MVScouter

For all you skeptics, check out the Cascade Pacific's Silver Beaver Association newsletter. You will read exactly what they do, when they do it, and who are the recipients of their efforts. You will also read their mission statement, which is a segment of the Silver Beaver Assoc. creed. There are many other councils putting forth the effort. How successful are they? I can't answer that question. All that can be done is to try. How can anyone pass judgement without reviewing and analyzing how it would function and act once such an assoc. is created.

As to the opinion of "another way for the Council to raise funds", just think of all of the ways Councils are doing this already. I've always felt that everything about Scouting is overpriced, but we all know why. Dues paid by the members would go back into the assoc. completely, unless the council wants its cut.

To address the "scouting club" issue, I could make a somewhat valid arguement that District or Council committees are clubs from a certain perspective. Members are generally seasoned scouters who can possibly think of themselves as elevated beyond "the unit." They wear a special patch. They make decisions that effect the units. They stand in front of crowds and make announcements and speaches. They use their knowledge to benefit of other scouters. Do these attributes make them stand out? Are they special? Or are they just a part of the "team," doing specific jobs and activities for the good of all. What is the difference? What is the definition of a "club", as it pertains to scouting. Someone enlighten me.

MV Scouter

Wow! It looks like another can of worms as been opened. Such negativity and scepticism. It looks like some of you guys went out of your way to view my previous posts from many years past, comments I have forgotten long ago. I don't have to defend what I wear on my uniform to anyone, and if anyone takes issue with it, that's your problem. Enough of that!

Did any of you take a few minutes to stop and think what kind of positive influence a group of experienced scouters could have on scouting's youth? This would not be some "scout good ole boys and girls club". If that where you are coming from, don't give this idea a second thought. Why is there an Alumni Association, the NESA, Council Eagle Scout Associations?

Do Scouts just pay their dues and brag about being a member? Maybe some do, but that is not the basis of my motivation. Those types of BSA organizations serve a specific purpose and so would a Silver Beaver Assoc.

Let me give one example of how a SB Assoc. can serve the scouting youth. Why not create a Silver Beaver scholarship that can provide a scholarship to a few outstanding college bound scouters. Another example would be assist in helping inner city youth. Our council has BSA's first urban base camp. The SB Assoc. can encourage inner ciy youth to attend this base camp and partake of its programs. Perhaps you can think of other areas where such an organization can use it's talents and experience.

I found at 5 other councils that already have Silver Beaver Associations, and there are probably more. Are they frivolous or unconsequencial? I can safely assume that any of those members would beg to differ with the opinions from desertrat77 or SeattlePioneer on the merits of such an organization. Let me state the obvious: Silver Beaver scouters were nominated by their peers, just like OA Vigils. They were evaluated by their actions and how they served scouting, whether it is through a unit, a district, a council, or any combination. That should answer the question distinctly.

And basementdweller, if that is where you live, if I am misguided, perhaps I should give back my Silver Beaver award because I guess I just don't understand what it signifies. Ya know.

I wasn't sure if this is the correct forum for this post, but here goes. I am currently spearheading a movement to establish a Silver Beaver organization in our council (Northern Star). I have made inquiries and have contacted our council scout executive and scout professional for advancement. They are in favor of the idea. I would estimate that if we can go forward, I would anticipate upwards of 75-100 Silver Beaver scouts joining the association. Our council typically awards 20-26 Silver Beaver awards every year.

I am asking anyone reading this post if they have a Silver Beaver Association in your council and if you are a member. How many members do you have? Do you have officers, such as a president, secretary, etc? How do you help your council and its youth, in what areas and in what ways? How often do you meet?

Any information that could shed some light on what you do would be most appreciated. I am making a presentation to our

council advancement committee this month, and I am attempting to gather information form other councils that have Silver Beaver Associations.

MV Scouter

Don't the people who design the scouts shirts ever ask the scouters who wear them for their opinions? If that was remotely true, I doubt we would have seen that new Venturing shirt, which I will not buy, and the new Boy Scout shirt that a large majority of scouters did not like. The theory behind the design had its valid points, and may have been practical, but it was not appealing visually.

I have an idea. Many adult scouters have multiple positions, like me. I have 3 shirts (one is Venturing). Could they design an area on the left sleeve, some kind of velcro deal, whereby you could interswitch positions patches easily? Hummmm. That may not work since you would have to velcro the patch also. Any ideas?

