rtullier

Jamist649:

Just as you state in your post, in one of my previous posts to this thread, I described the hours and hours and hundreds of my own dollars that I have given to the Cub Scouts to date. Given that you don't know the people involved and their respective actions that were felt by many parents at the event to be unwelcome at best, and offensive to everyone present, you are, respectfully, not in a position to judge this situation and the use of the term "allowed".

To imply that you would like to use harsh language to make a statement is certainly not in the spirit of scouting. Not one other poster took the extreme position that you took and I will ask a moderator to remove your post from this thread.

BluejacketScouter:

What a wonderful solution! A great way to find the positive in any situation!

Thanks

Many thanks to all that responded. A lot of time and thought went into the responses and I greatly appreciate the experienced advice. I have learned a great deal from this discussion and will use that to make future scouting events fun and a positive learning experience for the boys.

I wrote the initial post immediately after the race and was a bit torqued up about it. I should have let it settle a bit. I struggle with being over-protective of my family and I sometimes have to "check" my response to a situation in order to provide my son with a good sound example for his development. Sometimes the primitive mind takes over and you go into protective mode with no filter and that is not good for the parent nor the child. Luckily, I had a filter on race day and we all came away with a good experience.

Thanks AlamanceScouter.

momof2cubs:

Thanks again for your time in thinking through these issues. I am not interested in laying blame, I simply want a more fair race environment and I am willing to do my part to make that happen.

I tried discussing the issues at the race. Having participated in the event I felt it reasonable to discuss it with the other leaders. Their responses ranged from indifference to outright nastiness about allowing the boys minimal repair time. It is only because of their attitudes that I would like to push it up the chain.

Thanks to everyone for their time in responding. This is one of many ways that the scouting community makes a difference.

This was our first year in scouts and we learned many lessons that will make the upcoming years both fun and a positive growth experience for both my son and me. All of the responses suggest getting involved; and rightly so. If I had not participated and helped, I would feel less justified in being critical. Just to set the record straight, this year, I made and donated a cabinet to store up to 144 cars for race day. It seemed like an easy task but like most things it took quite a bit of time to do it right. It is something that will last a lifetime and I am proud to have done it, not just for myself and the act of giving back, but for my son to see and learn from. My son and I made three dummy cars to run in races with fewer than three cars. I helped on the day of assessing and approving the cars as well as the entire day of the race, including clean up. I also was a co Den Leader for our Den.

As parents, I feel it is our right and moreover our duty, to provide an environment that is both safe and as fair as possible given the world in which we exist. If my son did not have a fair playing field in school, little league or wherever, I hope I have the courage and strength to ask for change.

Twocubdad:

Good advice about getting involved!

I have already inserted myself into next years race committee, and will do my best to make it a more fair race. It is a real struggle to be positive when you experience your children being treated unfairly. Instinctively I want to protect him, but at the same time I know I cant protect him from everything and I need to set a good example from which he can learn.

Thanks

Scoutfish:

Just to clarify my point about having an unequal disadvantage. I agree that all participants should have the freedom to weight their cars as they see fit. I meant that due to those differences, a problematic track will affect each car differently just because of the physics of each individual car.

ScoutNut:

I hesitated posting because of the sour grapes persona it might create. I honestly only want as fair of an environment as possible and let the best car win. Given a clean race, we may or may not have won, my contention is that we werent given a fair shot.

5yearscouter:

3.. I like that additional award you give! All of the rules that came up in my search gave the boys five minutes or less to repair the car unless it was damaged by another car or the track, in which case they got more time and an opportunity for more help. It only seems fair to allow a minimal time for repair. I think it teaches fairness and that you should learn from your mistakes. The main goal is for the boys to learn and have a positive experience.

4..My point here was that these car designers had knowledge of the track that no one else had access to, nor was given. I was not at all insinuating anything sinister on their part. It gave them an advantage.

Lisabob:

It is obvious that you assumed that I had no basis for pointing out problems. Please refer to my statements above about my involvement in the scouts. I never stated that I wanted to report the volunteers. I want to report the unfairness of the circumstances of the race without assigning blame.

momof2cubs:

As I stated above, I dont want to report anyone. I wanted to find out if there was a formal way to complain and therefore possibly give a BSA representative an opportunity to respond. If no one complains about an inequity, it is bound to continue. I figured that if there was a process by which a BSA official would formally speak with the Pack Leader, it would carry more weight and authority than one or more parents.

Could someone tell me how to report an unfair Pinewood Derby race? I would like to see the problem areas remedied before this Pack is allowed to run another race.

Track was faulty

The end block bounced cars back unevenly causing derailing of several cars which led to them being damaged against the finish line device and causing several cars to collide upon recoil and damage other cars

Misalignment at the track section interfaces caused car wheels to leave the track. No attempt was made to repair. Since the overall winners were determined by points which were derived from the finish position of each car, the scoring could not have been fair. Cars running in the damaged lanes were penalized. All the cars did not have equal disadvantage because of different weight distribution, etc.

Scoring and race runs were not proper

The software used to place cars for racing did not randomize the cars.

i. Division races were run with 3 rounds of races

ii. Each race within each round had 3 cars racing

iii. Each corresponding race from each round raced the same 3 cars against one another in the same lanes. So, every round was identical to the others.

Repairs to damaged cars was not allowed. This goes against every posted set of rules on the internet that I came across. This was NOT stated in the rules.

Overall 2nd and 3rd place were cars by scouts of 2 of the 3 familys parents running the event. The 3rd place overall winner was the scout whose parent designed the end block. Not a problem in itself but, they had knowledge of the track (ie the end block) that allowed them to design a car that could withstand the impact.

No official rules were given prior to the race

The details of the track were not disclosed prior to the race (ie, end block which impacted the cars)