purpledragon

I have a multilevel troop right now. There are various reasons I am multilevel. Right now I have 3 girls that bridged to Cadettes, 4 girls that are starting their last year as Juniors and possible 2 Daisy Girls starting.

I think one of my Cadettes and one Junior may become inactive. I will be posting that I am looking for more girls (and hopefully helpers.)

I honestly do not see any reason not to have a multi level troop if you have help.

I take that back. Here we cannot have any money earning events (except for money earning projects) unless all girls are in the 6th grade. This makes it difficult for the older girls to raise the needed money for their more expensive events. I decided that I will finish off the last juniors this next year and try to get more of the lower girls. That way I can split the troop into two and run it more in line of the ages like Boy Scouts ad Cub Scouts. That way the older girls will be able to earn what they need for their events and the younger girls have a group.

Besides this, I really do not see any reason not to have the different ages/levels in one group if you can handle it.

Oh yeah, I know about the participation. That i not the issue. If we sell one item for each sale then officially we participated. I have that one down pat.

No our trouble is that our ACT has made it a rule that we cannot participate in any running any events as a fund raiser if we have girls that are in grades below 6th grade. This makes it challenging to fundraise.

With the further restrictions on not being able to sell anything that benefits another company...well the options are really looking slim now.

What fundraisers have you had that have produced real income for the girls?

Thanks!

Hmm rereading my post I noticed a few typos. Just so people understand and have some patients with my typing, I am a bit dyslexic...so I tend to mess up typing. Anyways, I just wanted to warn everyone.

"We are constantly sabotaged by the division into tiny single age group units, lack of support for adult leaders. lack of a trained troop committee chair or sizable pool of parent volunteers."

Amen Cheerful Eagle

ROFLMAO about the cookie comments. Yeah aren't they fun? he he And on top of that the girls HATED the theme this year and were not that motivated by the prizes (yes I said it PRIZES instead of incentives ... oh no the GS police might get me).

Just wait until the fall, then you get to sell nuts and candies (or at least that is what we do here).

After I found a group to sponsor our troop we are not obligated to play the cookie/nut games any more. We participate until the girls are sick of it and then we stop. We cancelled our last weekend of booths because we sold out and no one wanted to be responsible to sell a whole case. (We cannot return any opened cases in the end of the sales.) The girls did burn out on the sales stuff quickly this year. They simply don't see the connection between selling cookies when they only get 50 cents per box. I can't say that I blame them.

We want to have a few money earning events, but we are not allowed. **sigh** My youngest scouts are in 4th grade and here your youngest girl needs to be in 6th grade. That leaves us with the money earning activities. We are still working those out. Any ideas?

Anyways, yes the cookie stuff is a huge production, thank god it is over.

Hi Everyone,

I am Jean. I have been away form the computer lately trying to survive school and cookie sales. I am a single mom with a boy and a girl, so I am involved in both programs. BS- my son stared BS the last 6 months of Weeblos 2. He earned his Arrow of Light and all 20 pins. He is now in a BS troop for the past 3 years. During this time he has been involved in a leadership/PLC continuously. He is a Star rank working on Life right now. He just completed a term as the SPL and is off this weekend to Brown Sea Training. He will be returning to Brown Sea as a Troop Guide this year. I only need my Out Door Leader Training to be an ASM with the troop. I am on the committee as the treasurer. I have been the treasurer for the past 3 years. Our BS troop started from scratch 3 years ago with 9 boys that just completed the 5th grade. My son is one of 2 left from the original in the troop (the other is the scout masters boy).

