RuddBaron

Does anyone know the procedure for getting re-certified as a BSA Lifeguard once the certification has expired?

"Mr.SPL, have you noticed the trash on the ground? What can be done about that?"

 

That is a fine way to handle it in some circumstances. But, to use my cliff example, "Mr. SPL, get those Scouts away from the edge of the cliff now" is much more appropriate.

 

The example you gave above, though, is still a means of directing. It's a not-so-subtle hint to the SPL that there is trash on the ground and the area needs to be policed.

A sliding price scale? Would you have to bring in tax papers? But then how is it fair to say to someone that they can afford it, so they have to pay a higher price for uniforms, effectively subsidizing everyone who pays the lower price (the revenue has to come from somewhere)? The prices are a bit high. Perhaps they could be lowered for EVERYONE. $70 for a campaign hat? That's a real deterrant to boys choosing the traditional Scout hat as a uniform hat. The shirt price deters Scouts from having both a short sleeve and a long sleeve shirt. The list goes on. So, cut costs, perhaps in part by reducing executive salaries, some of which can be quite high. However, it is done, either costs have to be lowered or less monetary surplus must be accepted in order for the price to be lowered.

 

Of course, National has gotten around this by making the uniform not "required" as such. If it was required, then boys who could not afford the price would leave. The reduction in numbers places economic pressure on national to lower prices of uniforms, thereby accepting lower surplus to pay salaries. Economics in action....

There is no kayaking award YET. However, there is Boardsailing, BSA, Snorkeling, BSA, and Mile Swim, BSA for the sports of boardsailing, snorkeling/diving, and swimming...not to mention Paul Bunyan Woodsman for the serious axeman, and Hornaday and World Conservation for the serious conservationist (though not a sport).

Close...Jeff Daniels. Yes, Jeff Daniels of *Dumb and Dumber* played (and very well) the role of Chamberlain in both Gettysburg and Gods and Generals. Chamberlain makes a good role model for Scouts because he was first and foremost an educator. He only was soldier because of circumstances.

 

I am not from Maine, though I have a lot of friends there and am very fond of it. I believe Maine was voted the number one place to raise children in the country. One person I know in a relatively large (for Maine) city has never locked his door.

 

Now...this is a much more pleasant discourse!

You have expressed my point well.

 

Perhaps ADHD is too touchy to discuss on this forum.

As I am now on the computer with my intial requirements, I thought I'd post them. As to the complaints over the badge, someone suggested to me that a "saddle blanket" emblem be used. Not a bad idea.

 

Requirements:

 

1. All Section I and Section II requirements must be met.

 

2. Candidates may choose to fulfill the requirements of either Section III or Section IV. Section III consists of jumping exercises, while Section IV consists of trail-riding/hacking.

 

3. A minimum of six months of riding time must be included after the Scout or Scouter has fulfilled the requirements for Horsemanship Merit Badge. This may be waived by the award counselor only in cases of demonstrated long-term horsemanship experience.

 

 

 

SECTION I:

 

1. Complete the Horsemanship Merit Badge. Scouters must have done this as Scouts or complete the same requirements as adults.

2. Show ability to mount the horse from both the ground and a mounting block.

3. Discuss issues of safety related to handling and riding horses, including the following:

a. Horse biting and avoiding being bitten

b. Horse kicking and avoiding being kicked

c. Being thrown from a horse or falling from a horse

d. Being stepped on by a horse

e. Being caught between a horse and another object, such as a wall

f. A horse spooking and/or bolting

4. Demonstrate how to handle each of the situations listed above.

5. Demonstrate ability to catch a horse in the field three times. No other horses may be allowed to escape from the field. The horse, once caught, must be safely led to the stable, paddock, ring, or some other suitable location.

6. Demonstrate how to enter a stall containing a horse safely, tack up the horse in the stall, place a halter on the horse, lead the horse out of the stall, and prevent a horse from charging out the stall door once it is open.

