wadahoot

Mr. Phelps, Thank you for bring to my attention the fact that the link I posted is NOT the one I thought it was. I was told (back in 2003 when my son went to White Stag) that the link was for the National program, upon which Crossroads of America Council based their program. Apparently, this isn't accurate! I tried to edit my post to show the correct link, however, we can only edit within 1 hour of posting, and 2005 has been a bit longer than an hour ago! LOL! I wish my kiddo had been able to attend one of your White Stag programs ... it sounds a LOT better than the bore-fest he attended!

Thanks for the public and private replies I've received!

I didn't make it clear that he's going with a Council Contingent, and the Crew of which he is a part is made up exclusivly of Scouts/Scouters from our Troop. So, I'm expecting there is some set schedule already prepared, although I don't see any details on the original flier and/or sign-up sheet.

Any other takers out there to tell me the bad and the ugly - or point me toward tales of terror?! Thanks!

Hello!

I've been involved in Scouting for 13 years as a Cub Leader and on to become an Eagle Mom. My son has always heard that Philmont is the trip-of-all-trips, the Experience That Will Change Your Life, etc. We NEVER hear negatives about Philmont. My son is now 19, finishing his Freshman year in college and has a chance to finally go to Philmont.

I'm not trying to be a worried Mom (that's long past!), but to be sure he has reasonable expectations of the trip. He's not inexperienced ... he's camped a lot with BSA, went to Jambo 2001, was the SPL for Jambo 2005, been to Sea Base - however, he's never backpacked! I'm just not sure he truly knows what he's in for at Philmont.

Can anyone point me in a direction to read JUST how hard it will be, even if they have to be negative reviews of Philmont? He needs to decide SOON, so anything you can steer me toward would be most welcome!

My son, who is 18 and just became and Eagle Scout (hurrah! hurray!) started dying his hair in 7th grade and wanted to get his ear pierced. I was OK with the hair, and told him if he still wanted to have it pierced, he could when he turned 16. He did ... if he still wanted it years later, go for it!

I pick my battles ... hair grows out, or can be shaved off. Ear piercings can grow closed.

I figure that, if my son thinks that dying his hair and getting an ear pierced is living on the edge ... then go for it! The 'edge' could look a LOT worse from up here!

p.s. He wears a very small hoop most of the time, and when he needs to dress up, either in or out of Scouts, he wears a small, neat stud.

Anita

My son went to White Stag leadership training http://www.whitestag.org/ for a week the summer he was 14, and was ready to go home the 2nd day. It was boring - lots of classroom work and stuff they have gone over and over at school and in Scouts. It's 2 years later, and he still considers it a huge waste of time. He seriously considered volunteering to be on staff to try and liven up the program and make it meaningful, but decided he didn't want to devote another 2 weeks of staff training and then volunteer 4 weeks for a program he really didn't believe in!

The really sad thing is that he's the only Scout in his 50+ Scout Troop. The adults go on and on, that he should be able to preform virtual miracles because he completed White Stag training! They expect so much from him, when he received so little.

Too bad the program stinks (at least in our area).

Glad to see you had luck selling them! The blanket is really neat - wish I'd seen this a while back ::: grumble grumble :::

=)

Anita

Indianapolis

double post, sorry(This message has been edited by wadahoot)

Pack391, you might try also posting here in Patch Trading Central http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewForum.asp?forumID=31

Good luck!

Anita

Indianapolis

One of our Scoutmasters called home tonight and told his wife that one of the men injured in the electrocution died Thursday, and that a Scout with an undiagnosed heart problem died. Anyone hear anything about this stories? I've looked through the local Virginia papers and don't see a thing, so I'm hoping desperately they are just rumors!

My son got (via trading) a patch honoring Mr. Rogers! LOL!! and he got a patch commemorating the film "It's a Wonderful Life" ... I can't even imagine ... I think I'll need to see them to believe them!

Our Council's patches all have Garfield on them, and are going like hotcakes!

nldscout - I don't know if they are wild rumors or not - the comments I quoted were directly from 2 on-location Scoutmasters yesterday.