The girl... Well she started her GS career 3 years ago as well. Unfortunately that troop had a few issues and we eventually left it to start our own troop. Right now we have 7 girls in grades 4-5. Five of the girls are new to scouts with this troop, one has one year, and my daughter is in her 3rd year. We just finished working on a council's own badge for the JR and Brownie level. We will roll that out soon. I am working on trying to get the girls into patrols and to start the outdoor training skills. This next meeting we will be having a big combined ceremony for the girls to get their badges, patches, re investiture and investiture. WHEW! The troop got up and running the end of November, so we have bee busy with the holidays and then cookies. The girls want to go outdoors and be active in nature. I am struggling to get the parents to allow them to do this. I will start working on the 8 basic outdoor skills in 3 weeks. http://www.geocities.com/heartland/Pointe/9385/8basic.htm

Hmm, I started as just a parent. Then after 18 months I was asked to be a Co-Leader. I agreed or the troop would fold. During this time (another 18 months) I trained and learned about GS. It was with this training that I came to realize the lack of girl anything with the old troop and the issues with questionable practices regarding the finances. It was time to get a new troop. No one in our area will take more than 7 juniors so I was forced to start a troop so that my daughter could continue. Another reason I started the troop was to now turn away girls who wanted to be GS and to provide the girls more than crafts and only girly things. We will see if I can deliver.

Wow this is long, I better stop typing.

Hi Everyone,

I am Jean. I have been away form the computer lately trying to survive school and cookie sales. I am a single mom with a boy and a girl, so I am involved in both programs. BS- my son stared BS the last 6 months of Weeblos 2. He earned his Arrow of Light and all 20 pins. He is now in a BS troop for the past 3 years. During this time he has been involved in a leadership/PLC continuously. He is a Star rank working on Life right now. He just completed a term as the SPL and is off this weekend to Brown Sea Training. He will be returning to Brown Sea as a Troop Guide this year. I only need my Out Door Leader Training to be an ASM with the troop. I am on the committee as the treasurer. I have been the treasurer for the past 3 years. Our BS troop started from scratch 3 years ago with 9 boys that just completed the 5th grade. My son is one of 2 left from the original in the troop (the other is the scout masters boy).

The girl... Well she started her GS career 3 years ago as well. Unfortunately that troop had a few issues and we eventually left it to start our own troop. Right now we have 7 girls in grades 4-5. Five of the girls are new to scouts with this troop, one has one year, and my daughter is in her 3rd year. We just finished working on a council's own badge for the JR and Brownie level. We will roll that out soon. I am working on trying to get the girls into patrols and to start the outdoor training skills. This next meeting we will be having a big combined ceremony for the girls to get their badges, patches, re investiture and investiture. WHEW! The troop got up and running the end of November, so we have bee busy with the holidays and then cookies. The girls want to go outdoors and be active in nature. I am struggling to get the parents to allow them to do this. I will start working on the 8 basic outdoor skills in 3 weeks. http://www.geocities.com/heartland/Pointe/9385/8basic.htm

Hmm, I started as just a parent. Then after 18 months I was asked to be a Co-Leader. I agreed or the troop would fold. During this time I trained and learned about GS. It was with this training that I came to realize the lack of girl anything with the old troop and the issues with finances. It was time to get a new troop. No one in our area will take more than 7 juniors so I was forced to start a troop so that my daughter could continue. Another reason I started the troop was to now turn away girls who wanted to be GS and to provide the girls more than crafts and only girly things. We will see if I can deliver.

Wow this is long, I better stop typing.

1. Introduce yerself

2. Say a lil something about your involvement in Girl Scouting and any other scouting programs

3. You can include an update on your current Girl Scout program

AnneinMpls & Cheereful eagle,

Sorry about the late response, I have been going crazy with the cookie booths this weekend. When we went to ride and do our horse badges we only went for a few hours during the day. We needed to have the facility fax their proof of insurance as well. They had to carry a million dollar policy. Council needed this to be able to add the horse ranch to their list of approved places for Girl Scouts to visit. Something about the GS insurance, if we go to a non approved place and something happens they will not cover anything. SO that is the mystery about the insurance stuff.

As for the walk through, yeah that is part of safety wise. But when I talked to council about the facility now being approved (because I helped them to be ), that it seems that all of the required items for safety wise (the walk through, the medical stuff and all) should have been verified by council in order to have the site approved. I love to place that level of responsibility back in their court. He he. So all I needed to do was to follow the rules about the girls riding with the proper boots and all of that stuff.