7. Demonstrate how to feed a horse in the stall.

8. Demonstrate how to clean a stall.

9. Demonstrate how to wash down a horse, particularly after a ride.

 

SECTION II:

 

General Knowledge

1. Discuss the elements of riding attire appropriate to your style of riding, including formal, informal, and schooling. Discuss the reason why this attire is worn in each instance, including the safety elements.

2. Have proper riding attire. This need not be expensive nor owned by the candidate, but must include proper riding boots, pants suitable to riding, and a helmet.

3. Discuss the differences between English and Western riding.

4. Discuss the following equestrian sports and activities:

a. Eventing/ Combined Training

b. Dressage

c. Show Jumping

d. Fox hunting

e. Endurance Riding

f. Thoroughbred racing

g. Harness racing

h. Trail riding / hacking

i. Western Pleasure riding

j. Ranch riding

 

 

Tack

5. Discuss the use of the following:

a. Standing Martingale

b. Running Martingale

c. Draw Reins

d. Breastplate

6. Demonstrate the use of three of the four items of tack listed in requirement 3.

7. Discuss the difference between the following:

a. General-purpose English saddle

b. Dressage saddle.

c. Western saddle

d. Australian saddle

e. McClellan military saddle

8. Discuss the difference between different types of saddle pads and blankets and discuss their use. Demonstrate how to use saddle pad(s) and/or a blanket as appropriate to your style of riding.

9. Discuss and demonstrate the use of leg wraps, boots, bell boots, etc., as appropriate to your style of riding.

10. Discuss and be able to identify the standard bits and bridles used in your style of riding.

11. Discuss the use of various aids such as crops, spurs, and whips, and demonstrate their use as appropriate in your style of riding at your counselors discretion.

 

Riding on the Flat: (All requirements must be performed on both leads, i.e., first going one direction around the ring and then the other.)

 

12. Demonstrate the ability to riding in a ring along the outside and perform 20-meter circles at two opposite ends at a walk, trot, and canter.

13. Walk forward at least five strides, halt at a designated point, remain motionless for five seconds, begin walking again, and begin cantering (without transitioning through a trot) within one horse-length. The requirement is not fulfilled if the horse moves any of his hooves during the halt.

14. Demonstrate the ability to shorten and lengthen the stride at the walk, trot, and canter.

15. Demonstrate the ability to perform a half-pass at the trot.

16. Back the horse from a halt, halt for five seconds, and walk forward. The requirement is not fulfilled if the horse moves any of his hooves during the halt.

17. Demonstrate the ability to transition downward properly from the canter to the walk and from the canter to the trot.

18. Perform a figure-of-eight or serpentine pattern at the walk, trot, and canter. This should be ridden around fixed points such as cones.

 

Riding Cross-Country:

 

19. Ride in the field on relatively flat terrain at the walk, trot, and canter.

20. Ride in the field over uneven terrain at the walk, trot, and canter.

21. Gallop cross-country using the proper galloping seat.

22. Discuss (and demonstrate if possible) how to dismount, open a gate in a fence, lead the horse through the gate, remount, and continue riding.

23. If a stream is available and it is not too deep or too swift to be unsafe, ride across the stream.

24. Demonstrate how to ride up and down a steep hill.

 

 

SECTION III (Jumping):

 

NOTE: All riders MUST wear an approved safety helmet, proper riding boots, and pants suited for riding while jumping in order to fulfill the requirements of this section.

 

1. Discuss safety precautions that must be taken while jumping.

2. Discuss what to do if your horse refuses a jump. If your horse refuses a jump during the exercises for this section, demonstrate the proper response.

3. Discuss the proper seat (two-point seat) for jumping and why that seat is preferred for jumping.

4. Discuss the various approaches that can be made to a jump and why it is important to learn to sense the number of strides to a jump.