I would like to believe they are wrong!

>>"Why does the Army provide personnel from many military units for the National Jamboree? Why send engineers, telephone specialists, automotive mechanics, physicians and nurses, helicopter pilots and even air traffic controllers for a Boy Scouts of America event? The answer is training.

The above link doesn't work, because of the one little period at the end of the sentence! It apparently also attached to the URL, so just take off the dot and you're good to go!

The joys of technology!

I was surprised by the lack of info on the Council webpage! http://www.sfcbsa.org/Camps/LoneOak.html

All it says is "Camp Lone Oak has been sold. Please visit one of our other Council Camps"

Here's an article: http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=4&q=http://www.sptimes.com/2005/06/23/Citrus/Old_Scouts_site_seeks.shtml&e=10401

There's an archeological site on the property! http://fn1.tfn.net/~cdk901/Counties/c5citr.htm

Here's the auction: http://www.maxanet.com/cgi-bin/mnarcview.cgi?atkinson/20040514

http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/news/2004/082404.html

That's all I can find - hope someone answers you with the 'inside' story!

In brief, CNN says:

The next gathering is set for 2010, to coincide with the group's 100th anniversary, but it might not be held at Fort A.P. Hill, which has hosted the Jamboree since 1981. A federal judge recently ruled that the Pentagon can no longer financially support the event. If the ruling stands, the Boy Scouts would have to find another location for their next gathering.

A lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois contends that the Defense Department's sponsorship violates the First Amendment because the Scouts require members to swear an oath of duty to God.

On Tuesday, the Senate took a step toward allowing U.S. military bases to continue to host Boy Scouts events. By 98-0, the Senate approved the measure in a provision that's part of a bill setting Defense Department policy for next year. (Full story)

In exchange for getting use of the Army training base, the Scouts have spent about $20 million on base improvements that include road paving and plumbing upgrades. The Army says it uses the Jamboree as an opportunity to train personnel in crowd control, communications and other logistical skills.

Here is a much longer article: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/26/congress.boyscouts.ap/index.html

As I said in another thread, I rarely hear from my kid, but our Asst. Scoutmaster called to let me know that all was well with our contingent prior to the accident even hitting the news.

Some of the things he said last night are that the heat is terrible; when I checked about 6pm last night the heat index there was 116 degrees! There is a system of flags and announcements that have stopped ALL activities this afternoon and evening. The 'cease and desist' order is for everyone's protection. ASM said that our Troop's whole camp was set up this morning prior to the stop order, and the kids are now sitting around trading patches and drinking lots and lots of water. He said the kids all have a real positive attitude and are taking it all in stride! He said that the medial staff have 'baby pools' set up with ice-cold water and if anyone feels they are overheating, they just hop in! None of our contingent has had to do so, as the adults are 'force-feeding' everyone liquids.

He did not say if the boys knew about the accident, but a couple of other parents told me their sons didn't mention it during phone calls home last night.

We have a Phone Tree set up for emergencies and called everyone to let them know our group was OK from both the accident and heat. I also have an e-mail system set up where families let me know via phone or e-mail when they hear from a Scout/Scouter and I post a daily 'journal' to e-mail.

I know the heat is fierce, but I sure hope that the kids aren't made to stay in camp all day today. But, dang it, the heat index is 112 right now (according to weather.com) and tomorrow it'll be 115, finally a break in the weather Thursday).

Take Care,

Anita

Small updates:

Between 2 of the men they had 3 sons at Jambo - the boys have flown home.

The guy from Ohio had lived in Alaska for years and years, and had recently retired to Ohio, but wanted to go to Jambo with his Scouting buddies from Alaska. =(

p.s. People actually hear from their sons?! Ha! Not mine ... I think he believes 'no news is good news' and he's SPL this time around, so I'm sure he's crazy-busy.

I saw the radar last night and it looked like The Hill got one heck of a soaking.

