ScoutingRediscovered

And yet there is "honor among thieves." Honor is no indicator of good or bad. There is no moral connection to honor. A lot of people would like to think there is, but as organized crime and gangs realize there must become some code of honor to make the group/community work.

I think Honor has to be more than just trustworthiness. I think you can be trustworthy (i.e. do what you say you are going to do) without being honorable (e.g. to be revered for the quality of your overall character). When we say "On my Honor..." were not just giving our word, we're pledging our entire character to the oath. I've been struggling to think of an example. This one is poor but starts toward the point. A trustworthy man, if he found a wallet in the street, would turn it over to the police or maybe attempt to contact the owner, all without taking any advantage of the situation. If the owner was never found and he got the wallet back, he might keep the money for some personal gain. An honorable man would go the extra mile to ensure the owner was found. He'd hound the police if he ended up turning the wallet over to them. If in the end the owner was never located he'd donate the proceeds to a charity. That doesn't quite hit the nail on the head for me but it's close.

Because of that, I think it is helpful to explain honor in terms of honor groups like I tried to do in my blog post. When a Scout takes the Scout Oath, he is voluntarily joining an honor group with the standards codified in the Scout Oath and Law. After he does that, anything he does will go 'on his record' towards his honor or dishonor by the rest of the honor group.

Being of a military background, I'm sure the term Scout was chosen by BP as the type of soldier that did not operate within the normal operations of the military, but would instead, move out into unknown territory, prepared for any and all situations and be able to return back with effective military intelligence. Each mission would require the scouts to operate on their own, making their own choices, living off the land and returning safely. Early scout handbooks spent time talking in military terms, i.e. knights, etc. The uniform was patterned after the US military uniform of the time and served a purpose of a military scout.

 

Whereas we have dropped the military aspects and tried to retain many of the skills necessary for a military operation, I'm thinking the scope, focus, and intent of what BP envisioned has changed dramatically. After all, the things a military scout would need to know are now not always an option for the boys. A mess hall was for base camp operations of the military, as were established camps, both of which would not fit well into the operations of a military scout. He was not supposed to be in camp eating out of a mess hall. One does not need such things in the field under scout operations.

 

Can our boys go out in a small patrol (another military term, as is troop) and survive on a mission relying on their own resources and skills? Not in today's scouting, unless mom or dad go along to supervise. The intent of the BP model was to have boys prepared to do it on their own. That skill/aim/focus/scope is not part of the program. One might as well set the boys up in a gymnasium or computer lab in today's scouting.

It seems to be the thought of some today that the outdoors was included in Scouting simply because it was a popular boys' activity of the time because it played up to the heroes of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. That would relegate it to being simply a "fad" of the time.

I disagree. I believe the wilderness aspect of Scouting has timeless value. My study of the writings of Scouting's founders has also led me to think that they believed this as well.

I wrote a blog post on the importance of the Wilderness in Scouting not too long ago. Here it is for anyone interested:

http://scoutingrediscovered.com/campcraft/why-the-wilderness-wos-part-3/

I focus on what was the rational of the founders of Scouting when they made it to be a part of the movement. The main reasons that I elaborate on in the post are: Building Self-Reliance, the Spiritual aspect, and The Spirit of Adventure.

Thank you all for your thoughts.

@jblake47

"honor being the value of one's word and how well it can be trusted" I think that's a good way to look at honor.

@everyone

All Scouts will make mistakes in keeping the Scout Oath and Law. Where do you think the line should be drawn in the Troop's responsibility to hold a Scout accountable? In your experience, is the the accountability usually too strict or too lax?

I recently wrote a post on my blog "Scouting Rediscovered" on Honor and what it means to a Scout. It is the last post in a series on what I call Keystones of a Scout; the 10 qualities I believe help define what the Scout Spirit is. In it I also describe why I believe Scouting needs to be Rediscovered. If anyone would like to read it and let me know what you think, I'd appreciate it.

http://scoutingrediscovered.com/scoutcraft/keystones-of-a-scout-the-10-virtues-that-make-a-scout-honor/

I would also love to hear everyone's thoughts on what Honor really means, why our founders considered it to be so important, and if it is still important today. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Yours in Scouting!

@Kudu,

I see you are a fan of William Hillcourt; I am too! Baden-Powell, John Thurman, Dan Beard, and William Hillcourt are the top men in Scouting that I wish I could have met before they died. If you read through other posts on my blog, you will see many references and quotes from these great men.

I think, perhaps you are a bit unfair in making your distinction between the Patrol Method and the Patrol System, although I see where you are coming from. I know that many have called something the "Patrol Method" which is nothing of the kind. But just because the term can be misused doesn't mean that the "Patrol System" cannot. In my mind, both the Patrol Method and the Patrol System and synonymous and stand for the basic principles of the Patrol as organized by Baden-Powell and expounded upon by William Hillcourt and John Thurman.

I think you misunderstood what I meant in the "laying the foundation" section. As I summarized in the conclusion: "When new Scouts join the Troop, it is very helpful if there is already a proper foundation of the Patrol Method among the older Scouts. One of the Aims of the Patrol Method is that it is actively passed down from the older Scouts to the younger." This by no means insinuates that the Patrol System is only passed down by "abstract lessons". Like I said, much of the learning comes from observing the older Scouts live out the Patrol System as they go through Scouting activities. I definitely agree with you that Scouting is done actively, not through dry lessons. Although I would also say that there is a time and place for more formal instruction in Scouting if done properly.