5. Ride three times around a suitable jumping ride in a two-point / jumping seat.

6. Demonstrate the ability to jump over a 6-inch to 1-foot low-X jump at a trot. Show proper seat.

7. Demonstrate ability to jump over a 1 foot high straight bar jump at the canter.

8. Do one of the following:

a. Jump a course of five to seven jumps no more than 2 feet in height at a canter. The course is designed by the counselor. The rider must ride at a canter for the entire course to fulfill the requirements. All jumps must be taken in proper order without excessive riding between jumps.

b. Jump a straight bar fence of at least three feet, jump an oxer (or similar fence) in the same height range with one to two feet of spread. Jump a straight-bar gymnastic line in the same height range with three jumps no more than two strides apart.

c. Jump two cross-country jumps of height at least 1 feet and spread at least 6 inches. One jump must be downhill and the other must be uphill. Jump up and down a bank at least 1 feet high. Jump into and out of a water complex.

 

 

SECTION IV (Trail-riding / hacking):

 

NOTE: All trail rides must be done following the buddy system.

 

1. Discuss safety precautions that must be taken while trail-riding/hacking.

2. Discuss what to do if a horse bolts or spooks while riding in the field.

3. Discuss the benefits and/or drawbacks of various types of saddles for trail-riding.

4. Discuss the benefits and/or drawbacks of trail-riding at each gait, i.e., walk, trot, and canter.

5. Carry out a trail ride of one hours length. During this ride, ride at all three gaits and show proper awareness of surroundings.

6. After completing requirement 5, carry out a trail ride of three hours length. During this ride, ride at all three gaits and show proper awareness of surroundings.

7. After completing requirements 5 and 6, carry out a day-long trail ride. During this ride, ride at all three gaits and show proper awareness of surroundings. Suitable breaks for lunch, water, etc., may be taken. Time out of the saddle should, however, be minimized.

8. Demonstrate how to ride in wooded areas with tree limbs in the path of the rider. Demonstrate how to move the tree limbs and brush out of the way safely while riding. If such an area is not available, discuss the proper procedure.

9. Discuss issues of your horses health while on a trail ride.

10. Discuss proper procedure for trail-riding in inclement weather. If possible, demonstrate your ability to ride in the rain (but not a thunderstorm or other sever weather) at your counselors discretion.

 

I am faint with shock, for we finally agree. YES, good leadership does indeed entail all of that and knowing when to employ what method. Part of Patton's effectiveness was his study of many different military leaders and their styles of leading. This is why, whether we're a military group or not, we can learn from the examples of the people I mentioned.

 

 

First, I'm moderately impressed if you know who Joshua L. Chamberlain was. Second, their leadership skills were applied to MILITARY purposes out of necessity, but were easily applied to anything else. To use Chamberlain, he applied his leadership skills as Governor of Maine and as President of Bowdoin College.

 

And yes, here we go again with this nonsense about not having anything "military" because of Scouting being non-military. Of course a youth program is non-military. Aside from the 17 year olds, they're too young. BUT...one MAJOR reason B-P founded Scouting was the lack of preparedness among British youth for military service. The founders of BSA shared the same opinion of American youth then, and we are in a similar state now. BSA trains boys to be leaders and good citizens, ready to serve their country in any way needed, whether it is military, industry, family, etc.

 

Now, do you honestly believe the SPL, a MINOR, is truly in charge of the troop? Ultimately the Troop Committee Chairman has the final word. It is a fine thing to allow the boy leadership to run the troop, but there must be oversight. Ultimately an adult with real legal standing and responsibility must have final authority.

 

To use a military example, The Scoutmaster is like a Captain of a Cavalry Troop. The SPL is like, say, the Sergeant-Major. The Scouters are the officers, while the Scouts are the enlistees. Both SM and SPL can use a directing style of leadership to get things done while DELEGATING the authority of leading the Scouts mostly to the SPL. The two are not mutually exclusive. I cannot recall EVER witnessing a troop in which the adults NEVER directed the Scouts to do anything.

