WildernesStudent

So, like most women theres nothing I love better then taking a nice shower or bath or whatever and I love the different kind of scents you can get with shampoos and soaps especially the kind that leave you smelling good. J Well I heard fairly recently that its dangerous to go hiking/camping/backpacking when you smell either floral (honey suckle, violet, sweet pea, lavender) or like food (peach, wild berry, strawberry, chocolate, vanilla honey etc, watermelon) because of wild animals. Now granted I wouldnt rub steak all over my body before camping in bear countrybut from what Im hearing it almost sounds like these body washes and shampoos can attract animals, especially those with good smell like bears. I do know from previous experience that if I have used some kinds of soap I seem to attract more insects, specifically mosquitoesI think it might be because of the sugary sweet smell (Ive had the feeling before like Ive bathed in sugar and water with all the bites Ive gotten). But would something like that actually attract a larger animal like a bear

Hmm so I was wondering if anyone on here might know whats going on.

I think I mentioned that I have a bad knee I hurt it several years ago in a judo accidentwe were practicing taking someone down a move where you push the persons knee backwards and their heel forward at the same timeresulting in them falling over. We werent supposed to actually do it (because of possible injuries) by my partner got a little too excited and the next thing I know I was lying on my back. She did forced my knee backwards and hit hurt a lotI limped around the rest of the day but it didnt swell or anything so I forgot about it. Since then every now and then Ive had random pain in that knee and weakness but in normal day-to-day activities it really doesnt bother me. Well, once I got to school and started hiking I noticed that my knee would get tired really fast and give out resulting in me tripping myselfit doesnt do well especially on going down hills. When I tired getting into running last semester it did start to hurt a lot and it seemed to get even more unstable I would be walking in what I knew to be a straight line but it felt like my entire knee was pulling toward the rightalmost like it was trying to dislocate itself. I stopped and havent had much problem with it until this summer. I was in they gym about to use one of those machines where you put weights on it and then sitting in the seat you lift the bar (weights on each end) with your legsI was attempting to get on the machine for the first time (quite an adventureI am starting to think most of these machines were meant for people who are six ft. or taller) and naturally had a klutzy moment and completely smashed my knee into the metal side where of course there was a giant head of a screw poking out. Hurt like nuts, but being determined I went a head and did the exercisethinking back on it, it probably wasnt a good ideamy knee was in agony the entire exercise.

Now the other day I was back at the gym and did the same exerciseI never put to much weight on it (10 pounds for each leg) but though my other knee was fine my bad knee felt like it was straining. Its been doing the same thing when I attempt lunges (I do lunges with 10lb weights in each hand) keeps feeling like its going to give out or that its straining. After this work out my knee did ache and when I got back to my room I realized it had swollen up a little bit right below the kneecapI put ice on which helps the hurting, but it still ached and was stiff the rest of the day.

 

So I suppose I just wanted a few ideas of what this might possibly if anyone had even the slightest clue. I do plan on going to the doctor but it wont be possible until after camp ends, so were look at another three weeks.

I go to the gym again tonight though Im not sure what Ill do. I always stretch for about 15-20 minutes before I exercise do I need to stretch more? Do I need less weight on my machines? I was told by someone that we should be able to hold up our body weight with our legsnow I dont weigh that much but I have no intention of trying those kind of machines with my knee behaving as it is (you know the kind where you lay at an angle your feet against a flat plate that moves the weights and if you cant move them theres the danger of wellbeing squished).

