better than they do....You can be completely honest and upfront with the parents....

On one hand, it's great that they are sending these, since our local school districts don't allow us to do boy talks. Sending home a piece of paper requires the personal approval of the Superintendent of Schools. She has an equal opportunity policy of rejecting everything.

I can be honest and upfront, but only if I get to the parents first. When the BSA makes an end run around me, that makes me mad.

"All I want is to be sure the BSA is disclosing that some units may have additional fees on top of the BSA registration."

 

Well it is clear that your council is not planning on communicating that little piece of info until AFTER they have the completed, and paid, applications in hand. Since your council head is trying to make himself look good for promotion purposes, he is doing all of this so he can toot his own horn on the number/increase of registrations in his council.

 

​Personally, I would not go along with his agenda. You are there for the boys, not to get him a promotion. I suggest being upfront with your prospective members. Lay out the total cost of being a member of BSA, AND a member of your unit. You might loose some folks, but then you might also loose them, plus piss them off big time, when you drop the rest of the bill on their heads six months down the line.

 

As for the analogies in the article, I found nothing "disingenuous" about any part of it. He clearly states - "What does your $24 buy?", and then goes on to state that it covers program materials and support for the LOCAL COUNCILS.. He also clearly states about his comparisons to other organizations - "it's not always comparing apples to apples". - and - "Note: The costs in bold are just the fee to join and don't include equipment, travel costs, uniforms, etc." Now I may be wrong, but isn't that EXACTLY what the $24 national BSA registration fee is? So, while he might not be comparing apples to apples, he is comparing the initial cost of simply REGISTERING in the different organizations.

4-H is the only one that's close, but these all seem to be part of a state university Ag extension outreach program, and don't seem to be self-supporting programs like the BSA. The Corpus Christi 4-H includes "educational materials" in their fee.

According to my budget, our year of programming costs about $180 per Scout (with the rate increase). This includes some giveaways, a handbook, and a Pinewood Derby car, as well as some program activities. We attempt to recoup about 40% of this in dues, with the remainder in fundraising. About $51 of this goes to our Council in registration and insurance fees.

If you added in most of the programming and a week of Day Camp, you'd be around $300-500 a year for the program. More if you want to attend resident camp. That is an apples-to-apples comparison.

So exactly what were you smoking or drinking last night TS?

 

Units have a cost of doing business.....They can't prevent us from collecting money to run our units...... Now granted there are units with $10 of thousands of dollars in the bank......But I suspect they are few and far between.

I wouldn't have thought anything of this announcement if it didn't reinforce what I've heard from my local Council. I had a 30 minute phone conversation with our COO about how he thinks it is a great idea to tell everyone that $6.50 is all you need to join Scouting. He is adamant that this is the way it must happen. He's upwardly mobile in the BSA management, so I'm guessing he's toeing the corporate line.

So far, I haven't seen the mailer yet. When I do, I'll post a copy of it here.

We charge dues. We also charge program fees. I know other Packs can cover all their expenses with fundraising. Our Pack hasn't been able to, and the parents don't want to. We're upfront about the costs, and we find ways to subsidize members who can't afford ours (or National's) dues.

All I want is to be sure the BSA is disclosing that some units may have additional fees on top of the BSA registration.

I don't understand why people are having so much trouble understanding Bryan's analogy/comparison. It's just that, a comparison. It's simple.

 

National does not and cannot control what individual troops charge for dues, or how much their monthly program costs, and National cannot know whether additional costs are covered by fundraising or by dues etc. So all Bryan can do is compare National's fee to other organizations' fees, and that's what he did.

 

Charging unit dues separately from registration fees is not a council policy, it is spelled out that way on BSA's recruiting literature; it's a national guideline.

Charging unit dues separately from registration fees is not a council policy, it is spelled out that way on BSA's recruiting literature[\quote]

 

@Scouter99: Where is this spelled out? I've got a stack of literature in front of me, and I've been to lots of my Council's training events, and I've never heard this before.

 

Byran's analogies are disingenuous. All of the examples he gives are fees for an educational program. The BSA's fees only cover an individual's registration. All educational materials, programming and awards are assessed on top of these fees. Plus, there may be additional mandatory fees assessed on top of this by the local Council for the unit as a whole or the membership. He points this out for 4-H, but doesn't do the same for the BSA.

 

What the BSA is doing is the same as if Little League international started publicizing that you can join Little League for just $18 to cover the national dues and insurance fees, then neglect to tell you that there may be additional costs by the local league.

I've been reading the announcement of the fee hike posted at Scouting Magazine. When I read between the lines, it sounds to me like National is trying to abolish unit dues.