 

I don't know how much high adventure stuff you've done, but in that area a directing style is, as in the military, much more essential, whether it comes from SPL or SM. Boys going dangerously close to a cliff need to be TOLD to get away, not gently supported in their delegated responsibility of learning on their own that they should not be near the cliff. Scouts are still children.

Thanks to all who contributed their opinions regarding the proposed new horsemanship award. I regret that such an opportunity for Scouts was not met with more favor.

"I wish the scouts in your troop good luck. Because after reading some these threads, I worry for them."

 

Rest, rest, perturbed spirit!

 

No need for personal attacks here, though I stand, as did Napoleon, with my breast laid bare, ready to accept your volley.

 

 

Not "in charge?" I'm not suggesting Scouters be despots or tyrants, but ultimately someone must be "in charge" of the troop." That certainly isn't going to be a teen. How is that teen going to learn to be a leader himself in adulthood without adults to set an example of leadership.

 

Patton, McArthur, JL Chamberlain, etc. are excellent leadership models. Very effective. Tried by fire.

1. A knot for everything else? Other than the religious medal, about the only way that a Scout can earn something that has a knot is by saving a life. Horsey-back riding doesn't fall into that category.

 

** I was referring to the adult knots when I said there is a knot for everything. After looking at the list, one might think BSA is for the adults. Scouts can also earn the OA distinguished service medal and the Medal of Merit...plus wear the Quartermaster award and a few others. But, a patch suitable for right-pocket wear is fine. This is not "horsey-back" riding. It is a serious discipline of study no different than, again, the Hornaday award in scope of difficulty.

 

2. Campaign hat = cavalry?

Baden-Powell, who had seen members of the Royal Canadian Field Artillery wearing Stetsons at the relief of Mafeking, ordered 10,000 directly from the American company to outfit his constabulary. This was also the style of hat that he approved for his Boy Scout movement in 1907. From

Sounds like the artillery introduced him to the hat.

 

** I didn't say the cav INTRODUCED it, I said it was a favorite cavalry hat.

 

3. Should we also have an award (with medal and knot) for riding a bike, dirt bike, or running?

 

** IF such a medal is of the scope and difficulty I am proposing, sure.

 

4. Since Boy Scouts don't function as "scouts" and they don't attack or kill either, that connection is tenuous at best.

 

** Hmmm...stalking (and I mean of animals, not the criminal act) at least USED to be part of the program. I'm not an Army cavalryman, but the scouting function of cav does not generally involve attacking. The idea is, militarily, to observe one's enemy and SCOUT the way...much like BOY Scouts might track and stalk deer or bear. Great military prep.

Various doctorates, ole boy? Just how many does one need?

Jumping and dressage aren't useful? Try moving cross-country with obstacles in your path. (Like when the electrical systems shut down and the cars can't get gas, and the local BSA troop has to get a message to someone in the next town, but can't take the roads.)

 

There's no medal for BSA Lifeguard, but there is, again, for Hornaday, and a uniform patch for World Conservation. Of course, the exact method of recognition isn't THAT important. A uniform patch or simply a knot is fine. (There's a knot for everything else.)

 

Cavalry heritage as follows:

1. B-P was a Cavalryman and even head of the British cavalry.

2. Scouting is organized along cavalry lines. Troop = a cavalry company. Cavalry troops often go out on patrol.

3. The campaign hat was used extensively by the cavalry (yes, I know others used it as well).

4. Scouting? That's one of the two main functions of the cavalry, traditionally, the other being attacking/killing.

5. Etc., etc.

 

Why do we need to medicate when discipline and guidance works? Better to learn to control one's self with influence of drugs. I've seen it work plenty of times. A lot of it comes down to being raised improperly and medication being an easier solution to "little Johnny not wanting to settle down." While there are legitimate cases of ADHD that warrant medical attention, it has been diagnosed far too much.