Thanks Gags, it's been bothering me, too. I've sent a message to admin, who can hopefully still correct it.(This message has been edited by wadahoot)

As feared, some of the Leaders were Dads of Scouts at Jamboree *sigh*

Four Scout leaders killed at jamboree

July 26, 2005 12:00 am

By KRISTIN DAVIS and MELISSA NIX

Four Boy Scout leaders were killed yesterday in the worst tragedy of the National Boy Scout Jamborees 68-year history.

An electrical accident apparently occurred when a tent pole came in contact with a power line late in the afternoon of the opening day at Fort A.P. Hill.

The men were adult Scout leaders from the Anchorage, Alaska, area, said Bill Haines, Scout executive and chief executive officer of the Western Alaska Council.

All the young Scouts with the Alaska group are fine, Haines said.

A contractor and another Scout leader were also injured during the accident. One was taken to Mary Washington Hospital; the other was taken to VCU Medical Center in Richmond, said jamboree spokesman Gregg Shields. Their conditions were not immediately available.

The names of the victims were not released last night. Families of the deceased were still being notified, Shields said.

Scout spokesman Bob Dries said last night that there are no plans to cancel the rest of the jamboree. The first day of the quadrennial event began in high spirits, with thousands of Scouts arriving by bus in bright shirts, carrying brand-new camping gear.

But just before 5 p.m., military police, fire and rescue workers rushed down Lee Drive shouting at pedestrians to get out of the way.

Scouts and Scout leaders were headed down Lee Drive, in the eastern part of the Army post, toward their campsites.

A small crowd of curious onlookers gathered near the scene, called Subcamp 7. Some pedestrians continued their trek, barely pausing as smoke rose from a large white tent several hundred feet away.

Meanwhile, men in full protective gear rushed into the smoking tent and returned carrying what appeared to be a covered body.

The scene was cordoned off with yellow tape, and the tent sat drooping and lopsided several hours later. Power was shut down in that area of the post and workers from the Rappa hannock Electric Cooperative arrived on the scene.

News of the tragedy spread slowly across the sprawling Army post, where more than 35,000 Scouts from across the United States have gathered for the 10- day jamboree. Scouts went about their late-afternoon routine, picking up food items and heading back to their posts to prepare dinner.

Most Scouts seemed unaware of the deaths.

Jamboree officials said they did not know the exact circumstances of the accident, nor did they know the voltage of the power lines.

A thorough investigation is under way, Shields said.

He said counselors and chaplains were made available to the Scouts affected by the tragedy. Haines said the four victims were longtime Scout leaders with Troop 711, which together with Troop 712 brought 80 Scouts, and eight leaders to the jamboree.

The father of a Scout from the Alaskan contingent said all the Scouts had been removed from the area of the accident.

Its now an investigation scene and its closed to everyone, he said in a telephone interview. The Scouts were moved to Army barracks on the post and chaplains and counselors are spending time with them.

The father, who did not want to be identified, said his 17-year-old witnessed the incident. Hes a very stoic type but this will hit him later, the father said.

He noted that some of those killed likely were parents of Scouts and others were longtime leaders. How it will affect them you just never know.

On Sunday, Boy Scouts volun teer Albert Puff, 57, of Stella, N.C., was taken to a local hospital where he died of an apparent heart attack, said jamboree spokeswoman Renee Fairrer.

There have been two accidental Scout deaths in the jamborees 68- year-history. In August 1997, 16- year-old Robert Combes of Fin leyville, Pa., died after the mili tary Humvee he was driving overturned on a winding gravel road near Wilcox Road and A.P. Hill Drive.

Combes, a youth staffer at that years jamboree, was crushed beneath the 7,700-pound vehicle, which was used to transport ice and cold drinks between camp sites. He was not trained to operate the truck but convinced another teenager to let him. Three other teens were injured in that accident.

In 1977, a Scout attending the jamboree at a state park in Pennsylvania was struck by light ning and killed.

Gov. Mark Warner issued a statement last night, offering his condolences to all those affected by the tragedy. He said he wished to reassure the parents of the Scouts that they were in good hands.

All of us hope and pray that the remainder of the 2005 National Jamboree will offer a safe and educational experience for these young men and their adult lead ers, he said.

