TySim

Barry, Please do not leave the discussion. If you are misunderstanding something, that means I am not stating things clearly. Let me place everything in a concise edition for you, then we can continue. :-) It started when several older adults asked me (and another leader I found out) to join their touch football game. The CC said no, it was inappropiate. There was a meeting that followed where they told us (more specifically to me, since at that time I am the only scouter to actually have played with them) that YP says we can not play touch football. Furthermore, Scouters are n

"You will never find any BSA publication that will say touch football is allowed. The G2SS lists various activities and actions that are forbidden" The point was not about Flag Football, and the G2SS does say Flag football is permitted. The point was the Prohibition of any Physical Contact between Adults and Youth. That is not written down anywhere, one way or the other. To date it seems that the issue has not been refined / defined / discussed at that level. More research has shown that troop policies / interpretations cover both sides of the coin... Several state spec

This is probably the wrong thread to post this in, but after reading several posts, I figure here is as good as any... The ACLU is an organization that protects the Civil rights of ALL Americans. This means that sometimes, those that think they are right are on the wrong side of the ACLU, even when they are in the Majority. I can sight several current examples, some of which are discussed here. Boy Scouts and Gays. The ACLU was actually split on this issue. First there is the rights of a private organization to define membership and requirements. Second came the Rights of

EagleDad, I think you misinterpret my purpose for including the White Stag reference. It was not to suggest that that is policy because they say so. Nor have I mentioned that to the CC btw. I simply pointed it out because here is a program that collaborated with BSA on incorporating their Youth Protection Policy so that White Stag could be recognized as being BSA compliant. The interpretation they made on the policy is the same as the one I tend to believe is correct. BSA does not have listed, posted, or available anywhere, clarification on this point one way or another. When that

FScouter, I am aware that the White Stag Leadership is Not BSA. However, the policies they instituted came with help from the BSA and their YP guidelines. Since BSA members are encouraged to participate in White Stag, and the Two organizations have common roots (White Stag originated as a JLT course in Monterey Bay Area Council, and is the basis for BSA's Philmont and Wood Badge courses) leads me to believe that if they interpret it that way, then more than likely it is common interpretation (As shown by the responses here as well.) BSA does not state anywhere that you can not "touch" a

I am not sure on the CC / DE thing. The CC deferred the conversation until later. I am assuming he wants to do more research. Meanwhile, I am slowly piling up information for him. This comes indirectly from the BSA Youth protection as adapted by the White Stag Leadership program. ----------------------------------------------------- Limit physical contact. While physical contact between an adult and a youth is not absolutely prohibited, as in congratulating a youth for an accomplishment, adults must be very alert to the appropriateness of any physical contact. It is possible t

Finally I know where this is coming from.... It seems that the DE has decided that ANY physical contact between the adults and the youths is prohibited by the youth protection policies. Funny, I re-read all of them, re-took the test (and aced it) and I can not find that anywhere.... However, I did make some headway. The issue seems to be that "Touch Football" involves contact where as "Flag Football" does not. Therefore, if I go buy a set of Flags for the troop, there should not be any objection...... We shall see how that goes.....

Still nothing yet. We have a meeting tomorrow night. I am guessing he will say something there one way or the other.

Just a quick update for everyone. I presented some of the things discussed here, along with several websites where troops put up results of their annual "Turkey Bowl" flag football game between scouts and scouters etc.. to my CC and asked him to clarify this at the District Round Table last night. He agree to get clarification. Hopefully I should know something today.

Oh, I just had to say as well, Anyone that thinks Judo is a defensive art, has never participated in a Judo match. Unlike TKD, Aikido, Godoryu / Gojoryu etc, You have a much better chance of scoring and winning being the aggressor in Judo. Aikido is definately a reactionary MA form where your opponents movement is your best weapon. But in a typical Judo Match, You pop in, try to throw, your opponent counters, and if you are good, you anticipate the counter before the person does it, adjust as they start it, and execute a counter throw based on his counter before he even finishes

With the ability of my old sensei to propel throw the air a good 15+ feet, I would serious question if Judo is truly a soft art (especially if there is a wall in the way :-P)

I agree 100% with you One Hour. I am one that knows how good I am at playing the game, and how dangerous it could be. The scouts in question are 15-17 range for the most part, with a few younger ones joining in on occasion. I guarentee If I was dangerous to them, they would not have invited me back after the first game. But again, your point is well taken.

Judo / Aikido / Tai Chi are all considered "Soft Art" forms. Karate / Tae Kwon Do / Boxing / etc... Are all "Hard Art" forms. BSA drew the line between the two (and for a very good reason.)

SemperParatus, You are a genius! That sounds like a silver bullet to me.... :-)

I was told that I was making "Physical Contact" with the youth, and that any physical contact is not allowed. He also went so far as to say placing a hand on a youth's soldier (the example was from behind to get his attention) or placing your arm around his shoulder (like is actually shown in the great video for Scout Master specific training) is also prohibited. The last reference btw was in response to an incident involving a youth that needed to be corrected, but not in an embarrassing way. Since he was in public, the leader placed his arm around the youth's shoulder, lowered his head

SemperParatus, Thanks for the two replies thus far. I am not looking for a silver bullet, although one would be nice, I would love to see some more guidence on the subject however. I was already aware of the lawsuits in reference to volunteers, for the most part, it pertains more to negligence than interaction. From the lawsuit synapsis... "When the Viking reached Sauvie Island that afternoon, the group put ashore at Hadley's Landing and the boys began playing touch football. However, the game soon evlolved into tackle football. When Powell ran back the kickoff, he collided

Here is my problem.... Our scouts (mostly the older scouts) play flag / touch football on most camping events. The first Camping trip I went on (as a new ASM) I was invited to participate in a game where we played another troop. The other troop had several leaders playing as well. Since then, The boys have asked me to participate twice more. However, on this last trip, when the boys invited me to play, Our CC said that it was inappropiate and I could not participate. This really upset a few kids who later mentioned to another scouter that the leaders had an "elitist attitude" that