bokris

Hi All, I haven't been able to locate good information on the internet thus far, so I bring this question to you. My son is finishing his 1st year Webelos, and will be crossing over somewhere next Spring. The troop our CO has has been dwindling over the past several years and will be at 2 strong at crossover time. I am the current Cubmaster for the pack, and will be willing to take over the Scoutmaster role (it been in discussion for 3 years) at recharter time in December, 2012. My Webelos who will cross over in Spring will bring a new patrol of 8 kids. I have been told that a troop must have 5 kids at recharter in order to recharter. This comes from a fairly reliable source. Not the regulations. I can't find regulations on this. Does anyone know if there must be 5 Scouts in a troop at recharter time for a troop to recharter? Thanks.

Hi All, I am hosting a Cub O Ree for the district and have been looking for an online site in which I can create pack flag ribbons to distribute to the packs who participate. I am not lookng to only use the basic "participation" ribbon, but would like to create one that lists the event, date, etc. I have found a site for individual ribbons, but I'm looking for somebody that creates the large pack flag ribbons. Any help with knowledge of such a site is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Thanks, Dan... Also, Thank you, Nolesrule. You make a great point as well. I should have actually thought about that last year, as my son didn't make his Wolf by Blue/Gold, and the Cubmaster at the time had him wait until the end of the school year. It hurt and embarrassed him, and I didn't feel good about the decision when it was all said and done. I'm Cubmaster now, and want to improve the program in areas which I can improve, and didn't think about the immediacy of the award. I'm glad this has been processed through, so that I can make the changes in the practice prior to the delay of the "advancement award" as opposed to it being an afterthought... Thanks again!

I appreciate your helping with this clarification, Scoutnut. Prior to this morning, I had not really begun to analyze the concepts,and an email I received from a den leader prompted this thought process. With your thoughts, I believe the Blue/Gold event we are holding will be awarding those who have earned their rank specific award, and those who have not will, of course be awarded (if earned0 at the end of this school year. If they have not earned it, then it will not be awarded, however an "end of school year" celebration may include a "crossover" into the next phase of their Cub Scout career, whether the award be given or not (ie. the Bears will "crossover into the WEBLOS I). One of my goals this year is the creation of more ceremony within our pack, and I needed the clarification and resolve within myself prior to any type of ceremony being held. Thanks for the help in this area...

The question is, though, are they "doing Bear things", or are they working on tasks specific for the accomplishment of the rank requirements? How does one justify the honor of wearing the emblem of a rank in which they haven't yet achieved? The rank award is very much an award for having participated in the past year's tasks, and even if they don't earn it, they move up based on grade/age anyway. This goes in alignment with "Do your Best", however what about those that didn't "do their best, and cruised through the year, but get to have the same joy of advancement as those who did "do their best". If the rank hasn't been completed over the course of the year, should it be awarded anyway, as they have changed grades, or is the patch left off of the uniform for the year in which they didn't accomplish the tasks? Some more to chew on... (I know it shouldn't be that deep, but I'm struggling through this process within myself at this time)

When is a Bear a Bear? Would it be when the child enters 3rd grade? I dont think so. As I have been working towards the Blue/Gold ceremony, Ive been thinking these thoughts. My 3rd grade Bear badge candidates are qualified to receive their Bear badge, and at the ceremony, I will be having my den leader presenting them as candidates eligible for the Bear rank. Prior to this crossover from candidate to Bear, they have been technically Wolves in Bear training throughout their 3rd grade year. They will be Bears at the end of the crossover, but not be WEBLO I candidates in training until the end of this school year and through their 4th grade year until they have become eligible for admission into the WEBLOS I rank. They may be in the WEBLOS den throughout their 4th grade year in preparation for WEBLOS I rank, but, alas, they are not WEBLOS I until they have earned this title. I have been misnaming the ranks throughout my scouter career, and these thought have just come to mind. The boys are not the rank in which their den is until they have earned the rank through the steps required. Does this mean that the boys shouldnt wear their rank neckerchief until they have earned their rank. If so, should they be wearing their previous years neckerchief until they have earned the title in which they have been working? If this is the case, should Tiger cub candidates not be wearing their Tiger neckerchief until they have earned the Tiger, and wear it over the course of the year until they have worked through the steps to earn their Wolf? At which time, throughout their 3rd grade year, should they not continue to wear the Wolf neckerchief until they attain their requirements for candidacy into the Bear rank? With all of this, is the new boy who enters in the 3rd grade not only a Bobcat (once they have earned this status) until they complete their Bear rank requirements? And then, how does age play into all of this? Ive discovered this morning that I must sort this all out within my head before I can logically explain to my den leaders, parents and the kids. I hope I havent shaken leaders thought processes everywhere with these questions! Or maybe, I hope I have... (This message has been edited by bokris)