 

I had thought that I would just get a brace and deal with it but Im concerned that there might be something seriously wrong and you only get two knees. J

 

Hehe,

Weight is actually not one of my concerns (amazing I think considering I am an American female!) I am a college student, therefore, I can't afford snack food, munchies or fast food and am I at the mercy of the school cafiteria...meaning when I do eat I don't have problems with overeating (lost a lot of weight freshman year...actually believe my stomach shrunk a bit)My parents were health nuts growing up too, so I didn't grow up in a home with chips, soda etc. When I go for snack food I go for nuts (Love the new Planters NUT-rition Energy Mix), yogurt, plumbs etc. I don't like sitting down to a big meal weighs me down...especially if I plan on doing hiking or something. I eat stirfry and cook a bit with some of the lighter meats (fish, chicken every now and then some pork). I don't really believe in the traditional meals, I usually try to eat a good breakfast (some kind of bread, fresh fruit and some OJ) but other then that I usually eat small 'meals' throughout the day: a handful of nuts, a thing of yogurt, tuna or chicken salad etc... That mixed with my excercising and new hobbies (hiking and such) I feel pretty darn good! Though, I might add, I do have a weakness for dark chocolate

 

Hey, while I'm rambling about food, anyone know of any kind of traimix that does not have sunflower seeds in it? It seems all the ones my store provide have sunflower seeds.

Hmmm, yeah, I will have to check into some of those things...

I had started running several months back...figured it was a good way as any to get into shape. Running on roads and such really killed my knees and ankels so I was told to run on grass like a soccor field. This worked for a while, but eventually it too started murdering my knees to the point where while walking my bad knee kept trying to pop out of the socket or would suddenly give out. So, I gave up running, I was told to get a knee brace for hiking backpacking and such...haven't gotten around to it yet but really hiking doesn't bother it.

So, some of you might know, but I will be backpacking and doing a lot of hiking starting in August. I hike all the time but the idea of backpacking scares me to death so Ive been trying to get in condition for itwhatever that may be. I thought someone might have some exercising tips? So far Ive been doing palates mostly concentrating on my core especially my back muscles (my chiropractor told me to do this for my back problems). I do these exercises three days a week as well as lunges with weights. Two days a week Ive been riding my bike for about 30 min. followed by leg exercises. Also, cause I am working at a camp I am constantly running everywhere chasing kids, animals, running from bees etc. I also have been doing a lot of lifting too. Oh and on weekends I hit the gymmostly do racket ball Ive tried one of the leg machines but it irritates my bad knee. Anyways, sound good? Do I need to be doing anything else?

Hey all!

 

So, I haven't been on in a while because I've been busy working at camps and such (love it!) but I had a quick question. A couple of us have talked about going canoeing but every lake around here (which would be North East GA) seems to be dry or severely low. Not that we have had much time to visit each one (apparently there are quite a few). Does anyone know of a lake up here that is still ok to canoe in?

 

Thanks!

 

So, Gwd-scouter, I am also from the South and actually had no idea that palmetto bugs existed until I read your post (thank you so much). My only comfort now is knowing that I have a dome tent and as long as I zipper it no bugs can get in! On the other hand, last time I went camping I found a beetle in my sleeping bag (that is after I had been in it a while...*shudders*) and the tent had been closed for a while, which means it probably rode in on someone (like moi).

 

As for snakes being poisonous I guess they aren't...at least people eat even the venomous ones down here (though I personally haven't tried it...heard is tastes like chicken). Ah, the wonders of the South!

I was just wondering if anyone had seen this show on the Discovery channel and what you thought about it. I watched an episode and it seemed stupid to me..."let's take people from the city who have never been outside before and make them live in the middle of nowhere in Alaska and we could film it!!" yeah...great idea.

 

watch episodes @

 

http://video.discovery.com/#(This message has been edited by WildernesStudent)

You know I have never had a problem with snakes. Now it's one thing if I didn't know a snake was there and it pops out in front of me, but if I'm walking on the trail and I see a snake I just go around it. I think they're kinda cool actually, sspecially the poisonous ones! I used to say that I'd rather get bit by a snake then stung by a bee or wasp of course I used to have an irrational fear of stinging insects...I'm working on it now. Though...it might be cool to be bit by a snake just once...think of the inspiration it would give you!

Hmm Interesting.

 

I dont know I think it just takes time and getting used to bugs. Take me for example, I used to never go outsideseriously I am not kidding. When I went outside it was to go from the house to the car or to the house from the car. Now, I practically live outside! You cant keep me from hiking, canoeing, or camping and we all know there are loads of bugs when doing that! Now, I do admit that I really dont like bugs and am actually terrified of the kind that sting (bees, wasps, hornetsick) but I think when it hit me that bugs are outside and I will see them and of course the more I did things outside and the more I did see them I got used to it.

