Sprite

GS Camp-- I can tell you about the good old days before cell phones. We sat down the first couple of evenings to write post cards home. Those were great keep sakes, even if I hated doing them. I don't think the Trading post even sells post cards anymore.

The BS camp we attended is 3+ hours away and the parents could send e-mails through the camp e-mail system. So I didn't carry personal messages unless I felt it was a need to know thing. I did the e-mails while charging my (UGGH) cell phone. And I'd much rather communicate via e-mail than cell.

What shocked me about the experience is my First Class Scout parents thanking me. They obviously were not worried about their scouts, but got to vicariously enjoy some of what the scouts were doing. Not to mention feel proud of their offspring.

What methods do you use to help scouts overcome the fear of bugs?

We went to summer camp this year with a lot of new scouts. The first few days I sent e-mails to the parents with a summary of what went on. I also sent individual e-mails on scouts that were having issues.

This week 4 scouts died at another summer camp and we had a thunderstorm while we were at camp. Parents thanked me by e-mail and when we returned. They said they knew they would be contacted if their scout was in danger and it relieved their anxiety. Some of the parents of our older scouts thanked me too. They said they ask their son what happened at camp and never hear anything. This gives them something to talk about when they get home.

For me, it was a lot of extra work. But I think it was worth it.

Our patrols had tents together, were assigned duties by patrol and when moving as a troop moved together. Each patrol leader was also tasked with making sure all members of his patrol were present or to know the whereabouts of the member.

We were using the "traditional" style of patrol rather than NSP. It worked really well.

Also it is beneficial for the boys to make a decision and see the consequences of it.

If they decide to forego the TAE, it will be the first year they didn't earn it in a long time. Sure, their choice. I recall making a similar decision once when I backed out of something because I wasn't confident enough to try. I made sure that never happened again.

I like to give the boys as much rope as possible, help them see the parameters involved, and see what they do. If it is in keeping with scouting basics and doesn't harm them, they will grow in the process.

Examples: Many of our boys wanted to forego a section of a Summer Camp class. In one case I assented and said it would be ok for them to stay behind, explaining that we will easily cover that requirement in our regular troop activities and it would give them free time for the waterfront. A third of the scouts elected to go anyway. For another, I told them that requirement is hard to cover otherwise and that they really should go. They all went. The parameters for decision making can be key. In the end it is their achievements, even though it reflects on the SM. If the scouts take responsiblity for their own decisions it is a big step to becoming a young man and valuable community leader.

We used our redesigned patrols (4) at summer camp. Our 6 Philmont bound scouts took on leadership with some relunctance but were willing. The 11 first year scouts had a few bumps in learning buddy system and patrol, but they got it!! And I saw gains in the leaders as well. Boys who previously ignored younger scouts, engaged them and exhibited responsibility.

I am very proud of them all. The Scouts gelled in their patrols and WANT to continue them.

Using the postings I previously read and the patrol leaders guidebook, I gave each leader a spiral memo book. Had the patrols ride up to camp together and charged each Patrol Leader to get to know his patrol members and what they are looking forward to at camp and what they are afraid of.

Best laid plans often go awry. Before we got out of town, we had an equipment failure with the trailer and had to shuffle scouts. Nevertheless we got the patrol leaders to group their scouts anytime we were moving as a troop and the duty roster was assigned by patrol.

As adults, we advised and delegated to the scout chain of command frequently. We held the patrol leaders responsible. And counselled a couple of boys on alternative ways to handle the difficult situations they found themselves in.

Now our younger scouts are not only looking to the older scouts as leaders, they are aspiring to be leaders too. Great time!!

Just met a really nice GS unit at our Church this last Sunday. They were on a Summer trip and chose our city. The leader said she had girls 13-18 in her troop.

Grew up GS, now a BS leader. Seems a world of difference between the programs greatest of which is separation by ages. BS has separate units per grade until Webelo (4th& 5th grade)then the boys cross over into Boy Scouts, ages 12-17 (18 becomes a leader) are in the same troop. It is difficult for the pre-adolescent boys and interesting to watch and mentor the interchange.

The GS divisions seemed to be more based on School divisions, which is probably why 6th graders are now cadets as schools go to Middle school concept rather than Junior high. This also reflected a good number of troops are school based. All I can say is worked for me. I'm not sure I would have wanted to be with Teenage girls when I was pre-adolescent. They were like Aliens!