 

Einstein wasn't normal? Well, perhaps his "abnormality" allowed him to see things in the new and different way that he did. Then again, maybe his genius only made him APPEAR abnormal.

Because of the cavalry heritage of Scouting, for one thing.

 

Is there even a plumbing merit badge? No, there is no need to create an expert rating for each merit badge. That would be ridiculous. The same basic argument you made could be made against the World Conservation Award, the Hornaday Award, BSA Lifeguard, Paul Bunyan, National Camping, etc., as "expert level ratings" of merit badge or other qualifications.

 

While we're at it, do we NEED Wood Badge beads? Isn't that just an expert version of Basic Scouter Training? Do we NEED Vigil Honor, Silver Buffalo, etc.? No, we don't. Forget Horsemanship merit badge. This would be to serious horsemen what the Hornaday Award is to serious conservationists.

Who do WE think WE are? WE are the adults in an education program to turn boys into men. Just like parents who are in charge of what the boys do when at home, and the teachers who decide what they do when at school, we are in charge at the troop. We're only talking about a few months to a year here. I realize that is a long time to a youngster, but really...they need to learn to deal with it.

 

Another way to demonstrate this is that, when I teach certain merit badges, they must be done over time for me to be convinced they know what they are doing. When it comes to Sailing and Horsemanship, my two specialties, I have my students do things beyond the requirements, but I DO NOT require this to earn the badge. Also, they have to do these things over time so what they learned sinks in. If they learn to canter a horse one week, it's usually at least a week before I will let them do their final riding test. Why? Because one cannot REALLY learn to ride in a week...unless you're David O'Connor the Olympic Equestrian Gold Medalist, and even he didn't learn in a week.

 

Is this holding them back? Maybe so. However, they come out as top-grade beginning sailors or horsemen. Both are dangerous. I need to feel they know how to handle themselves. More importantly, THEY need to know this themselves.

 

Hey, call me old fashioned on this stuff, but I even like the old Skill Award system!

Ah, twocubdad gets it!

 

The point about the size of the troop was that the entire troop was considered at the disposal of the EAgle candidate, and Scouts were expected to help out their fellow Scouts on their Eagle projects. In fact, many projects were camping trips. Mine was 400 miles away and took a week. So, with the troop tradition of working on the projects as a troop, that is a HUGE labor supply. My own project indeed had around 40 people working on it from the troop alone. It's EASY to get WELL over 200 man-hours. It's just a matter of the culture of the troop. In a different troop culture, such a guideline or tool for evaluation would not perhaps be appropriate.

 

Now...here's an unsolicited plug. Under "Advancement Resources" there is a new topic about an Expert Horseman Award. I would appreciate the views of others on this.

I must stand corrected on the blue card issue. However, in the case of things like First Aid, Lifesaving, etc., I must say I would support a troop who wouldn't recognize a merit badge knowingly performed in a half-ass (can I say that on here?) manner...policy or not.

 

Let me put this out there and see what people think....

 

I am working on an Expert Horseman Award that goes beyond horsemanship merit badge and is for the dedicated and serious horseman. It would be to horsemanship what the Hornaday award is to conservation. The requirements would be met with anyone qualified to be a horsemanship merit badge counselor. The award consists of a knot, a medal for youth, and a medal or neck medal for adults.

 

Currently this is being proposed via my District.

 

Let's hear those thoughts....

My dear Scouting Legal Gray Eagle,

 

Here's another one.... If an Eagle Candidate showed up to an Eagle BOR out of uniform, let's just say the BOR wouldn't have gone so well. There's no REQUIREMENT to be in uniform that I have seen. But...especially since the troop maintained a supply of FREE uniforms, there was no excuse.