 

Of course you have to realize that if a kid joins scouts and his former hobbies have been playing videogames and he hasnt come into contact with many insects then he might be cautious at first. Maybe he wont ever get over it (I still wont sleep if there is even one bug in my tentthats just how I am.)

 

Maybe I should mention that this ins't for a troop. These activities would be for college age people.

I dont think that everyone should be required to carry an EpiPen in their first aid kit its situational depending on where you are going (away from civilization), whos going (someone who can use it or who needs it) etc. As is aid were not even required to have a first aid kit much less carry EpiPens in one, but were doing it because of the situations we know well be in. Were also considering it because of the training the officers haveif they werent WFRs we probably wouldnt be have thought about carrying syringes filled with epinephrine much less on how to get them with the purpose being that we might have to use them. Also, officers in our club arent required to be certified in anything but most are just in case. It is true that only about 1 in 100 people die from a bee sting and they are usually over the age of 26 (you knowthe elderlyhehe sorry, couldnt resist . But you have to keep in mind that most people get help within minutes of being stung (some people dont even have to use an EpiPen, they simply get into the car in go to the ER) the whole point of an EpiPen is to buy more time for a person to get medical help (because it is kinda hard to call 911 when you are unconscious). Keeping in mind that as an outdoor club we will be in the woods a lot (were talking about hiking several miles, camping, rock climbing etc...) and away from immediate medical attention buying more time for a person who stops breathing really doesnt seem like a bad idea . Im actually very surprised that the BSA doesnt require scout leaders to know at least WFA (I kinda would like to know why) I do know that most likely if a child is stung (even if they are allergic) though they tend to have worse reactions they most likely wont die (kids are amazing).

 

But yeah, I dont think someone who isnt trained to use an EpiPen should unless in extreme emergency but for those who are certified using one shouldnt be a big deal but they key with that is to use one you have to have one first.

 

Would love to keep going but I have a cake in the oven

"Wilderness student. My point I was working toward is that to carry every medication t=you might need for any possible emergency is not practical, especially for your level of experience."

 

Carrying every medication one might need isn't practical believe me I know (I have a history of diabetes in my family and you don't see me carrying around insulin just in case) I do want to state though that one of the reasons the club has been thinking about this is because of their training (While I might not have experience remember that everyone else is a certified WFR). I know at least four people that are allergic to bee stings and yes they do carry their own EpiPens with them but given that you are hiking with a larger group (20 or so people) I don't think it would be to impractical to carry some 'just in case'. Lots of things can trigger it: if you've been stung several times before who's to say that this one time (of course when you are away from a hospital. which would be my luck) might not be the 'overdose' people don't build up an immunity to bee venom it gets worse. What if someone's runs into a bee or a hornet nest? (I've seen it happen) even if you've been stung a couple times before without a reaction, this amount of venom is dangerous (assuming around 2-300 stings) and some people can have a reaction to 8 stings when they haven't had one to 4-6.

 

Of course there are negative sides to everything and I plan on bringing some of them up in the meeting next time. One, of course, being how many EpiPens to take. Giving someone a shot of epinephrine only bys you like what? 10-20 minutes max and then you have a second reaction (which is usually worse then the first because of the epinephrine) and some people even have a third reaction (which probably really sucks bad for them). So what do you do? Give them Benadryl a shot of epinephrine and start evac and then stab them again (the second shot btw lasts a shorter amount of time then the first one). That, to me at least, doesn't sound practical or even helpful...but then again not breathing is kind of bad too.

 

Personally, I would say stock up on Benadryl (I take it with me on long hikes...after reactions I've had to some 'normal' bug bites I really don't want to be stung by something with venom in it).

