rraffalo

Richard B: P.S. Not sure where you are in Texas, but my son was a Cub and a Webelo in The Woodlands, TX (near Houston), and we spent quite a bit of time at the summer camps at Camp Strake. Not sure if you are familiar with the area there. But, we moved to Illinois from there 3.5 years ago. Thanks again for any insight you may be able to provide tomorrow. Kind Regards~

Richard Bourlon... I don't know that this will get to Council. I've been trying to get the CC to speak with me to discuss potential alternatives, and he will only email me saying, "there is nothing else to discuss". Tonight I learned via email that the COR agrees with him, but I think that is more that they work closely together, rather than having both truly listened to the situation. Nonetheless, they told me I have until five o'clock tomorrow evening to tell them that I will fly back to Chicago (from CT) to join the other leader and 5 scouts, or they would work to replace me. Just

I think it should be recognized that I'm not suggesting breaking any rules. Two deep leadership is only spoken of in scout documentation in the context of Youth protection. We have that part covered. It also states that one leader is fine when traveling in a vehicle to a destination. A vehicle is a form of transportation and not limited to a car. A plane certainly qualifies as a vehicle. So, for those that are hung up on the black and white must agree I am correct. KC9DDI: I'm going to take your advice. If it doesn't work I'll let the CC replace me if he will not get on board, o

Ah! Thanks for your help... and great insights. I'm still not sure how this will work out, but I'm not flying back to Illinois with my son to satisfy the CC. If he doesn't support us and help keep us from financial hardship, then he can replace me and my son or tell the others that the trip is canceled because of his discomfort with one leader on the plane. That will be his choice. That is my position on the matter and I'm sticking with it. Any other scouting leaders that have been in a similar situation as me please post your example to this board now. I think it will be hel

But you can change that Moose Tracker. Join a different troop, change your Charter Organization, or teach the COR that most of this rhetoric about insurance is a smoke screen for overly conservative people trying to get you to do what they say. "Insurance" has become the bad cop. I'm a conservative, but not to the point of atrophy. First of all, most families have health and wellness insurance, even if it is Medicaid. If they don't they probably do not have a son in scouting. Second, it is not the COs insurance it is the Boy Scout insurance. Third, the Boy Scout insurance will pay

Any other people out there that absolutely agree with me on this? Any one else have actual examples like mine in this thread? If so, please post them here. Thank You!

Moose Tracker: I like Beavah's explanation on this... first of all we are all taking early morning, non-stop flights. Early morning flights experience less delays because they do not get backed up by other flights. We are talking 6-7am flights. Also, non-stops have no connection worries. I'm even willing to go to Fort Lauderdale the morning before the trip (a whole day early) in the event there is a snag that we would all be together as we trek in the car to Sea Base. Where I like Beavah's thoughts is that we can all imagine all the bad stuff that could happen. Heart Attacks of t

Wow! Such great advice from everyone. Thank you all very much! Oak Tree: I appreciate that you shared the common experience with your Philmont trip. In some of the travel instances you described is there only going to be one adult with two or more scouts? Now that I have all the great background from Beavah, Moose Tracks, Scout Nut, TwoCubDad, and the others... Is there anyone else out there that is going to have or has had this same scenario occur, as I am going through right now? Here's the Summary: One leader and multiple scouts, traveling and meeting another leader and

Beavah... more great commentary thanks. Cooler heads will prevail. In all those bad spots you mentioned, hopefully the CC will realize that while all of that could happen, even if it did the boys are in a public airport and their parents could easily go pick them up. It's not like they are in the Everglades alone at night! :-) Twocubdad: We latched on to an open trip this past winter ~ January I believe, and the trip to CT is actually a family reunion and the date may have been selected in February or early March. Just one of those Murphy's Law type of things where the family r

Beavah: Great advice... thank you for taking the time. Everyone: Is there anyone else out there reading this that agrees with the main context of Beavah? I have to say that if I had to hang around with the five scouts the other leader would be flying with for 4+ hours or even a day it would be no problem. All 5 of them are 15 years (or more) old and they would take better care of me than I could ever provide for them. Literally, they would be no inconvenience at all. We're talking about guys that have all slept on the ground at Philmont. The hum dinger of it all