 

And, while we're at it...most colleges have set requirements for a degree. However, the adviser, chair, and registrar generally have to approve all courses for a degree. At least where I went the individual school could make some changes. Courses had to be completed with a certain degree of performance to count. Having standards like I mentioned for an Eagle Scout does a good job preparing Scouts for real life.

Ruddy Buddy? There's a college flashback!

 

I'll go look at a blue card again. It's been a long while since I've done a merit badge, but I seem to recall having to have approval before AND after from the SM. But, I'm going to my Scout office today, so I will check.

 

As for the summer camp, the troop DID tell the Council. It told them that they would not acceot First Aid until the Council changed the quality of its program. In the meantime, the troop had a responsibility to maintain standards, especially with something like First Aid.

 

As for the troop not following the program, I must disagree. You may find it amusing that the SM when I was in the troop is a rather "famous" Scouter currently serving on National Committee.

Absolutely the requirements cannot be changed to include a time requirement without National's approval. The only leeway locals have is not to sign off on certain requirements that have not been done up to standard. But, I don't agree with holding back Scouts from advancement artificially. I was in a Sea Explorer ship that really dragggggggged things out in allowing the kids to do things for their requirements. Most frustrating. But, time in rank is different...even if moderately annoying to the boys.

 

There is something to be said for taking time, letting things sink in, and then moving on. This is why Brotherhood was added after Ordeal in the OA...10 months minimum after the Ordeal. It takes time. The tenure requirements worked just fine before. The whole idea of FC in a YEAR isn't that bad. What I REALLY have a problem with is this phenomenon I have seen where Scouts go away to camp a Scout and return in a week an FC. It's like this modern trend of feel-good education. If that's what they are going to do, then why not just have one rank before Star?

 

We're also talking about boys here. Six months or a year makes a BIG difference in maturity. Holding them at a given rank for a period of time allows a certain degree of general maturity (yes, I know some are more mature than others at any age) to be ensured for a certain rank.

The Troop Committee oversees all advancement within a troop. No, they can't add/subtract requirements. But, it is their role to determine if the advancement is carried out properly, by the rules, and up to standard. Of course the Troop Committee can refuse to recognize a Merit Badge if there is reason to believe it was not done properly. If I recall, there are places that troop leaders must sign on the blue card. One blanket policy was that our summer camp's First Aid MB course was never accepted. Why? Because you could half-do things and get signed-off, including passing off a ready-made first aid kit as one you made.

 

As for the hour requirement...yeah, you can take it to some extreme like 5000 hours. The 200 hour "guideline" (perhaps a better word) was a benchmark the troop committee and Scoutmasters, most of whom had significant leadership experience in business, government, military, etc., used to judge whether or not it was possible for a given project to fulfill the requirements (again, given the size of the troop).

 

Ok...forget the 200 hour guideline. Let's take it out completely. Let's say a boy wants to assign each of the 40 members of the troop one hour of lawn mowing while he "supervises" as an Eagle project. That won't get approved. Regardless of the numbers, it's hardly sufficient. Even if it was five hours per person (200 hours total), it wouldn't get approved. The point was that the committee demanded a demonstration of sufficient leadership, and while there may not be any WRITTEN requirements for this, a project must be of a certain scope in a troop like that in order to allow the boy to demonstrate sufficient leadership.

 

Why doesn't National set a requirement? Because a set man-hour requirement could easily be too much for small troops and too little for big troops. It would be near impossible to fit anything other than a bare minimum for all troops...like maybe 10 hours. But, I'm not a fan of setting a rock-bottom requirement. It is better to leave it up to the discretion of the local unit and Council to determine what is a sufficient demonstration of leadership. It does a great disservice to the boy to allow them to do less than they are capable of doing just because it technically fulfills the requirements. We are training boys to be men, not to earn Eagle rank.

 

It is obvious we will never agree on whether or not this action was adding a requirement or simply setting a standard. But, considering the District and Scout Executives had no problem with it, I'm not worried about this being done.