sitrep

Good idea but I doubt national will listen, I mean were not the professionals right? I would like to see all the skills stuff put back in and all the pretty pictures taken out. It seemd to me that was was kept in the book was just dumbed down.

I serve as my troops rep for our district roundtable. This was after we stopped attending b/c the people running it were doing a lame job and it was a waste of time. Not that things have changed but we wanted to go back and see if they had. However I think if well run they can be a good source of info and networking.

Seattle:

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question someone previous put to you asking when push ups become oppressive. But then again weren't you the one that thought it acceptable to throw the scout's hot dog in the fire? I've seen SM and other adults that bully the kids and treat them like they are in the military and I have no tolerence for that.

I don't always have time to change into my uniform before a meeting or distrcit round table. I would like to see someone tell me to do push ups for that.

If you don't like the hot dogs then I guess you could always would throw them in the camp fire.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

I don't think it is being either unfair or petty. The forms are required by the BSA not you and you should not feel bad about enforcing the rules. You should stress that the forms are for the scouts' saftey.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

ManyIrons:

Your question has nothing to do with the thread and is just an excercise in internet pop psychology. Are you going to ask me next if I wet my bed or if my parents spanked me as a child? But I'll humor you tell you that I'm not not bitter eventhough I know you won't believe me.

My statment about the OA being a popularity contest comes from my personal observation as both a scout and an ASM. I've seen both boys and parents hurt by the fact that the election is a populaity contest. Popularity contests may be fine for regular elections like PL, SPL and the like but not for something that is supposedly an honor. I remember one instance when a active father of a very good life scout at my troop was standing around with some of the other adults wondering out loud why his boy wasn't elected and the only conclusion he could come up with was that it was a popularity contest. No one said anything but I should have spoken up and told him how I agreed with him b/c it was sad but true.

To claim that the OA is not secret just b/c some info is guarded for the protection of those joining is lame. Scouting has no other group within it that has closed meeting and is not open to all except members. Maybe the correct term to use about the OA is exclusive. I stand by my question, "How does an elite group further the aims of scouting?" I seriously doubt that the "BSA might survive without the OA, but it would be a much harder struggle to stay running." That is just and excuse to justify/emphsize the necessity/existance of the OA.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

Scoutnut:

You do a good job of avoiding my question and focusing on things like the elections. I said "So you are really telling us that the OA is not a secret society? How does an elite (or rather I should say exclusive) group further the aims of scouting?" But it is mostly my second question that is the heart of the objection to the OA. As far as your council's OA work weekend yes I'm sure I could come but only to certain events, right? I just don't think a group like the BSA with it's ideals needs an exclusive group.

gavvin:

Tell us where is the "skill" involved using a GPS. Finding a clear spot for reception or hitting the button?

I go for C. But I have to say this thread is pretty ridiculous. I'm more concerned with kids seeing graphic violence on TV and movies than I am with a little T&A.

tortdog:

Shouldn't you be tortfeasordog?

ScoutNut:

So you are really telling us that the OA is not a secret society? Let see they have selective membership and secret ceremonies. Even on this board they have their own forum that is only accessable to those with the proper password. How does an elite group further the aims of scouting?

Scoutldr:

Were you around back then? I think not, so I doubt you can tell me that the BSA back then was lacking something so vital that only the addition of the BSA own secret society could make up for it. Can anyone tell me why the BSA really needs the OA, except for some people to better about themselves?

kenk:

I agree that the BSA YP is very important, however, I think that like everything else it can be taken too far and that you question is approaching that limit.

LauraT7:

Why does it matter if you are in the OA? The way I see it the OA is just a big popularity contest. I think it is terrible that there is some "special" group that only certain scouts can belong too. The BSA was just fine the way it was before the OA appeared.

If the girls scouts put half the effort they put into their program that they put into their cookies then they would be quite something.

For the most part I think the BSA is just fine they way it is and hope it doesn't change. If the BSA does we might as well be learning for life.

Dug:

Why is the boys saying we are tired right now and want to eat later being lazy? I sometimes say the same thing after I come home from work. As someone said earlier the SM had a tantrum b/c the hands on his cock said to do something had to be done right now. The one boy was hungry so he did the resonable thing and tried to feed himself.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

Evmori:

If you really think that is leadership then that is quite sad. I guess you've never seen real leadership then.

Dug:

Yes work neeeds to get done tired or not and if I don't do my work on the job I may get fired. However this is "Boy" Scouts, that is what the "B" in BSA stands for and they are not adults and they are not at work and they can not be fired. Scouting is supposed to be I am told a game with a purpose not a job or a youth boot camp.

I'm not crazy about the use of BS on a scouting related site but its a good lead in for this. You see teaching young people self confidence, motivation and self worth as a bad thing because .......?

They are not scouts and so have no right to those things?

You see those as bad things for a youth to have?

Your afraid that an understanding of such things might develop into a growth in their value system?

Where exactly are young people harmed by the goals of LFL?

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Bob:

I never said I was against values or teaching them so don't try to put words in my mouth. Atleast read my first post on this subject.

BSA does a great job of teaching them. However right now BSA has enough problems recruiting and retaining boys and leaders. The BSA does not need to create competition for itself by trying to do BSA lite. As far as I am concerned, youth can come join the BSA or go someplace else to learn values, the BSA does not need to water itself down to appeal to the masses.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

I read some of the info on the posted web site, thank you very much Bob. FRankly LFL sounds like touchy-feely BS, like BSA lite.

"Learning for Life is designed to support schools and other youth-serving organizations in their efforts toward preparing youth to successfully handle the complexities of today's society and to enhance their self-confidence, motivation, and self-worth."

SeattlePioneer:

Sorry but I'm a bit stunned at that kind of an action. If they don't want to eat let them be hungry. Just the same as the kids getting wet if they don't set up a rain fly. Experience will teach them. I don't think the BSA is some kind of youth boot camp.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

I want to know why Scouting is promoting a program whose goals we do not share. No business sets up its own competition and expects to survive.

I just want to know what is wrong with some people that they think they need to turn scouts into the personal appearance police? There is no policy about hair length or hair color or any number of other personal matters.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

The ACLU and other liberals will continue their efforts to kill the BSA.

Besides looking inside we also need to look outside. Let's be honest with groups like the ACLU and their liberal cronies out to cut the BSA off from access to public schools and other oppertunities to market the BSA to kids it becomes a lot harder to recruit.

KF5WT:

You are so right, heaven forbid we do something that national thinks we shouldn't.

Rip Van Scouter:

What is the difference to you of an experience such as Philmont that you did as a scouter but did not do as an adult leader that would cause you to have concerns about wearing the patch? My attitude about such things is that if you earned it you earned it and it doesn't matter when you did so.