Free LanceStar reporter Edie Gross and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/072005/07262005/0726accident

Copyright 2005 The Free Lance-Star Publishing Company.

Uh,oh! I didn't read your question well - I was so excited to tell you about Marengo Caves, I didn't realize you were asking for places to stay part way. Sorry.

Our local Council has a Webelos camp http://www.crossroadsbsa.org/camping/info/kikt.pdf that at times allows non-summer campers. It's a great camp, and is about 45 minutes north of Indy.

Our other Council camps are in the wrong place for your needs. Hope this helps a bit more!

Take Care,

Anita

My son's Troop went to Marengo this winter and had a good time! They stayed in a cabin, as it was too cold to get wet caving and then camp, but they have camped in past years. The people that run the program were very helpful and can include a variety of activities possible, including: Climbing Tower, Zipline, Team Courses, Cave Crawls.

http://www.marengocave.com/ (website for the cave itself)

http://www.adventureindiana.com/nag/ (website for the pre-paid activities)

Our Troop and my son's Cub Pack in the past have gone to Bluesprings Caverns and it was atrocious. There was an open sewer and some of the parent/doctors were literally concerned about disease! I think it's been about 3 years since they last went, so perhaps Bluesprings has cleaned up their act (it was a great winter option, since as the other Mom pointed out, they could camp in the cave).

Also, as she pointed out, Ransburg, our biggest camp is really pretty wonderful!

http://www.crossroadsbsa.org/camping/ransburg.htm

http://www.ransburgbsa.org/

Here is a good reference website http://www.peteandedbooks.com/inor.htm

Good luck!

Anita

Indianapolis

Latest news:

"Four adult scout leaders from the Western Alaskan Council are dead tonight after an electrical accident at the National Scout Jamboree at Fort A. P. Hill. "

Couldn't be worse news ... so hard to get home, or for families to get to their kids and spouses. =(

I can't seem to get signed in correctly to be able to edit my above message - sorry.

It was in Subcamp 7, and some people were airlifted out.

local paper: http://fredericksburg.com/

local TV: http://www.nbc12.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WWBT/Page/WBT_SectionFront&c=Page&cid=1059969234570 sometimes this article has a video to click on next to the article title

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/072005/07252005/0725jaminjury/0725VAFRE102web.jpg/photo_view

As for the heat - It is terrible; when I just checked the heat index there is 116 degrees! There is a system of flags and announcements that have stopped ALL activities this afternoon and evening. The 'cease and desist' order is for everyone's protection. Our Scoutmaster that called me to activate our Phone tree said that the whole camp was set up this morning prior to the stop order, and the kids are now sitting around trading patches and drinking lots and lots of water. He said the kids all have a real positive attitude and are taking it all in stride! He said that the medial staff have 'baby pools' set up with ice-cold water and if anyone feels they are overheating, they just hop in! None of our contingent has had to do so, as the adults are 'force-feeding' everyone liquids.

What a horrible, horrible day. =(

Apparently, a vehicle struck a utility pole and there were live wires that have injured and/or killed a number of people. Of course, the details are sketchy, but between what our Scoutmaster has heard (and called with info to start our Phone Tree that all is well with our contingent) and what I could find on the local Virginia news, the story is that 12 people (including Scouts) were injured and 4 Scoutmasters were killed, as the wire fell on a tent. Some news outlets are calling it a 'car accident' and others are calling it an 'electrical accident.'

Subcamp 7

I know this post is late, but perhaps someone else can use the information. About 3 years ago, our Troop used North American River Runners http://narr.com/ At the time (and I can't say now, of course) they were incredibly helpful, tailor-fit the program to our Troop and the trip/counselors were awesome! They have a lot of extras available at their base camp, like a climbing wall, ropes course, giant swing, etc., that can be scheduled into the package. They also had a dorm-like bunkhouse so that the kids could get a good night's sleep after driving there and before hitting the river. I couldn't give them a better recommendation (mind you this was 3 years ago) - Super!

Anita

Indianapolis