I appreciate all of you guys' feedback. I've found it useful and it has opened my eyes to other options. This is what I enjoy about this site, is that there is so much knowledge here, and I don't have anyone around my area who I have identified as a mentor. When my son and I came into the pack, there were only 5 boys and the now ex-cubmaster. They didn't follow the book, nor did they do any of the lessons. It was a place to hang out on Monday nights. I introduced the concept of using the various den handbooks in an effort for the boys to work towards something. We did not have an executive team, nor did we have an active COR. We still don't have a unit commissioner, and the DE had pretty much turned her back on the pack, seemingly resigned for the pack to fail. It has only been over the past year that our pack has grown to he point of recognition. I have read all that I could outside of my paid job about how to create a functioning pack, and have created, using others' ideas in the creation of this pack. I recruited every den leader and every executive team member, with the only recruit I can't claim being the ex-Cubmaster. We now have a full executive team, den leaders and assistants for every den, and I only lack an assistant Cubmaster and a unit commissioner. We earned quality unit in 2009, as well as recently found out we earned it in 2010 as well. I always thought Blue and Gold was the crossover point, and the WEBLOS II's left the pack afterward. Chalk it up to my ignorance. Scoutnut, I appreciate your feedback, however I'm not sure you got my last point in my IP, and I didn't go into much detail. The WEBLOS II den leaders are the fathers of the boys in the den, who were the initial members of the pack when I joined. As I stated, they didn't even use the book or work towards anything when we got there. They could have been called the "Let's hang out and go camping group" instead of cub scouts. They had never heard of youth protection or the guide to safe scouting. I introduced these concepts as well. I'm not sure how the group remained chartered, actually. This group has been resistant to the changes occurring in the pack, and still don't like the bookwork, nor do they like to be spoken to about it. The WEBLOS II's, who I try to present as the "youth leaders;" the ones who set the example are running in and out of other den meetings, slamming doors and being a general disruption. Why did I stay with this pack? Because my son was extremely shy and he made friends of the boys in his den when we joined, as well as friends with the boys who are now WEBLOS II. I chose rather than to pull him out, to work towards making the pack functional, safe and in lines with the scouting program rather than start him over in another unfamiliar group. This is why I've worked toward the changes. We now have a great group of multi-talented, caring parents and boys who truly love scouting and the group from the beginning are within their last 3 months of graduating our program. I really thought that the Blue/Gold marked the transitional point, as this is what has happened the previous two years. The WEBLOS have "traditionally" crossed over to the Boy Scout troop of their choosing, and the troop has welcomed them in after the Blue/Gold. This is what I thought was supposed to be the natural course of things. I appreciate all of the feedback regarding this issue, and have decided to invite troops to visit us over the next few months, as the WEBLOS II's have been hesitant to visit the troops. This way, not only will this group of WEBLOS II's get to meet some different troops, but the WEBLOS I's, as well as the younger dens. I'll also be communicating outings we have coming up as a pack with our WEBLOS II's, making sure they are still welcome, and letting them know of the various troop activities upcoming that I am aware based on the relationships I'm forming at district roundtable. Thanks guys!

