tma-1

BPwannabe, I think you hit it on the head when you said "the program is designed for little boys. It works. Girl scouts are designed for little girls. It works too."

The programs in the UK and Australia are coed, and I'm sure they work very well mainly because they are *designed* as coed programs. I've never read any

I've done both - Den Meeting at the church (the chartering organization) and Den Meeting in my home. Both settings have their advantages. When I'm meeting at the church, I have an incredible amount of space, unlimited seating, adequate classroom-style lighting, and contact with the other den leaders. When meeting at home, I have a comfortable setting, I'm always on time, and I have ALL OF MY STUFF!

I bounce between the two settings as needed by my program for the night. Making placemats for Blue-and-Gold? Church setting - they have lots of long tables that are built to handle glue spills. Teaching Webelos campfire safety *before* the campout? Home setting - build the fire ring in my backyard. You get the idea. As long as you are good with communication and maps, this works very well.

I've seen the light and dark side of having parents in place (fortunately, more light than dark). Parents are an asset, and I'll use and abuse anyone who is generous enough to lend their time and talent to my den. This approach has enabled me to lead for four years without an official assistant den leader, but at least five "unofficial" assistants!

However, I've had some boys who were absolute angels of behavior due to the unfamiliarity with the Den Leader - in short, they don't know how far they can push me, so they don't push too hard. Bring Mom or Dad into the mix, and they are suddenly more comfortable, knowing just how far they can push, and so they do - to the breaking point! To such parents I try to give jobs that don't require their presence, like bringing cookies to the pack meetings or campsite preparation on outings.

One question for Acco40 - you mentioned that a husband/wife doesn't constitute two-deep leadership. I'll agree that a husband/wife team isn't an ideal example of two-deep leadership, but I've never heard this was specifically disallowed. Not trying to start an argument or anything - the reason I ask is because I am a district trainer, and I'm constantly asked about the permutations of two-deep leadership. When asked about husband/wife teams, I refer to the BSA policy that there must be two adults present - two registered leaders, or a registered leader and the parent/guardian of one of the participants who is at least 21. However, I usually add that the youth-protection guideline is for *adult* as well as youth protection, so a non-related adult is better to provide more accountability, but that it isn't *required*.

Some people have made excellent points about the lack of insurance coverage for improperly-registered youth, and I agree with them. Cub Scouting is an *active* program, so us volunteer leaders need all the protection we can get (especially since we're all broke from buying our uniforms!)

However, I'd like to highlight another reason why it's bad mojo to have a girl in Cub Scouts - it's not designed for them!

The BSA has paid a lot of money to a lot of people who have a lot of letters behind their names to develop a quality, challenging, and age-appropriate program for BOYS. One look at the youth protection materials (such as the excellent BSA video "It Happened to Me") makes it obvious that the BSA took many factors into account when developing their program, but that gender wasn't one of them!

Although it is debatable whether it's due to biology or social conditioning, most of us would say there's a big difference between boys and girls in the USA, even at this early age. One glance at the television commercials on kid's cable will confirm this - Hot Wheels for boys and Bratz for girls. While there are always exceptions, in my experience it is rare to find a girl who would place "learning to use a pocketknife" in her personal top-ten list.

When I read this thread, my first reaction was to think that the parents or the Pack leadership had some sort of sexual-equality agenda to advance, and my evil inner-conservative was pounding on the door of my self-restraint. However, I'm guessing this is similar to a situation I see all the time in my Pack - this is probably a family who sees a wonderful program for their son, and they want to get the daughter a piece of the same action. I don't know about anywhere else, but in my neck of the woods, it is harder to find a quality Girl Scout unit than a quality Cub Scout Pack, making this desire very undertandable.

However, I feel these parents are doing their daughter a disservice, especially if she is of Webelos age. That's the age group where most girls start advancing in maturity over the same-aged boys (and we boys never do catch up, do we?). She's going to wake up one camping trip and realize she's with a bunch of peers who feel that fart jokes are the height of classy humor.

Hey, If I'm wrong, and we have some sort of Amazon warrior-princess in the making, I apologize. However, I'm sure there's a lot of things that a girl needs at this age that she *won't* get from Cub Scouts.

Good luck to you, Den3702!