shrubber

I know the COR can/must approve or dissapprove of unit leaders, but is there a criteria for committee members? If they are youth protection trained, committee trained ect, can someone say "no"?

How is it that a boy can earn Eagle without ever having to have lit a fire?

The only requirement I can find is for Wilderness Survival and Fire Safety that insist a boy light a fire. Neither, of course , is required for Eagle.

Kind of sad, no?

Now, I would not put much stock or faith in a Troop program that allows this, but rules are rules as they say.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A former Scout Master for a Boy Scout Troop in Cleveland Heights has been charged with producing child pornography.

Agents of the Cleveland Division of the FBI arrested Dennis Cahill, 62, of Shaker Heights, on November 24, 2010, after executing a search warrant at his home on Huntington Road.

According to Scott Wilson of the Cleveland FBI, someone contacted the FBI and tipped them off to Cahill's online activity with minors. Their investigation showed Cahill had enticed a minor over the internet to take and send explicit photographs of himself to Cahill.

Wilson says Cahill pretended to be a 16-year-old girl while interacting with the minor.

All of Cahill's computer hard-drives were seized from his home by FBI agents when the search warrant was executed.

Cahill is currently in the custody of U.S. Marshall's pending further court hearings in U.S. District Court.

If found guilty, Cahill faces up to 30 years in prison on the producing child pornography charge.

Wilson says the FBI is looking to conduct additional interviews with anyone who may have had regular interactions with Cahill. They are asked to call the Cleveland Office of the FBI at 216-522-1400

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This is about 20 miles from me.

news reports vary as to whether he was an ASM or SM. "Former" could have been 40 years ago I guess....(This message has been edited by shrubber)

""The thing is, that many people think that for some reason, being gay=being a pedophile. The evidence is in the opening post of this thread with the quotation marks around the word different""

If the age of consent in, let's say Colorado, is 16. How does pedophilia enter into the equation?

(This message has been edited by shrubber)

Yes, and if you discuss your advocacy of sodomy in a scout setting, you will be told to leave the group. Hetero or otherwise.

Homosexual men, advocating sodomy, and sodomy, being far and away the prefered method of attack on young men/boys, should not be allowed to serve as volunteers.

(That's a lot of commas. sorry,,,,,)

I look at it this way.

After promoting a great program for young men, the next major responsiblity of BSA is the safety of its participants.

And go ahead and flame all you want here.

The number one method of sexual attack on young men/boys in and out of the program is sodomy.

Why on earth would you allow an avowed sodomite a Leadership role?

a bit taken out of context, but...

Loving v Virginia was all about interracial marriage and racial equality.

Now you know that racial equality was MADE a civil right through the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Before that, racial equality was not a civil right. Same-sex "marriage" has never been a fundamental constitutional or civil right.

The qoute is:

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." BF

A little different ,no?

I don't think you fully understand what civil rights are. Marriage

is not a 'civil right'

Here we go again.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-scoutleader_16met.ART.State.Edition1.33ce8ea.html

"The Scoutmaster maintains a list of those qualified to give tests and to pass candidates"

That just means the SM can designate an ASM or the like to sign off the requirement. Why is that relevant to the discussion?

Quoted from: Advancement Policies #33088, pages 24)

"A Boy Scout advances from Tenderfoot to Eagle by doing things with his patrol and his troop, with his leaders, and ON HIS OWN"

"A Scout MAY be tested on rank requirements by his patrol leader, Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, a troop committee member

No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement.

That pretty much says it all. There are things the scout is supposed to do on their own. The edge teaching, saving money are examples. I believe this is an important aspect of the program. In order to live up to the Law and Oath( Trustworthy, duty to self ) and are not meant to be tested, rather they are meant to develop those ideals.

The advancement policy clearly says 'may be tested' for that very reason, otherwise it would say 'must'

Adding the testing requirement for these requirements is in clear opposition to the advancement policy.

Most if not all of the other requirements have the testing requirement built right in, don't they?

The scout is required to describe, to show, to explain, to demonstrate etc.

If it was the purpose of BSA to have the boy 'demonstrate' that he can teach EDGE, then BSA would have put it in the book,no?

BSA hardly seems to omit things from a lack of printers ink. These few requirements are meant to be done 'on their own' in keeping with practicing the oath and law.(This message has been edited by shrubber)

Beavah,

\"As a Scoutmaster, I might hire him for some small job and pay him, then check down the road to see if he saved some of it. Maybe a bank statement with his deposit records ("hey, what about that time I paid you for..."), maybe da envelope of cash from his safe at home, maybe his records of his earnings and saving. Yeh work with da parents to try to see if the lad really has learned the lesson of saving, but the lad has to satisfy his SM, not his parents. "/

It sounds a lot like you advocate adding to the requirements..

Hiring a scout to do a job, asking to see his bank book?

I'm not sure what that is, but it's not BSA,

If you want to hand out some sort of homemade Beavah's merit badge, for fulfilling your own requirements, go right ahead. But that's not what the scout is required to do.(This message has been edited by shrubber)

I am of the opinion that you need not read into or expand on what the book calls for in requirements. Doing so, would be adding to the requirement,no?

If it says, Demonstrate, then the scout must demonstrate.

If it says, Discuss, then the scout must discuss with the SM.

If it says, Participate....and so on.

Where the requirement says Teach, or Save....then they have to do just that, not more.

Isn't it possible, that this promotes doing activities apart from Scouting, in the troop atmosphere? That there are things that you can accomplish as a scout without having to be tested and confirmed?

Isn't this away to promote and enable a scout to live up to the Trustworthy part of his law.

I agree that a scout should be tested, and 99% of the advancements require it. I see a few that do not. Perhaps this is for the best.

Can all advancement requirements be tested?

How would you test... Earn an amount of money agreed upon by you and your parent, then save at least 50 percent of that money.

Demand to see it? Count it on the table in front of them? Demand a copy of a bank statement?

Or, do you take the Scout ( and his parents ) at their word?

Scoutnut...

Do you think it's necessary to test all rank advancement?

How would you test... Earn an amount of money agreed upon by you and your parent, then save at least 50 percent of that money.

Demand to see it? Count it on the table in front of them?

(This message has been edited by shrubber)

The handbook does not....

Each requirement is seperate.

There is no 4 Demonstrate

It reads

4a.Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope.

4b.Demonstrate that you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch.

4c.Using the EDGE method teach another person how to tie the square knot.

(This message has been edited by shrubber)

I don't think he left anything off....

The requirement reads

4.

a.Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope.

b.Demonstrate that you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch.

c.Using the EDGE method teach another person how to tie the square knot.

I read that just as it's written,no?

Demonstrate whipping...

Demonstrate how to tie

Teach somebody...

It does not say demonstrate you can teach, does it?

I suspect I know what the replies might be, but our SM insists that our younger scouts be seen teaching someone how to tie a square knot using the EDGE method, rather than teaching a neighbor or a friend and reporting back. Thoughts?