If you guys haven't begun your "Leave No Trace" information yet, have a brief discussion on this topic from your Tiger Cub handbook. I let the boys each take turns with answering questions about front country guidelines; what each front country statement means to them, and give and example of why it's important. Follow this up with a photocopied printout of the pledge for each to sign, and have them practice the principles around the scout meeting place. This is a nice beginning sequence to an upcoming hike and when the hike comes, revisit the pledges made with your den.

Over the past 2 months, I have become Cubmaster. Our old Cubmaster's son is a WEBLOS II, and the den he is in hasn't been active in completing achievements, but rather "hanging out" over the past year. I haven't had any control over the situation, other than prompting the Cubmaster to hold the den accountable for their responsibilities. This has not happened. Since becoming Cubmaster, I have asked that the den provide me dates of achievements, along with specific achievements earned if the den leaders plan to do arrow of light at the Blue/Gold and crossover ceremony. They have not done so, and therefore I have communicated that I will not be able to allow Arrow of Light to take place. I have also asked that the den provide me with a troop they plan to cross over into, as they do not want to crossover into the troop associated with our pack (a different story altogether). I have provided a list of troops for their review, offered to schedule meetings with the troops and offered to attend the meetings with the den and the leaders/parents. I have gotten no response, other than "we're looking into it." The ex-Cubmaster told me at the last meeting that I could "just set up our home troop for the crossover, but the boys won't actually go into the troop." I told him that I would think about it, but I don't like this idea, as it lacks integrity in my opinion. I have given them another week to make a decision on whether they plan to crossover or not, as well as providing me a troop in which they plan to crossover into. Otherwise, I do not believe a crossover is appropriate, as there is nowhere for which these boys will be "crossing over." This is the bigger picture: The younger dens look forward to this event, as our pack has not had ceremonies until I came in a few years back, and one of my goals was to integrate ceremonies into the pack. I have served as outings coordinator, but I have created various ceremonies and it has become a time for the kids to get excited over. They look forward to them immensely. I also have spoken regularly to the pack about the upper dens being the "peer leaders" (not formally, but they set the example for the younger ones). Not having any type of transitional ceremony for the WEBLOS II's will be a disappointment to the WEBLOS II children, who have been in the pack since Tiger cubs, but it will also disappoint the younger dens, who look forward to this celebration yearly. Are there any suggestions for: 1- an appropriate transitional ceremony for the WEBLOS II's in the above-described situation 2- Some parting token in which to say "thank you" to the boys for being a part of our pack (this may be poorly worded, but you get the point) 3- a diplomatic way to work with the den leaders/ex-Cubmaster so that the parting doesn't end poorly, and upset the children. BTW... A side issue is that the WEBLOS II leaders, ex-Cubmaster and the boys want to continue to participate in pack events after the Blue/Gold and (non)"crossover". How do I gently move them on, as they have truly become a distraction to the dens who are working on various projects?

The opinions I have read on this subject are as varied as the ones in our executive team meeting. I would have never realized the emotion behind this subject, and I value everyone's feedback. We have, indeed reached out to the CO on several occasions in many various forms; maintaining the prayer garden, helping with their pantry by means of donating all of the food for scouting contributions (over 500 canned goods per year), cleaning the area and bathrooms after each use, and attempting to maintain responsible behavior as a scout should in behalf of the church and our pack. The CO has offered us use of the classrooms, stating that they would clean out their storage from the classrooms (as their youth program has disappeared), but has not honored this commitment. We are also told that the church would leave the heat on 60, and the ac on 72 for our use, however the heat and air is off when we arrive, and we've had meetings in fall/spring in which the room read 88 degrees, and winter temps as low as 40 degrees. We do not have anyone who are members in the church, however we do participate in scout Sunday, support their pumpkin patch fundraiser,Christmas Tree fundraiser, and other ministries as we are allowed. I believe in fruitful relationships, and at times, feel there is not reciprocation in the process. I place expectations on the pack and onto my family to do for others without expecting others to return the offer. This situation has been tricky, as I've not had experience from which to draw. I try not to be a complainer, as I've grown up not expecting help from others, but appreciating help when it is offered, and I've worked with my children using this concept. I also believe in straight forward, honest communication as opposed to passivity in interactions. It' difficult to know how to approach situations at times, and I've had no strong mentors in scouts as I've had in other areas of my life. This is why I appreciate this forum. It offers multiple opinions and insights, which may vary, but that's ok. There is a universal collected wisdom within this site and I'm good at filtering information, so I gain much from the virtual conversation. I want to thank everyone who has offered insight of all types thus far, as whether the insight is agreed with or not, providing feedback offers care and concern, which helps sustain and strengthen my faith in the scouting program. The children not only benefit from this program, but I benefit as well, and have found solace when I begin to be disheartened at times. Again; thank you all!(This message has been edited by bokris)