Your ASM reminds me of one ours, a former Marine. It seems that sometimes he forgets about the differences between Marines and scouts.

Sounds like the scout may be taking pride in his headgear and could probably tell more of the history behind it and scouting at the time. Also it does give him an opportunity to be little bit different. However--all scouts are a little bit different from the general population.

Vive le difference!!

What should be the guidelines for determining districts?

Number of Scouts

Number of Units

Economics

Experienced and availability of volunteers

Are there any guidelines on this?

Our experience--There were 2 long established, self sustaining troops in our District when I started. That were expected to provide all the volunteers. Our DE was horrible at organizing encampments/jamborees, training, etc. I know we complained about him for at least 4 years--but he brought in the money. Our district had a lot of new, low economic area troops in it and needed the help. Finally we are redistricted (combined with another district). There is more interest in volunteering. Scout Reach arena is now it's own organization.

Hey Scoutmomma,

I thought Aluminum was linked to Alsheimers. But of course our boys won't be worried about that...

Come to think of it my father-in-law was a scout from the 20's. With over 50 years in scouting, he died with his mind still sharp as a tack and walking 3 miles a week in his 90's.

Now that is something to aspire to. Dang nice guy too.

I met a Troop from Texas at Kia Kima last year. They decided to come there because of the Adventure offerings, then when they signed up every one of the boys signed up for the Merit badges... Go figure

Expectations are to give the boys an easy access to the Merit Badges--particularly the Eagle required ones. The troops that go to Kia Kima debate every year on which is better the cook your own or dining hall.

Out of 6 merit badge slots, scouts can choose to do non-badge or adventure badge work. COPE for example is 3 slots. Swimming is 2 slots. Whitewater is offered too and yes there are extra fees for some of the activities. For freetime adventure activities they have Mountain Skateboarding (don't let your over protective aka helicopter parents know about this one!)

While I've become a convert to training, I've a number of concerns. 1) Concentrating training via District works well when you have a functioning district but until recently our DE was not a troop builder which left some strong scouters out of the loop. 2) Some of the training for new leaders was repetitive and more geared to "Join Scouting." If they are leaders--drop the sales pitch and focus on the needs of leaders. 3) The rewrite of training and "requirement" for fresh training is IMO for the lawyers and a method to raise money. (cynical I know) which is why I suspect they chose not to do "refresher" courses as JBlake mentioned. Yet despite these concerns I see the benefit of training now that I am able to get some. We had a scouting university recently which was wonderful for me. My favorite was Troop Committee Challenge.

As for people who are already strong scouters--been Wood Badge trained and even taught many of the courses. National should recognize your quality and preserve your time by providing refreshers/updates and encourage you to help facilitate the new courses. I think what really angers is the attitude that your experience in scouts and former training now doesn't count.

My excitement dimmed when I read FScouters reply. Our SM took over our troop in this last year and is working to instill the boy led troop and patrol method. It is a long road.

Currently our patrols are just what FScouter identified as standing on the lines. Our experience with Patrol Guides have been less than spectacular over the years to the point that we incorporated the newer scouts into our existing patrols. In my son's patrol, the PL rarely came to meetings or PLC meetings.

As a result the new scouts (mostly from 2 packs) don't feel a particular affiliation with the patrols. What I am hoping is to give our 6 more senior scouts (rising 8-11 graders) leadership experience and reduce pressure on the Acting Senior Patrol Leader when duties are assigned. These young men have exhibited mentoring behaviors toward the younger scouts on previous camp outs.

So my question is does what we have constitute "permanent" patrols? My suspicion is that this training/organization exercise will lead to firming up the patrols for the year yet allow for flexibility once they understand how to function within the group. Camp duties could be assigned by group rather than scout. On the other hand, if we maintain the status quo, with most of our senior scouts not attending, how should we deal with one patrol having 3 scouts, another having 9 all rising 6th graders.

I've seen other posts mentioning rewards for camp skill/duty performance. In either case, what expectations do you recommend we set for the acting leaders? Regardless, the prime goal from my point of view is to make Summer Camp a safe, enjoyable experience for ALL our scouts and to help our young scouts make the transistion into the troop.

Thanks--Sprite

I read this thinking it was about Scouting. Am female, with lots of Girl Scouting experience. When my son joined the Boy Scouts, I'd attend the parent meetings to hear "Any Dads who would like to help..." I even wrote up areas I could help and submitted them to the SM without much response.