MVScouter

What is an Alumni? If I understand the term correctly, without looking the definition up in the dictionary, an Alumni individual is a person who has belonged to an organization, such as a University, a civic group, or it could be an association with the military, but is no longer an active member of that organization or group. However, they may still lend support to that organization, whether it be financial or otherwise. So, what is a BSA Alumni? Is he or she still a registered scouter? That would undermine the definition, it its truest sense. If this is the case, why was the award created? It would be assumed that it is only meant for former BSA registered members--Alumni. Unless, the requirements are based on some other criteria that would support it being aquired by an active BSA member, why create a knot for a former BSA active member? I'm just speculating. of course. I'm just waiting on another big storm that's supposed to jump 8" more inches of snow on us. Winter is harder to stomach each year I age. (59 next month)

MVScouter

Your right. The requirements will not be posted anywhere for several months. If you were to go

to your local scout shop, I would bet anyone $100.00 that they would not have a clue as to

what the Alumni Award is.

MVScouter

I was glancing through the Scoutstuff website and I found a new BSA knot, the Alumni Award. Does anyone know anything about it. I could not find any information on it anywhere, including the National website.

MVScouter

Okay, here is my post, for what it's worth.

I read many of the posts on various topics and I think many readers are far too analytical and "over opionioniated" (if that is a word). I have 3 scout shirts (1 for Venturing) and I wear all 14 of my knots on all 3. Does that make me an egotist in some manner? If you want to view an "egotist" in the truest sense of its definition, just listen to any of the politicians in Washington DC. They do nothing to improve our country and only worry about their positions of power and their Swiss Bank Accounts.

I have been an adult scouter leader for 10 years. I just received the Silver Beaver Award last March, so someone must think I'm an asset to my District and Council. I am in Scouting for a multitude of reasons, but primarily, beacuse of the enjoyment I get working with the youth. Unfortunately, I am not afforded that opportunity as in years past, because I have a District and Council position, but I am seriously thinking about becoming an Assistant Scoutmast again. That would mean giving up being a Unit Commissioner, but that would not be easy because I would need to find my replacement, and we are short on commissioners as it is, but I degress.

So, am I a walking billboard? A Mexican General? If you knew me, then you could judge me, if that was your desire. I wear what I've earned and been nominated for. I am proud that I am a part of the best "World" organization for youth on this planet. Yes, my pride extends to my uniform, and I am not alone in that regard. Just about every other adult scouter at District and Council meetings wears all of their knots, jamboree patches, etc. also, and I see and talk to quite a few. Several times, an adult or youth will come up to me and ask, "what is that knot? How did you get it?" I politely answer them, but I also take the opportunity to ask them about what they are doing in scouting. I've recruited a few people when striking up a conversation about my uniform.

Personally, I don't care what others think. I will just go about my business, that of Scouting.

Lastly, this could be my last post on this forum, not by choice, but by design. Enjoy your scouting activites and events while you can. Many of us have created happy memories we will keep with us for the rest of our natural lives. All things change. Some evolve, some die away, perhaps to never return. Change is a universal constant, and drastic changes are occuring now. Will Scouting continue? I will leave you something to contemplate.

Adios my scouting friends.

Wes

Many in my district wear our district patch, most below the American Flag on the right sleeve. Our district patch was created by our former District Commissioner. I wear it on my UC uniform and District Committee one as well. Several other districts in our council also have district patches. I have never heard of any flack over its use. It's my opinion that our council tolerates its display since the professionals have done nothing to stop the practice. Every council differs in their policies, even when it may differ from National.

I wear the patch as a matter of pride because I am very proud of my district and its volunteers who serve it. Is a District an entity unto itself? Any thoughts?

I called National Supply and spoke to a guy who had no idea what it was. Then he did a little digging (while I was still on the line) and said it was a custom badge from my council. I told him that I had read on this forum that is was available from other scout shops across the country. He put me on hold again and finally found it somewhere on his computer. He still had no idea what it was, why it was, or where it went on the uniform.

I am the founder of my Venture Crew, in 2006. If this is a Centennial patch, then it must be connected to the 100 Centennial somehow. Otherwise, if not, I would speculate that any Scout that has folunded a unit can wear it. Where? Got me? Pick a spot.

Eagle: For the reasons others have stated eliquently.

#2--My 2005 Chief Scout Executive Patch from the National Jamboree. I was told they only

distributed 200 of them. I was one of the lucky ones. I wear it as a temporary patch on my

District Committee Uniform.

#3--Distinquished Commissioner/District Award of Merit. (A tie)

I was awarded the Venturing Leadership Award from my Council. What device would distinquish this?

I am not a Woodbadger yet, but as a way to raise a few dollars for my OA Chapter, I sold a bunch of those World Crest Wood Badge patches and I always sold all of them at various scouting events, usually dinners. No one complains, and there are some instances when the beads are not prudent to wear, so the patch is the identity. Yes, it's not legal, but no one has ever chastized me for selling them.