 

We figured out btw that we can get EpiPens legally from a licensed MD. The risks in using it of course is if a person has a reaction to the epinephrine itself (which actually is impossible people are technically allergic to one of the antioxidants that's mixed with the epinephrine...fun fact!) but I suppose that's when training comes in (not that I would know about that yet) from what I'm hearing from people training pretty much dictates that you must do 'something' in an emergency (in this case whether you give them Benadryl or anything else) Some people don't actually develop symptoms for a couple hours or even a day others can go into shock within 1-2 minutes (I saw it happen in 2 minutes once...will never forget it!) and then I suppose It's up to your training and discretion...I get the feeling that when it comes to all the legal crap if someone is lying there not breathing you're not going to think about it, your gonna stab the hell out of 'em!

 

"I am unsure what the dimemma is here? Are you aware of someone in your group who is highly allergic to bee venom, or for some other reason requires to have epinephrine on hand? If so wouldn't they have a prescription and epi-pens on them?"

 

BobWhite I am confused by what you mean?

 

What I'm trying to say is what if someone who has never been stung before gets stung and has a reaction....I know that I have never been stung by a bee I hate any kind of bugs and avoid them (also, I have lots of relatives who are allergic to bees in my family). If I've never been stung then I wouldn't know if I were allergic or not util I started having an allergic reaction and then it's kinda to late to be thinking about it. What we were thinking of was that most people don't think about getting stung when hiking and quite a few people have never been stung before...we won't know everyone who comes hiking with us (probably around 28 people) and since we are all 'peer' hikers we can't very well ask people for medical information. Yes, If someone knows they're allergic they should bring an EpiPen in case they get stung but most people don't thing "hey, I've never been stung before I should take some benadryl and an EpiPen just in case!"

 

I think part of the dilemma is the legal side of things as I said we aren't required to have a first aid kit but if someone gets hurt as a certified WFR you would be the one to try to help them and in case that happens we want a first aid kit. We aren't going to be advertising this info to everyone on the hike...they can take care of their own scratches scrapes and blisters...this would be in case of real emergency (severe bleeding, trauma, broken bones etc...) and anaphylactic shock rates under real emergency. I suppose are real question could be if you are certifed and don't do anything to help someone can't you be held liable...isn't there a law of action one must take? However, if this action requires giving an EpiPen to someone who has never been stung before goes wrong (like they are allergic to the epinephrine) and they die you could be held liable too.

 

I do know that Benadryl will be in our kit at least but if you are five to eight miles away from help how much good would that actually do? Also, EpiPens actually only work for a while until second reaction so you would have to evac anyways you just might have more time to play with.

 

As I said we never really finalized what we were doing in the meeting...got to complicated. Does anyone on here know the laws of things like this in GA?

 

Dilemma

 

Soyou are out hiking with a bunch of people and someone gets stung by a bee. Within moments the person is having trouble breathing and other symptoms of anaphylactic shock are evident (I wasnt actually trying to be poetic here I simply forget the other symptoms) As everyone turns to the victim asking where they keep their EpiPen the person looks at them with eyes wide with panic and says I dont carry one, Ive never been stung beforeI didnt know I was allergic! (Oh crap) what do you do?

 

My question is something the oc officers (those who are already certified that is) have been talking about for a while. While WFRs are trained to use EpiPens can they actually legally obtain and carry them in case of extreme emergency?

 

We are in the process of reorganizing, regrouping and re-buying things for the clubs first aid kit. Now, the club hasnt had one in years (and I mean years!) because anyone who comes with us comes at their own risk we are not held responsible for anyone as noone is technically a guide and we are all peer hikers (yadda yadda yadda). Because of this we arent required to have anything for anyone (so tough luck!) however since the majority are WFRs a first aid kit has been deemed a necessityafter all peers or not if someone gets hurt the person with the most medical training would naturally step in and to protect their own interests they would rather have a first aid kit. Our logic was its one thing for someone who knows they are allergic to bees to bring an EpiPen and have someone (who knows how obviously) use it in the event that they cant. But can we carry epinephrine in the kit in the event that someone who has never been stung before has a reaction?