Finally the troop was desparate for an adult to go on a campout and I went. Granted being female in a BS camp isn't easy--but I had a great time and the SM respected me afterwards. My son has been in the troop for 5 years now--I'm still learning the Boy Scout way and finally wanting to do more of the training sessions. When I became an ASM I was the only female in the company of all divorced males. I had to wonder if I was in the "woman haters group." I'm not! The other adults scouters are great and not woman haters at all but I did feel I needed to prove my stripes.

I am a firm believer that everyone has benefit and can be useful. As I've seen in other forums not all people are in their niche this is our challenge to the adults and scouts. Encourage each person to benefit the troop in way that fits them.

Sprite

Our troop is very excited to have 17 first year scouts giving us 36 boys. Traditionally Summer Camp is where the boys really start fitting in with the troop. This year is also a Philmont year for us. So 2 of our senior leaders (SM,ASM) will not be attending the full summer camp. Our former SM will come, but he doesn't know our first year scouts.

I am former ASM, now CC and going to camp for full week, previously did 1/2. SM is trying to recruit more than 3 adults we have now to go.

Our troop has been slowly, excruciatingly learning about the Patrol Method. What do you guys think about setting up Patrols for Summer camp alone. I have 7 older/experienced scouts (3 of which are also going to Philmont) and 4 scouts going to camp for the second year. This shouldn't be the permanent patrols because we will be missing several other experienced scouts who couldn't afford time, money or both to do summer camp and Philmont.

So in my own self-defense (poor excuse) I thought we could set up 3 patrols with the experienced scouts leading each and mentoring the first years which would make the adults job easier and encourage the boys to enforce camp rules. Since our boys are in the early stages of learning to be boy led, I'm looking for more good advice.

Before you rehash what you've said already I want to thank the following for these words of advice I have picked up through the forum.

From Beavah:

Patrol Leader teach it by word and example. The goal is to turn over camp tasks and hikes to the kids first.

From Eagledad

A few examples are we think like that the Patrol Leaders have to get their patrol up and in formation to do a Troop flag ceremony before we hike down to the Camp Flag Ceremony. We ask that scouts only come to Flag as a patrol. That forces the PL leader to get the scouts organized to bring them to the Troop Flag. Typically our troop arrives to the Camp Ceremony late the first couple of days. The embarrassment encourages the Patrol leaders to build better team work and to seek out guidience is they need some from the SPL. We don't allow the adults to follow or lead scouts to their classes. We want the scouts to learn how to seek out help there and and develop independence. Scouts are not allowed to leave camp without telling the patrol leader first. That sounds simple, it actually requires team work and understanding who is the responsible leader at the time because the PL is likely in class somewhere. IT is frustrating at first, but the patrol quickly learns how to create a roster so that there is always someone who is responsible in camp when needed.

We have a PLC every day so that the SPL pass along new camp information and to remind the PLs of our troop programs like a game, troop campfire and usually a troop swim or shoot. The SPL always volunteers our troop to do a Camp Flag ceremony, clean up detail, and a camp service project.

From nwsscouttrainer

When fighting broke out this past weekend, he made all of the participants stop and recite the scout law then discuss how they were violating it. He then reminded them that as scouts, their adherence to the Oath and Law was required just as much as being able to tie knots, build fires or complete a five mile hike when it comes to earning rank. If they cannot display behavior in accordance with the Oath and Law, they may not be ready to be awarded First or Second Class Rank.

From ozemu

Getting along with each other is a main part of Scouting. This behaviour is a gift for us to explore that in detail and very personally. Scouting is not about MB's and camping skills (great though those things are).

This behaviour should be the focus of the Troop/Patrol and the SM and ASM's should have it as priority #1.

From anarchist:

Adult leaders need to remember that scouting has many competing activities and unless we are willing to go the extra mile..with guidelines, deadlines, call me back ticklers how can we expect it to trickle down? Sure it is more work but we must constantly stand at the scouts elbow and softly make corrections, hints and suggestions...even lending a gentle hand occasionally to avoid setting the troop up for constant failure...as we train the older scouts we may find time to stand back but only rarely do we actually get to sit down to drink our coffee...And yes as it has been said hundreds of thousands of times...boy led is more work and more chaos for the adults than a Webelos III troop program...but if we really believe in the Boy Led idea we need to support it with the extra work...

From Kudu http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/leaders_creed.htm

Thanks!!! Sprite (PS this was my first Camp Counselor name--I was a long time Girl Scout.)