SwampYankee

At my scout store, there is a whole bin of Eagle Life Member knots out on the floor. I went in with my NESA membership card, expecting to be carded, and they didn't say a word, just scanned the knot and put it in a bag. I was a little disconcerted. I'll have to check for OA stuff on the floor next time...

When I was 17 years old I became an Ordeal member of the OA. A year later I tuned 18, got my Eagle, went onto college, found out how easy it was talk to girls and discovered a professional passion. I think I maintained my OA membership for another couple years but dropped out of scouting once I went to college (although I did join APO and was a chapter president for a semester). Now that my son is in Cub Scouts and I am the new cubmaster, I have joined the local OA chapter. They just sent me a fancy new flap but I don't really understand what my role is or how I get to Brotherhood, or even if an adult can. I'm happy to pay the dues and do what I can to help, but I remember the OA as pretty much a teenager-run organization. Yes, I could ask the Lodge what I can do but I'd rather ask here first, where I'll feel less stupid....

Scoutfish, I don't mind the rant. I agree with your point. I have a very hard time giving out an award that was not earned per the set standards. I spent many years when I was a boy in both cub scouts and boy scouts and as a merit badge councilor/assistant nature director on camp staff. I never would have signed off on or expected to receive ann advancement I did not earn. What I am new to is the whole square knot issue. But after a lot of feedback, it turns out it is not my responsibility. The council gives out the knot, not the pack, so I have no intention of usurping that authority. If people want the knot and come to me with the paperwork, I will sign it (assuming they meet the requirements). But I'm not going to give them out arbitrarily, which has been my pack's past practice.

I went to my first roundtable two weeks ago and that is where I learned of the knot requirements- they had all the requirements laid out on a table and someone did say something about giving out leader awards at an end-of-year dinner? At the time I did not make the connection between knots as "awards". I do know that the pack has been giving out the knots without any Council certificate.

I think putting the council in-between me and the knot process may be a solution. I'l talk to the Council staff and confirm that this is a process they manage (it appears that it may be- or is supposed to be) and then I can put it in the Chairperson's lap, indicating that we just don't have the authority to give these out. If people are interested, they or the chair can manage their progress and when they fill out the form, I will sign it to be sent up the chain.

One of the comments I got from our last CM was that the council was a mess. He was always having problems getting answers or assistance from them. I have now been to TWO in-person training sessions and frankly, I got very little out of them. The roundtables do seem a bit better. The Council had a Pow-wow two years ago and the previous CM said it was fantastic. They have no plans to do another. I wonder if the previous CM even knew what the knot process entailed?

Thanks for the advice, I hope it will save me some grief!

I just took over as the Cubmaster for my son's pack. In May, it is my job to give out adult awards. One of the traditions in my pack is to give out leader knots for things like Tiger Cub, Den Leader and Cub Scouter. The problem I face is that the Pack has often given out knots (as late as last year) without people fulfilling many of the requirements. For example: all the leader knots require attendance at roundtables. But no one goes. Yet they get the knot (our Council does not do Pow Wows, etc).

My question is, does anyone care if we give out these knots even if all the requirements are not met? As an Eagle Scout and someone who was always taught to follow the rules, this has caused me more angst than anything else I have had to do as Cubmaster. I want to follow the traditions of the Pack, but not at the expense of the tenets of Boy Scouts. I would be furious if someone wore an Eagle knot and never earned it. I know the training knots are not the equivalent of an achievement knot, but I'm not sure what to do.

I emailed my commissioner and got a a confused and evasive answer. So I wonder, does the Council just not care about the knot requirements? Is it an unspoken rule? Is there even any record of these knots or am I making too big a deal out of it? Should I just not worry about it? But then I think about the Eagle knot and the Heroism Award and all those other knots and think, "how can there be a double standard"? If the Council does not care about the training knots, what is to stop anyone from slapping any knot on their chest?

I brought this up at a Pack leader meeting and my concerns were met with silence. After I explained the full extent of the issue, my concerns were met by ribbing. I seem to be taking this more seriously than anyone else- admittedly, I am the only one who spent his teenage years in scouting and the OA...

Any insight would be appreciated.

I feel the best compromise is to give the knots out this year but make it perfectly clear in the future that no knots will be given out unless the requirements are met and that this stipulation will be made at the beginning of every year. Frankly, until I joined the pack, no one but the previous Cubmaster and the cub scouts even wore a uniform. No one really seems to care about the knots but I'm trying to tread carefully.