Anyways, I hope this helps to clear up why they need the insurance info. (Well at least why they do it that way here in our area.)

AnninMpls I fully understand about the copyright for the material you have gathered and use. Do you think that you could please post the books titles, isbn numbers, and the pages that you have used for your handbooks? That way others can start looking for the information and we will be able to use it as well. I'd hate for good information to not be shared.

I am trying to get back into the older style for running a GS troop and I enjoy finding the older stuff to use (the stuff they have dropped from the program for some reason, like the outdoor skills and now this).

If you can do that I would be GREATLY appreciated.

Excellent Cheerful Eagle, That sounds Awesome! Too bad it is located too far away for us to check it out (unless we plan it as a trip... he he I will have to bring it up with the girls. But we will have earned our Horse Badges by then I am sure.)

First let me clear up one thing:

PATCHES and not earned per-say,you receive a patch for two reasons: 1) You attended an event and you get the patch as a keepsake. 2) You can earn patches if you follow a patch program, which are supposedly easier than earning badges. Because of this they are only allowed to be worn on the back of your vest/sash. (Similar to BS with their sash, or the jacket/vest they have specifically for patches.)

BADGES (TRY ITS or IP (Interest Projects) are earned. You much complete the necessary number of requirements to earn this award. As such these are worn on the front of the vest or sash (with the exception that if the front is full you may start adding them to the back).

As for the split troop, I personally will be dividing our girls by GS level. Why? Because of the huge differences between a Badge and an IP. However that does not mean that the patrols cannot be mixed up and the girls regrouped at meetings or outings as needed. One thing I dislike about GS is the lack of the mixed ages. That said, even with the BS I see the "bossy" and the attempt of some to alienate the younger boys. I suspect the only real solution is to keep an eye out and keep on them about living up to the law: "be a sister to EVERY Girl Scout", "friendly and helpful", "considerate and caring", Responsible for what I say and do" (and what I say by NOT saying anything when needed as well as what I say by not doing anything when I should do something), "respect myself and others", and to "respect authority" (for those times when the older girls are actually doing/saying the right things but the young ones just do not want to listen/follow). The law in both BS and GS is actually something I love to refer back to when the kids need a reminder. After all scouting is not merely just an activity group the kids belong to, it was designed to be a way of life for those involved.

"One thing I'm beginning to notice are some grumbelings from the younger scouts that the older girls are "bossy" and exclusive. Of course the complainer isn't the picture of gentle inclusion either; a bit of the pot calling the kettle black..."

It is this exact situation when I call on my "Leader Authority" to decide that the group needs to work on a specific badge. Figure out what one fits the situation best and have them work on it or the parts of different badges that are tied to what is going on. Example- Lead On (To learn about leadership), Model Citizen (to learn about how to be a good citizen in the troop as well), Becoming a Teen (has a section about freedom and responsibility), Being My Best (helps self esteem), Celebrating People (if you need to talk about differences and similarities in the group), Healthy Relationships (learning to get along with people), It's Important To Me (on values), Communication (you can go into the importance of communication and explain how "noise" and "hearing what you want" are problems in good communication as are thinking you sent the message you wanted, but in actuality you sent another message...how communication is a two way street and both parties need to take responsibility), and so on.

It looks like you might have just found another way to start filling out you calender for troop meetings and outings. You might want to introduce the girl to the concept of ropes courses. (Great team building opportunities there!)

http://www.adventureassoc.com/team/ropes-courses/ropes-course-challenge.html

Have fun!

Rumor has it that part of the new GS model is going to include some materials to help leaders to plan and lead the girls better. I do not remember exactly where I read this, but here are a few links to give you some ideas about the upcoming changes in case you are not aware.

www.gssjc..org/cin/fd/2008/Feb/programchanges2008.pdf

http://www.girlscouts.org/for_adults/leader_magazine/2006_winter/setting_the_pace.pdf

Either way things shake out, it will be interesting. I still hold onto the program direction of our BS Troop and will most likely continue down a road that parallels their program in many ways. At the BS troop level the boys are mostly boy run (with reasonable limitations where needed for safety and such). Considering our troop adds at least 20% in new boys each year, I suspect that they are doing something correct. And by next summer my girls will all be the same age that boys transition from a Pack to a Troop, that will work out nicely.