As for the dark green Venturing knots, I ordered 3 for my shirt before Craig Murray was ordered to stop selling them by National. I've had several positive comments on them, as they match my shirt so much better than if they were kahki. Com'on National! Get with the program. Bring back the matching background knots.

I was just in our local scout shop yesterday and the guy I talked to said there is a new Venturing shirt coming out soon, although he didn't know when. I hope it doesn't have those stupid bellowed pockets. He did say the fabric will be the light weight blend like the new scout shirts, which I have refused to buy. I'll just keep my 2 old style ones--thank-you.

It's interesting to see how different many of the responses are. My post will be similar to many others, but I may differ in my reasons.

I value the District Award of Merit as #1. I was nominated by my fellow district scouts (friends) and that has great meaning for me.

#2--The Boyce New Unit Award. I was the first scouter in our District to recieve it and I was in the first Council group to be recognized. Our WD Boyce dinner will be in one month

#3--Eagle Scout. That says it all

#4--Distinquished Commissior

#5--Vigil Award

#6--American Legion Community Service Square Knot Award. I was the first in our district to receive this also. (Still the only one, as far as I know)

It's interesting to see how different many of the responses are. My post will be similar to many others, but I may differ in my reasons.

I value the District Award of Merit as #1. I was nominated by my fellow district scouts (friends) and that has great meaning for me.

#2--The Boyce New Unit Award. I was the first scouter in our District to recieve it and I was in the first Council group to be recognized. Our WD Boyce dinner will be in one month

#3--Eagle Scout. That says it all

#4--Distinquished Commissior

#5--Vigil Award

#6--American Legion Community Service Square Knot Award. I was the first in our district to receive this also. (Still the only one, as far as I know)

Did everyone catch the article on the BSA knots in the newest edition of Scouting Magazine? So now we know the exact number currently.

Sometimes I question the colors choosen. The Doctor of Commissioner Science knot looks too much like the Distinquished Commissioner knot. Only a gold border was added.

I think the NESA Lifetime Member Knot was unnecessary. If anything, they should bring back the NESA dangle to show membership.

Once again, I will say the one knot the committee should have added is for the OA Vigil Award. That is just my opinion. You can't buy that knot like the James E West or the Lifetime NESA.

I just heard the new Venturing Switchback grey pants will be available in Jan. of 2009.

My only comment of the choice of Venturing shirt, in whatever form is taken, the council strip and the crew unit number should be added, and the american flag also. Some kind of Venturing Logo would be nice also. Even if a crew wears Hawaiian shirts, they should identify themselves as a Venturing BSA unit somehow. My crew is wearing long sleeve hunting shirts because we are a shooting sports crew, and they wear those patches.

Boy, has this topic been beaten to death, but it lives on anyway. I've stated my position before, so here it is again: I just love scouting and all that it entails. Somehow, once you've been in it awhile, it just gets in your blood. I'm a CC for a Venture Crew, but I do mostly District stuff now, except I just took on the Council Venturing Advancement Chair position. (I have a problem saying no.)

For all I do in scouting, one of the byproducts of my volunteerism is being awarded occassionally. I have 12 knots now and I wear them all. Yes, I have actively sought out to achieve most of them, but what I did for the boys, the units I am UC for, and Venturing, I can only hope I made a contribution to make the scouting program(s) better through my efforts. I have been asked to speak at several Eagle Scout Ceremony's through the years. This is probably my greatest satisfaction in scouting, to see a young man reach the pinnacle of the BSA for youth, knowing he has the put forth the effort and will most likely be successful in his adult life.

There is no right or wrong on how many knots to wear, or which ones. Mike Walton wears 15 on his uniform. (He is Nationally known--the USSSP website, his own website on uniforms, Scouting Digest Magazine, and much more). Although, I believe it would be tacky to wear anymore. Oh yes, Craig Murray, Mr. Venturing in the BSA, has earned 18, but he wears 12. (Sageventure.com)

As to the new knots coming out--Philmont, Commissioners Doctorite, and that Speaker one, I say, so what. Everything evolves, even the BSA. There are probably a few knots that should be eliminated. However, I still think a knot for the OA Vigil Honor should still be established. I created a topic on that subject about 2 years ago--the forum vote was about 50-50, but I've given up on that cause long ago.

I read it on George Crowl's site. The link is below.

It has only been approved in principle by the national office, no design or date of issue has been finalized. I think this would be a rare one, but to those commissioners who persevere and are dedicated to their positions and the duties it requires, it is a justifiable

award.

http://www.crowl.org/George/History/IllustratedHistoryofKnotEvolutionPart2.doc

I was a staff worker for security and parking in 2005. Since I have never had the chance to go to PHilmonet or Seabase, I was very happy to be able to go, mostly because my son went also, and my wife decided to give in (for once in 22 years)

I actually enjoyed meeting scouters, not only from around the US, but from other countries such as, Sweden, Australia, Germany, and England.