Our pack has a peppered history. We're a 26 year old veteran pack that was at the verge of collapse 3.5 years ago when I came in. I recruited leaders to include a full committee and all dens filled with leaders, assistants, and other parent supports. The church has been used to slackness, and when they saw the revitalization, I believe they began taking notice, and now "want a share" of the success at our expense. We could possibly afford it, at the expense of some of our programming, and I'm torn, as a portion of me falls in line with scouts being "fiscally responsible" and "service oriented," but I feel the CO has undertaken a responsibility in continuing to charter us. We can't remove ourselves, as if we back out, we lose our number and veteran status, but the CO continues to verbalize commitment (with a price). The "elders" won't let us in on the budget meeting, feeling we "shouldn't be overly involved in their business," so we are in the dark regarding their fiscal state. Our committee wants to have a major meeting with the "elders," and our treasurer is a bankruptcy attorney who wears his feelings on his sleeve and has no qualms with saying whatever he is feeling at the time, which concerns me, however he feels he must be a part of this meeting. I appreciate the thought of getting an agreement in writing, as this is in my same line of thought, and will have to see how that plays out. The COR seems to be trying to appease both sides of the situation, and approaches me with the sugary voice of passivity, and I continue to question what exactly the purpose of the DE is, as I would have imagined she being an advocate for the pack and liaison between council and the district, however she seems primarily concerned in her bottom line numbers, and not necessarily in the functioning of the units (kind of would think this goes hand in hand, but she's young and inexperienced in the professional world). It has been an interesting dynamic throughout the whole course of events, to say the least...

We are a cub scout pack of approximately 30 boys. At the beginning of the year, I was approached by a church member stating that the church was having some financial issues. Later our COR approached, asking if we'd consider paying $50 per month to the church for "utility usage." I told him that I'd need to run this by the executive committee, however I'd be much more in favor of joint fundraisers, benefitting both the pack and the church. We had one; a spaghetti dinner and karaoke night, generating $400, and splitting the profits. The church supplied the food, we supplied the Karaoke equipment, and presoldtickets to the event. Everybody won. Today, I was approached again by the COR asking if we were still going to give $50 per month (which I'd run by the committee, and there wwere strong opinions both ways regarding the request. I reminded the COR of the option of joint fundraisers as an alternative, and asked whether the church could still afford to sponsor us. The COR was adament that the church was very willing to continue to charter us, but was still interested in the money as well. How do others feel about this, as our DE is avoiding conversation, and the council continues to refer us back to the DE?

I work towards meeting each parent, greeting them and building rapport each meeting. As the parents get to know me, then I find it much easier to approach them about asking for help. Building and maintaining a solid relationship is key to receiving support. I also realize that some parents may not want to do what I ask, but will volunteer in other ways. This can be frustrating, if you are looking for a specific task to be accomplished. However, instead of fighting with them over what you need to do instead of what they want to do, embrace their help. They will be motivated to do what they want more so then what you might want from them. Also, realize, some parents just don't want to commit to a position... create committees... example, finance committee, or fund-raising committee for example. In any group, a leader will emerge, and it may not be the one you were expecting from the onset.