Hi Cheerful Scout,

I am have split off from a less desirable troop and just started a new troop as well. Right now we have 7 girls (which is the max most in this area have in a troop, and I disagree with that--- but that is a topic for another post). 5 of the girls that just joined have no scouting experience. One girl split with us and she sort of has one year experience (the less than desirable troop thing again). Then there is my daughter. She has 3 years in GS, but all with that same above mentioned troop. She has however been to her brothers BS meetings and sees what they boys do.

So, this is what he have done thus far. I explained to the girls that it was their troop and that we would do what they wanted, but with in reason. That some of the things they want might not be an option and I gave examples to them. I asked them what sort of activities they wanted to do. They were very clear on a few of them...including going out on weekend camps to get away from their parents. (lol) They lie math, science, sports, camping,crafts, and playing the games we have each meeting.

I explained to them what a Bronze Award was. I have a workbook on my website (check it out if you would like: troop31668.org). I had a few copies of it so they could look at it, I explained that even though this was their troop that sometimes the adults (leaders and even parents) might pick what they do. That this would not happen that often, but if we saw a need that really needed to be addressed or filled that we would do that. I gave examples when this might happen and why. They agreed that this was acceptable.

I told them that part of scouting involves ceremonies that are important to traditions and that we would be doing things that are traditional.

I also explained that part of GS is having the opportunity to earn their bronze, silver, and gold awards. Because of this I told them that we would be doing the requirements for these awards so that any girl that wanted to earn the award would be able to do so. I explained to them about girls that decided that they wanted to earn an award at the last minute and because the basics for the award were not earned they ran out of time and did not get to earn the award. I explained that they did not have to earn the award and if they did not want to earn the basics to get them set to earn the awards that was okay, but it was my job as a leader to make sure that they had the opportunity to earn it if they wanted to. They agreed that this sounded reasonable.

I then had them look through their badge books and each pick the top 5 badges they wanted to work on. At the next meeting we make a master list that includes each girls top 5 (usually there will be repeats). From this list we vote. The then find the top 5 from our master list. That is were we start. After you have earned those five you go on to the next five until all of them are earned (or every girl votes to drop a badge from the master list). We complete all of the badges in the master list, because that is fair to the girls. I explain that maybe a girls favorite badge might be voted close to the bottom, and that she participated in all of the other badges, it is only fair that we complete hers. Usually there are a few at the very bottom that get voted off the list (100% of the girls needs to vote it off). Then we start all over again.

I also encourage the girls to work on their own or in smaller groups on a badge if they would like. I have a form (for Juniors) on my site they can use when they work on their own badges. It helps both of us to keep things organized.

Of course we will add in some badges, like right now we are finishing up Cookie Biz and the Cookie Pin because it is cookie time.

My new troop finally came together (meaning we went from 2 girls to 7 girls) in November. SO we are pretty new. I have four 4th graders and three 5th graders. Next year we will be running a split troop.

I hope this gives you some suggestions and ideas. I truely believe the troop is for the girls and run by the girls as much as possible. It is my goal to put this in action. Yes, I think piggybacking on a BS Pack or BS Troop is also a great idea. We are a sister troop to a BS troop. Eventually if they girls want to join a venturing crew, they will have a connection to the one that will most likely form from the BS Troop we have. Many parents have said that if there is a desire to have a VC they are willing to help run it. All three my GS troop, the BS pack and the BS troop are sponsored by the same group, and have connections that way as well.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Hi Cheerful Eagle,

Are you going to be doing a troop badge or a council's own badge?

I was just wondering. My troop will be working on a council's own JR badge next week. We were advised by the council to look for patch programs that related to the badge the girls wanted to do. We will be going over these at tomorrow night's meeting and we will have a guest speaker attend next weeks meeting when we will work on the badge. It sounds like fun.