I know that this has been a topic of debate for a long time, but I maintain that Patrol Leaders should be elected by the members of their Patrol, never 'appointed'. Appointing Patrol Leaders goes against the Patrol System. Firstly, it is saying that the authority over the leadership of a Patrol does not belong to the Patrol. This isn't in line with the Patrol System as I understand it. Secondly, elections provide a mutual accountability that is very important in the development of the Patrol.

One more thing: wouldn't a Patrol being an "independent and self-sustaining unit" mean the Patrol can operate with physical distance from an Adult Leader? Being an "independent and self-sustaining unit" is far from just an abstract principle; it is an applied principle, and that makes all the difference!

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and comment on it! I can tell you are passionate about Scouting!

-Enoch Heise

Thank you all for commenting! Sorry I haven't replied sooner; I've been really busy with a new redesign and upgrade to ScoutingRediscovered.com

@Sentinel947:

Thanks for the encouragement!

@qwazse:

> Interesting that you did not mention Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops.

While I think the BSA's "Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops" has some great information in it, I think it should only be used as a supplement to Leadership development in the Troop, not relied upon to be complete training.

First of all, it is too much of a structured classroom-like curriculum. While this is an appropriate venue for some types of teaching, it's draw-backs are obvious. In fact, Scouting was started partially with the intention to get away from the drawbacks of the common mass-instruction.

Secondly, I think the training of new leaders below the level of Senior Patrol Leader should be the S.P.L.'s responsibility, and the ILST seems to be rather Scoutmaster-centric.

In summary, while I think ILST is a great resources, I think that it is often used as a complete leadership package and thereby other important aspects of leadership training are neglected.

@Eagledad

Thanks for the encouragement! I think the post was a little disorganized, as I had some trouble organizing my thoughts (a little writer's block, maybe?). Thanks for checking it out!

-Enoch Heise

I was recently asked to do a post on my blog, 'Scouting Rediscovered' on the subject of how new Scouts can be taught the Patrol System. So I just published it today and would love to get some feedback on the post from you guys. Do you think I answered the questions accurately? Do you agree with what I said on the Patrol Method? Any feedback would be appreciated!

http://scoutingrediscovered.com/2012/09/29/new-scouts-and-the-patrol-method/

Thanks!

@TwocubDad

I haven't had experience as a Scoutmaster, just as a Senior Patrol Leader, but I thought I'd throw this out there. I know from reading and from personal experience that it is better when the Patrols consist of Boys roughly the same age. That way, the Patrol can grow together, and they are at the same general skill level so they can keep togther much better during activities rather than diverse ages wanting to do different levels of activities. It will be a little tougher at first as the younger Patrols go through the storming phase, but it will be better in the long run.

Like I said, I don't really have any adult leader experince, but this is what I would consider based upon my exerience as S.P.L. and what I've read.

I agree with EagleDad. Baden-Powell didn't intend for the Patrols to be split up every so often. Developing Patrol Spirit takes time, especially when some of the Scouts in a Patrol seem to be disagreeing a lot. While I was Senior Patrol Leader of my Troop, one Patrol in particular was having a lot of difficulty in getting along. This led to a handful of the adult leaders strongly suggesting that the Patrols be reorganized. However, it is my belief that part of the opportunity to grow in Scouting is through the difficulties faced. If the difficulties are simply avoided, then no progress will be made. Scouts shouldn't try to avoid difficulties, we should face them!

By then end of the year of my being S.P.L., I could see definite, albeit slow, improvement in the Patrol Spirit of all of the Patrols. They were starting to learn that they needed to depend upon each other. Like EagleDad said, it takes time to move the stages of group development, but only by going through the stages can the Scouts become members of Patrols which are the kind of Patrols that are crucial in true Scouting: strong, permanent teams which work together as one unit and strive to encourage each other in Scouting.

Unfortunately, at the end of my year as S.P.L., the Scoutmaster went ahead and rearranged all of the Patrols and appointed a few of the 'older' Scouts as Patrol Leaders. Naturally, the older Scouts weren't Patrol Leaders already because they didn't show up very much. Combined with this lack of strong leaders, the mixing up of the Patrols virtually destroyed Patrol Spirit, and I had the unpleasent experience of watching attendance and Scout Spirit decline in the Troop, and not being able to do anything about it.

Hello! I am a 17 year old Boy Scout and have a passion for Scouting and for the Boy Scouts of America. I am right now writing a book called: Scouting Rediscovered.

My Mission: To help the world rediscover Scouting in its timeless principles, values, and adventures.

In keeping with this, I keep up a daily blog on Scouting with subjects ranging from different Scout skills to my favorite quotes from Scouting's founders to information on the principles behind Scouting. I'm passionate about Scouting, and I want to spread my mission of Scouting Rediscovered to as many Scouts as I can!

If you get a chance, please vist and subscribe to my Blog: http://scoutingrediscovered.wordpress.com/

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Yours in Scouting!