ScoutNut and Moose Tracks: I appreciate all of your help and suggestions... It turns out the trek we are taking has a limit of 8 people and so since we are at 8 already they would be replacing us vs. adding onto our existing group. I will try to speak with Council but it is going to take me some research to find the right person to speak with. Is there a certain title at Council that handles Tour Plan approvals? Our CC tells me it's not his rule and it's not Council's rule, it is actually National's rule and Council will not be able to over-ride National. He is using them as the

Well... I think the CC may be waiting for my son and I to give up our spot, so that they can replace us with another adult and another scout that they would rather have on the trip... But, if they do that then the CC should be happy there is another leader flying from Illinois, and my son and I should still be able to go. There would be 9 or 10 people on the trip instead of 8. I'm just not sure if SEA BASE could accommodate a group that has one or two additional people at this point or if the limit is 8 people total for the boat that is reserved for us. Not sure~ Any further thou

Moose Tracker (and everyone else): There is no intention of mis-representing anything in the tour plan. We plan to put everything on the plan. This thread has never suggested hiding any of the details. What if we had separate tour permits? My son and I from CT and the others with one adult leader from IL? The other leader has two sons going on the trip and does not mind having the other three boys fly with her. Parents of scout #4 are fine with their son flying with only her as a leader in the airport and on the plane. Parents of scout #5 are fine with their son fly

I believe all the rules are being followed to the letter. All these scouts are 14 years of age and older. They are not Cub Scouts. I believe a Committee Chairperson has the responsibility to follow the rules as they are documented just as a jury is to make their rulings based on the law, not their interpretation as correct as their interpretation may be. In this circumstance I believe the interpretation is overkill.

See the paragraph just prior to "Safety Rule of Four" below... Common departure and destination points are a must. That is not really my problem though... I'm arguing that the airport in Florida satisfies the requirement of a common departure point and our Committee Chairman is adamant that it must be from our home base. I disagree. Does anyone agree with me given the black and white rule? Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings It is the responsibility of the chartered organization of any Cub Scout pack, Boy Scout troop, Varsity Scout team, or Venturing crew or shi

Does our troop Committee Chair have the authority to keep my son and I from going on this trip, or to replace me as a leader if I do not fly back to Chicago with my son to join the rest of the crew in departing from our home base? It seems he is over stepping his authority there because the National and Council policies state that you MUST have a common departure point and a common destination, but it does not prescribe that those points must be your home base or within your Council limits or within your home state. It is cost prohibitive for us to make that extra trip and I almost feel he i

Is it ok to have a "departure point" for the Tour Plan of a scout high adventure trip be in a state other than the state that the troop is based? Scenario: 8 people (6 scouts and 2 leaders) are going on a trip to Sea Base. One of the leaders and his scout son are going to be in Connecticut on a family vacation right up until the day before the Sea Base trip begins. Can the leader and his son in Connecticut fly to Fort Lauderdale separate from the leader and the other five scouts in Illinois and "officially" begin the trip in Florida at the Fort Lauderdale airport? There is still a 2.5 hour dri

The two people in Connecticut is actually one scout and one of the adult leaders on the trip. The other 6 are 5 scouts and the other leader. Youth protection is satisfied because you are allowed to have only one leader in each vehicle on trips and there is no one-over-one leadership of any scout. The leader and scout in Connecticut are father and son. The Committee Chairperson in our troop is telling us that everyone must leave from a common departure point in Illinois (our home base) or he will not sign the tour permit and send it to Council. Essentially, he wants the adult leader in

I have a question that I cannot find the answer to anywhere. With regard to tour permits: Has anyone had a situation where part of a high adventure crew was going to be out of town (away from their home base where the troop meets weekly)? In my particular situation, 2 of the 8 people going to Sea Base are going to be in Connecticut the day before the trip begins, and our troop is based in Illinois. The question is: can the DEPARTURE point for the trip, which is required on the tour permit, be in Fort Lauderdale, Florida? Here is the rationale: It makes sense that as long as we are n