The only things so far was the quest speaker. She wanted to do the badge for the girls and tell them what they should include. I had to remind her that we can give suggestions and encourage them to think in certain ways... but in the end it will be up to the girls. It should be interesting to see what they come up with.

Let me know how your badge works out. It sounds fun!

Hi Gunny2862,

They split the topic talking about crews and such. Check it out:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=180952

There may be more information there as well. I hope this helps!

Yes, about the GS changes. We have actually began the changes this past October (2007)[They changed the ages/grades for the different levels and added one to the top called "Ambassadors". Now every level will last for two years with the exception being Cadettes, they will last three years.].

The next big phase is rumored to hit Fall of 2008. If I understand this one correctly they will phase in the "Discover", "Connect", and "Take Action" parts they are adding to the levels. For an example look at this years cookie pin activities. The format will be the same as in they will divide things into three basic areas. How exactly this will work with their badges and such no one is exactly sure...but I suspect that it will be interesting to see.

We have another Venturing Crew (VC) in the next city (about 10 mins. drive from here ... so very close) that is associated (however they do so) with a troop that we split off from. (Our troops are still on good terms with each other.) My observation on VCs is based on my limited interaction with this group.

Here is the background of our troop. We started two and a half years ago with nine boys that had just bridged to BS six months earlier. We have averaged a gain of close to 17 boys each year since from bridging. Many of our boys are involved in sports or other activities. We have lost some along the way as well. Of our original nine boys we still have two, one Life and one Star. We gained our only oldest boy (a Life Scout) who also is our only boy who had previous BS experience (as in not bridging up from cubs) about five months ago. He moved into the area from back east. Our older boys are only thirteen and one is fifteen. We have about 40 boys in the troop right now (but we are starting to get our bridging boys, of which we expect about 10 more). We have two Life Scouts, one Star and twelve First Class. Of the 40 boys 12 just joined in the last month and 4 others in the past six months. This city has one other general BS troop and 4 LDS troops. We actually get feeder boys from two other packs out of our city.

Now let me lay to rest the venturing patrol/crew issue. Our boys have a mixture of high adventure and not high adventure within their troop activities. We do not have enough boys of the proper age for a VC right now. The boys have decided to not create a special venturing patrol, they want the activities open to anyone who chooses to participate and who are qualified to do so. Our last high adventure outing was a backpacking trip to the top of Half Dome. The boys completed this in a weekend (it is close to ten hours to drive round trip to Yosemite from here.) Some of the older boys have talked to people from the VC (mentioned earlier) and are interested in starting one. This crew describes themselves as a water based crew (they focus on water based activities). The boys are talking about a camping/backpacking based crew (because they want to focus on camping and backpacking trips).

The SM is not just starting a crew, the boys have voiced an interest and have been told that when they are old enough we will start one. This crew is not being started to keep the older boys interested in scouting, the boys want a crew (at least at this point).

Thanks to Oak Tree for mentioning But in practice that's just often not the case - and it seems a little much to jump on this particular statement by purpledragon.

This is what I had observed for a VC and what I had partially felt by reading ScoutNuts post. Then I realize that ScoutNut does not know all of the details of our troop and cannot be expected to mind read them, so I figured that the full situation was misunderstood and responded based on what ScoutNut thought might be going on instead of what was going on. In the end I did get more information to think about.

Welcome,

I read your intro. and started to nod in understanding. I too had terrible issues getting my daughter into scouts (I was on the wait list for 3 years. When I found a troop on my own and called to let them know they could take me off the wait list I found out that they actually did not have me on it at all! Go figure.).

After that we were in the troop .... well not a good troop it turned out. So I truely feel your pain. Here many troops run a the minimum level. They refuse to take more girls and the ones they take are all from the same school and the same grade...very cliquish.

I have no doubt that we could swap GS stories well into the night. Another issue here is that the SU person (sorry I don't know her exact title) just tells people that they need to be a leader if they want their daughter in scouts. Which is a bad situation and ends up excluding many girls from scouting.