Reading the announcement, to the untrained ear, it sounds like that $24 is all a Scout needs for a year of great programming, especially when you compare this to what "Participants of the 4-H Program in College Station, Texas, pay $25 a year, not including fees for individual activities".

The problem is, I'm hearing this from my local Council as well.

At a Saturday morning [del]DE morale crushing event[/del] fall recruiting seminar I was invited to last month, my Council's Field Director announced that the Council is starting a new marketing program. We've got trouble getting access to schools in our area, so Council will be doing some direct mail marketing to invite new Scouts. On the surface, this sounds great.

The catch: That marketing will tell Scouts for $6.50, they can register for Scouting. This is the $15 National Fee pro-rated for the 5 months until recharter.

If a unit wants to charge dues -- should they toe the official Council policy -- we are free to collect these after the Scout's registration is processed. Same with the fees for the coming recharter year. Oh, and the insurance fee levied by the council on top of the National registration fee.

Oh, and at our Fall Roundup, we're supposed to also distribute an Adult Application with every Youth Application, boosting the number of registered leaders. The marketing materials don't discuss how they will need to pay these fees as well.

I'm a member of the 10th largest Council in the US, and our Field Director came from the 4th largest. Something tells me this is a trial balloon from National. Anyone else out there seeing something similar?

Not sure if this is just me, but my account (as a Unit Key 3) shows a really pretty pie chart showing that 50% of my unit's leaders are trained. However, I can't find a way to get a list of the 50% who aren't trained, and the list of training courses they need.

The integrated approach is a nice idea, but it's not very useful and it's really pretty buggy. We'll see what happens with it in a few years (or whenever the BSA puts enough resources on this).

Thanks Tim in NJ. However, the Safe Scouting policy is still contradictory.

 

"One-on-one contact between adults and youth members prohibited. In any situation requiring a personal meeting, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths"

 

My read of this says the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults AND youth. This implies an adult is necessary and mandatory. It does not say "other adults OR youth".

 

Am I missing something?

Do it across the room, or at a picnic table across the clearing. The other youth and adults in attendance can see that nothing inappropriate is transpiring between the two of you, but the content of the conversation between the two of you is private.

As an MBC, you shouldn't need to discuss any personal issues one-on-one. Therefore this doesn't apply to you.

Don't overlook the power of action photography on Facebook.

 

"Here's what my son Jimmy did this weekend!"

 

You do have a copy of a medical form for everyone on your trips, right?

This sounds fishy to me.

Why would anybody... boy or parent.... want to be in two packs?

Why would the leaders want to play along?

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

The pack at my son's government school had their round-up last night. Our pack is chartered by our church & our church operates their own school.

I must admit it crossed my mind that last night to pop into the round-up to meet the leaders and see what they are doing...... primarily to see if I could learn any good ideas, but also I suppose in the back of my mind to consider moving my son if their pack looked much better..... I could go back to being just Dad. It would never even dawn on me to register him in both!

 

How does the council even deal with that? They can't even seem to figure out how to register me in my two positions of ADL & ACM

I currently hold the CM position for two Packs, and am MC for a Troop. No issues on the BSA's side there. I even get nice little dropdowns when I log into MyScouting to choose the unit I want to work with. (BTW, good idea of not popping onto that round-up last night. You don't get go back to being just Dad...)

As for youth, I know a youth can be multiple registered in a Troop and Crew, but I don't know if its possible for them to be multiple registered in two packs.

I've got a round table tonight. This is a good question to ask my DE to make progress towards my "asker of difficult questions" knot.

I could see the parents in the background cringing. Any thoughts on getting the parents engaged?????

 

 

Yes, if you offer backpacking, climbing, scuba, canoe trips, shotgun, on a regular basis, word will get around, and high adventure parents, district/community/friends of friends will volunteer for those trips. These are adults who want NO part of typical BSA monthly campouts.

 

As for regular recruiting:

 

Consider a Facebook, YouTube, and Web presence: We get a slow but steady stream of Scouts who transfer to us from standard Troops. I plan to add Google+ soon.

 

Also, we make sure that Scouts earning the 1st Class "tell a friend or lapsed Scout about Scouting" requirement, to bring their friend to a cool campout (they do NOT have to register). Figure another 10% per year there.

 

And, of course, anyone with access to a public or private school can bring in an extra twelve (12) to twenty registered Scouts per year using my 6th Grade Recruiting Presentation:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

A couple of comments for you:

Your Facebook page has numbers after it. That means it's not a "real" page in Facebook's eyes. Visit the page admin for your Troop's page on Facebook and set the "Page Info->Page Address" field. That will get rid of the numbers after your page address and make it easier to find in searches, plus set a few other flags on the FB system.