 

There are tons of legal stuff surrounding this I am surebut anyone know an answer? Granted, it would be different if you were an adult leader with children, you would have wavers, and medical forms and such...keep in mind we don't have any of that...Our options all seem to come to a dilemma.

If we don't have an EpiPen and are out in the middle of nowhere they most likely will die.

If we give them epinephrine (i like using that word...makes me feel smart...just don't ask me to pronounce it!) and it isn't administered right or there are complications or something they could also die.

I've seen people starting to go into anaphylactic shock before it's not a pretty sight and no one just stands there and does nothing (especially those who have advanced first aid training) the only problem is unless you can get them to the ER or unless you have an EpiPen you really can't do much for them....I don't know.

 

We had heard that it is possible for organizations (such as ours) to obtain EpiPens from a licensed physician who would give them to us at their own discretion (and most likey would get the hot pot if anything bad happened) but I highly doubt any MD is going to be enthused about helping a group of college aged kids obtain EpiPens (be honest...would you...I sure as heck wouldn't!) especially when it could potentially effect their career.

 

 

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

That can't be it...come on guys!

Any tips on what kind of first aid kit to get or where to buy one??

So, as if it were actually a sign that I should be taking this class I got to see two people who knew WFA put their skills to the test yesterday. It was incredible! Given, it wasn't a life or death situation but they actually knew what they were doing (which I might add makes everyone around them feel better as well) So, I am looking forward to this class now...I am not to excited about the big things that could (but most likely won't happen) but the small things I can handle...I like the idea of being able to help people and make them feel better.

 

So Im now evolved with an outdoor club (an officer actuallyscary huh?) Were in the process of coming up with ideas for next year this includes (but isnt limited to) actual events, fun raisers, advertisements etc

So, any thoughts on things we can do? In the past years theyve gone rock climbing, mountain biking, skiing, white water rafting, backpacking, camping, biking, spelunking, water skiing and tubing.

Also, Ive started realizing that most people dont participate in events because things are either to easy (as in they could do it any time) or to hard so anything that is moderate but fun would be cool too (like bike riding, horseback riding or caving).

 

Also, were planning to put some money down on a pretty good first aid kit (one of the huge ones) were probably going to buy it from NOLS or something but if you have any suggestions on what kind to buy that would be helpful too (I do know that all the officers are certified WFRsthat is everyone but meso they do have lots of crazy training with things) Also, because of the training theyre seeing about getting epipensthough I dont think even wfrs are allowed to have those in their possessionwho knows.

 

 

Anyways, any tips would be very welcome.

 

OH! And before I forget, anyone know where you can get good but cheap climbing gear? The club doesnt own much (understatement we own one rope) and I know one objective will be trying to work that into the budget.

 

 

Thanks!!

 

When I was in college, we'd borrow cafeteria trays and use them as sleds which were completely uncontrollable. A couple of my friends wound up in the hospital with concussions.

 

"In high school we visited the Grand Canyon. I wanted to stand on the railing and have my picture. My father said, "get down from there."

 

One of my high school hobbies was making explosives.

 

Car surfing was popular when I was in college.

 

Would I now recommend doing such things? No but I understand it.

 

Life would be incredibly boring if young people didn't do stupid things. :-)"

 

 

 

True, life would be very dull...and yet less painful I am sure.

Cafiteria trays...that's old school you haven't tried anything until you've used garbage bags! Seriously, the big black ones, cut them open lay it on the top of the hill run and land on it...(As my one friend commented "there's nothing wrong with a good concussion...they build character!") But I strongly encourage making sure there is nothing at the bottom of the hill....like a creek or rusty metal...one friend had 12 stitches (it's interesting how long it takes someone to realize they are bleeding when they are wearing three layers and are numb from the cold)

 

Making explosives huh? Wanna share some tips my guy friends would love you forever! Actually, I know quite a few people who stayed in scouts only long enough to steal all the fire tips they could get and they can catch anything on fire!(I am not kidding anything!)

 

Haven't tried the car surfing yet lol but now that you suggest it maybe I will!