I managed to get my son in an awesome pack. He was a Webelo for exactly 6 months. In that time he managed to earn all 20 pins and many belt loops. He loved scouting. Because of this my daughter grew upset that she did not yet have a troop. As the time has gone on my daughter also saw her brother in a great troop while hers was....well lacking. In the end I became a leader for a troop. This troop is Juniors (4th and 5th) right now. We are going to be active in outdoor activities and I have researched about the missing outdoor skills that are now missing from GS. We are sponsored by the same group our BS troop is and we are their sister troop and they are our brother troop. In time I will help lead a Venturing crew with the BS troop. The scout master is looking forward to this in time. The goal is to get my GS troop able to go into the Venturing Crew if they chose when they are old enough. I will be with the BS troop and following their ways when needed to get the "outing" back into Girl Scouting, and to create a GS troop that the girls will actually not drop out of.

You are right, you basically have the three options you mentioned. Unfortunately, at one time or another your girls will not be allowed to tag along with the boys. I never had this option as mine started BS when the girl joined a GS troop. Seeing how important it is to both of my children I decided to support them in scouting (unlike my ex who hates scouting). I too like outdoor skills, cooking, crafts, outdoor outings, and believe in community service as well as having my children in a group to learn the dynamics, to grow and to become leaders.

My a good friend of ours has an autistic boy and two girls with their own learning disabilities. I truely understand the added complexity of your situation.

Hi all,

I am a single mother of two. One boy scout and one girl scout. Right now I am a GS leader and the last weekend in Feb. I will finish OLS which will be my last training to be an ASM for BS. I am also the treasurer (and thus a committee member) for the BS troop.

My son is currently a Star scout working towards his Life rank. He is currently the SPL of our troop of roughly 40 scouts (but we will most likely be adding 15-20 more this next month). Our troop started 2005 with 9 original boys. We have three of the original boys (mine included). This BS troop is a great troop and has an awesome group running it. It will continue to grow strong for years to come.

My daughter is a Junior bridging to Cadette this summer. I ended up taking on a new troop this year after our unfortunate start with her first troop. We stayed part of that troop for three years, but we needed to split off and go in another direction. We finally have build our new troop to 7 girls (mixed 4th and 5th graders). This new troop is challenging the local ideals (such as: all of the girls in a troop need to be of the same school and the same grade). We have girls from four different schools and two grades. We are also planning to be one of the very few if not the first in this area to actually get the girls outdoors (and I mean more than car camping). We also accept girls beyond the 7 we have (unlike many of the troops here).

So, that is the highlights of both my GS and BS involvement at tis point in time. I look forward to reading the forums.

Thanks for the replies. I do not remember having a big Award Ceremony when I was a GS nor have we had one in the four years I have been involved as a leader.

I asked my question because we now have a sponsor (who also sponsors my son's BS troop) and they asked about our event that is similar to the BS R&G / B&G. That is when the sponsor group usually visits the troop and gives us our sponsorship check and sees the boys and learns about some of their accomplishments. Our sponsor wanted to have this same opportunity with our GS troop.

I had to think for a bit about this question and I was not sure if it was just this area or if all of GS did not have such an event. After thinking about it, I think our GS troop will celebrate such an event in March (as it follows all of the same logic as the BS February meeting does, except for the joint B-day which is celebrated by World Thinking Day in the GS community). Then I decided to post here to see if anyone had other information that I may not know about.

I appreciate the extra effort ScoutNut went to in the post. I am sure it will provide background information to anyone reading this who may not be as familiar on this topic.

On a side note, ScoutNut... here we have a "Red and Green" (for BS) and a "Blue and Gold" (for CS) the weekend after the Boy Scout Sunday in honor of scouting and this COH is a bigger one that the rest of the COHs held throughout the year. Council appoints a theme each year for this one COH. This years theme is "Chinese New Year".

Awesome. Thanks for the post. I have added this story to our scout website for all to read. This was a wonderful addition.

I was recently asked if the Girl Scouts had an equivalent to the Boy Scouts Red/Green and Blue/Gold. I have no idea, so I would like to hear from others.

Thanks for you responses.