Before you go spending time on Google+, you should spend a few minutes on MyScouting.org and update your unit's pin information. If you're attracting dissatisfied boys from other area Troops, this should be an important method of lead generation for you.

@mashmaster: Yes, I have had those days. That is why our Pack holds our committee meetings at a bar.

 

Just so nobody gets confused, this isn't a Legion bar, an Elks, Eagles, Moose or any other type of social club. It's a regular ol' for-profit bar.

 

Our District Commissioner suggested the idea to me a few years ago when we were having trouble getting people to show up to committee meetings. We don't have that problem any more. I've had him, several Council professionals and members of our CO (a church) show up. I've shared beers with all of them, and even (personally) bought a few of them. We announce them on our email list, which goes to the Minister, as well as the church's general delivery mailbox, plus our DE and several other professionals and volunteers at Council.

 

The only time I've had a complaint was when our DE had another event immediately afterwards and couldn't change out of his field uniform. I've discussed this with my leadership team, both as a group and as a one-on-one. Nobody has objected to the meeting place. Several have objected to my changing back to a "dry" meeting place.

 

The Pack buys soft drinks and sometimes food. Adult beverages, if consumed, are purchased by the consumer. We don't wear uniforms to the meeting, and youth are not invited. If anyone says they have bring their kids, we move the meeting back to the church.

 

Do we get drunk? No. Tipsy? No. This one beer (or two if the meeting runs long) helps to get the conversation going. And like a college frat boy, the loose inhibitions of the environment have helped me take advantage of the situation and fill several volunteer roles. It's also helped our committee really gel, since this serves as the "beer around the campfire" that we can't have at an official Scouting event.

 

Is it hypocritical? No, not in my mind. We're adults discussing adult issues. Even though I'm CM, I'm not Superman. Sitting in a bar helps underline that point.

 

As for Scouting events: No, there is no drinking. Even when we do a "Scout Day" at a sports stadium, there is no drinking. That is a Pack policy. We have our kids to take care of. Our District Picnic has a BYOB policy, but it is also announced to be adults only.

 

Now, I'm off to my committee meeting. I'm anxious to see the fireworks when I get back...

I can say, having just come back from another productive meeting, it does get the job done.

My "Scouts" folder has:

Geocaching ($10, but totally worth it),

KG Free (Knot Guide is the paid version)

Leafsnap

SkyView

My Radar

Tides Planner

For administration / communications, I can't live without my apps for Google Docs (all my Pack Documents, including sign-up sheets are on there), MailChimp (mass email), and WordPress (website).

Looking at doing a subscription to Scoutbook for advancement tracking once their Pack plan is released. It's a webapp, not a native app though.

@mashmaster: Yes, I have had those days. That is why our Pack holds our committee meetings at a bar.

Just so nobody gets confused, this isn't a Legion bar, an Elks, Eagles, Moose or any other type of social club. It's a regular ol' for-profit bar.

Our District Commissioner suggested the idea to me a few years ago when we were having trouble getting people to show up to committee meetings. We don't have that problem any more. I've had him, several Council professionals and members of our CO (a church) show up. I've shared beers with all of them, and even (personally) bought a few of them. We announce them on our email list, which goes to the Minister, as well as the church's general delivery mailbox, plus our DE and several other professionals and volunteers at Council.

The only time I've had a complaint was when our DE had another event immediately afterwards and couldn't change out of his field uniform. I've discussed this with my leadership team, both as a group and as a one-on-one. Nobody has objected to the meeting place. Several have objected to my changing back to a "dry" meeting place.

The Pack buys soft drinks and sometimes food. Adult beverages, if consumed, are purchased by the consumer. We don't wear uniforms to the meeting, and youth are not invited. If anyone says they have bring their kids, we move the meeting back to the church.

Do we get drunk? No. Tipsy? No. This one beer (or two if the meeting runs long) helps to get the conversation going. And like a college frat boy, the loose inhibitions of the environment have helped me take advantage of the situation and fill several volunteer roles. It's also helped our committee really gel, since this serves as the "beer around the campfire" that we can't have at an official Scouting event.

Is it hypocritical? No, not in my mind. We're adults discussing adult issues. Even though I'm CM, I'm not Superman. Sitting in a bar helps underline that point.

As for Scouting events: No, there is no drinking. Even when we do a "Scout Day" at a sports stadium, there is no drinking. That is a Pack policy. We have our kids to take care of. Our District Picnic has a BYOB policy, but it is also announced to be adults only.

Now, I'm off to my committee meeting. I'm anxious to see the fireworks when I get back...