Oh...and as for our logic...it's like I tell my parents we always think safety first (in other words, it's not like we're just going to jump off a roof...that would be incredibly stupid! We'd put some mattreses down first!

" I notice a lot of people around my age tend to think they are invincible and behave like it "

 

"That's part of life and as it should be."

 

Well, I was refering to more of the hopelessly reckless things such as crossing something 10 or more feet above the ground, rock climbing without ropes, climbing over gardrails (then again everyone knows that those are just suggestions;) There are many others: http://youtube.com/watch?v=K8vhNFzgshk,

for instance. There's nothing wrong with doing spontanious things (I for one am a champion in the extreme sport of Hill Rolling...oh yes it is a sport!) but sometimes people need to think about things that could happen...then again winning a Darwin award may not be so bad .

 

So the past year working with kids has been amazing! We've cried, groaned in frustration and rolled on the floor in laughter. I thought a fun topic on here would be maybe some funny stories...after all kids do say and do some of the most amazing things! So come on...what has made you smile recently?

"For WildernesStudent, a large chunk of situations that can go wrong in the wild start small and grow into problems. Dehydration, hypothermia, heatstroke, all develop. With the safety emphasis in BSA, I believe lots of the potential problems never develop due to proactive prevention."

 

You're very right...safety emphasis isn't something that has been part of my life until recently...I simply didn't think about it. I'm sure it is something that I will be learning in some of my classes though because I would think that the hole idea of giving someone training like WFA isn't so they can go out and do whatever they heck they want to do because they can use their training...that training is extra (like seatbelts Gold Winger!) and would be pretty pointless unless they taught some sort of accident prevention. I notice a lot of people around my age tend to think they are invincible and behave like it (I admit I've done some pretty stupid things as well...hence my back injury) one of the things I was interested in when I joined this forum was actually learning some types of prevention I've seen enough of what happens without it (hypothermia, dehydration, heat exhaustion low blood sugar, twisted ankles, broken ankles, getting lost etc..)

 

"No compound fractures, sucking chest wounds, or guts hanging out, but those major traumas are less common as you've figured out"

 

Which makes me very happy...you have no idea how happy!! However, I do think I could handle a compound fracture (no blood!!) the other things...it really wouldn't matter if I had the training or not because I would have fainted dead away.

 

"it could also be a testament to the dedication of the leaders here that they don't have a horror story to relate to you."

 

Amazing point actually, which is why I specifically asked...I figured that because of the large number of members on here if no one actually had to use this traininng then perhaps it was pointless to take...what I neglected to think about was the fact that you guys are trained to avoid emergencies. Therefore all my little poll did was show how amazingly efective the BSA training is (I hope I have a bunch of boys to put in a troop one day!).

 

As for taking this class for my friends, I hadn't really thought of it like that before...I usually am one of the followers not a leader. Things like this class seem natural for people who are leaders to take (after all they are the leaders)to put myself in a position where I might learn things the leader of a group doesn't know (and infact might even have to handle a situation they can't) pretty much throws me out of my comfort zone. However, I have to remind myself that this is one of the reasons I am taking this minor (it is after all outdoor Leadership) to get out of my comfort zone and to learn how to become not just a leader but an effective leader (scary thought). I suppose I should just keep reminding myself of that.

 

 

 

I was just wondering if anyone had seen the movie Into the Wild and what you thought about it. You can watch the trailer here (

) and the movie here (watch-movies.net).

I still don't see anyone giving me an instance where this training actually was necessary. If out of all the people on this forum I would think that at least one person would have had to use it (not counting those of you who are, in fact, EMTs). However, if all the replies I am getting are 'take it because you might need it' I honestly wonder how necessary it is for me (keep in mind I am not leading a troop or anything like that, this is a optional class I can take). I had thought it might come in handy when I apply for summer camps but most camps have you take a first aid course the first week you're there anyways, so it's not like I have to have anything coming in. The reason I am asking about this is that this class is, as I said before, optional and I can take another class in its place...I'm trying to figure out what would be the best to take.