It was fun to talk to them.

I am from Minnesota and yes the heat effected me. I was not use to it, but I drank enough liquids when I needed to. A Jamboree in the winter here? Only if we can have it in the Metrodome. Not everyone can handle the heat like the scouters from the south. I feel the military and the scouters working with them did a very good job with heat related sickness, especially at the Jamboree arena show (the cancelled one). I was standing on duty at the top of the hill and people were dropping all around me. Everyone did their jobs and no one died on that night.

I feel every scout should try and experience the National Jamboree one time, if not for the exhibits and action centers, then for the broad spectrum of scouters you can meet from other states and countries.

Okay, here's my slant on this thread. I have been a Unit Commissioner for 5+ years. My units of responisibility are a Pack (48 years as a unit), a troop, and a Venture Crew. I started that crew and I am the CC. Yes, I know that is not the best scenerio, but if it's okay with the DE and DC, than so be it.

I have been an adult scouter for 8 years (10 as a kid too). I have taken my job seriously my entire tenure. I am trained as a Unit Commissioner, although I have not been to Commissioner College because our council always held it on the 1st Sat. in Dec. and I had a family Xmas party every year on that day. My wife would have gone beserk if I had gone in one of those years (her side of the family).

But being trained was vitally important in my understanding the role and duties of a UC and how I would impliement them.

Yes, I have witnessed many UC's and ADC's not doing much, although, I believe our district has the highest ratio of commissioners in the council. But if they are not doing their "jobs", it's the units that suffer. My ADC has never called me to see how I'm doing. Fortunately, we had a very good District Commissioner who took his job seriously. He stepped down a year ago and his replacement, in my opinion, is even better. So we are lucky in that regard.

Here is my point. Currently, the pack I am a UC for had their Cubmaster cross over into Boy Scouts with his younger son. The CC resigned at the same time. After many meetings, recruiting, talking with parents, no one was found to take over those positions. This is certainly not an unfamiliar occurance, but it happens. So, the two most important positions in this pack were vacant. What to do?

Well, anyone who is a UC can plainly see that this is one of those times where the unit UC "MUST" help and advise in everyway, shape, and form. My idea was to create a chart that would be displayed and promoted in the front of the room at the Blue and Gold Dinner. All of the pack positions, plus all of the chaired events were shown on the chart. There was a columns for parents to place a name tag on the chart they would like to either chair an event, or take on the responsibility of a pack adult leader. It worked. Not all of the positions were filled, but they now have a CM and CC. Now we have to get them trained.

Sometimes we forget that Scouting for adults is volunteerism. No one forces us to do what we do. As in life, there are those who will be oriented toward a posture of a "service to self" attitude, and those who do volunteer, as in desiring to serve others. Then there are all of those who fall somewhere in between. We want to provide the best scouting program for our youth as possible. A Unit Commissioner is a part of the team that strives to deliver the tools and guidance a unit needs to make that program the best it can be.

I was the UC for a Venture Crew before the one I created. At one time, they had 32 members (mostly females). When the adult leadership fell away, as well as the youth officers, the unit died. I was unable to stop the bleeding, not that I could have. But I did try to save it. At least I had the presence to recognize that I had to try, as a Unit Commissioner.

Some have stated that UC's are reduntant. I don't see it that way. If I can do my job and make a difference or an impact on some level, no matter how large or small, to the health of a unit, then I feel my volunteerism to scouting is worthwhile.

Two nights ago, I was at our councils Venturing Roundtable and I saw one guy with a tan scout shirt and green shoulder loops. Sitting next to him was another scouter, a green venturing shirt wearing red shoulder loops??? What's up with that???

Evidentally, there still a large percentage of scouters uneducated on uniform and insignia wear. Isn't that a part of their training? If not, it should be.

Yes, I too have seen scouters wear the commissioner white arrow and that is not their job. I know of one guy, who is one the council committee that still has his white arrow on his sleeve, and he's a Silver Beaver. I have three uniforms and my white arrow is only on my unit commissioners shirt. In my opinion, DE's and DC's need to become more active in pointing out gross violations, otherwise newer scouters will see that misplacement of a patch on the shirt of a more experienced scouter who should know better, and think it's okay to do the same.

On that subject, it still gets me worked-up to see adult scouters wear a patch above the right pocket that is not a US Jamboree or World Jamboree emblem. One gal had her Wolf training patch there. Another, who has been in scouts for 7 years, put his summer camp scoutmasters patrol patch in that spot. If I were to say something to them, it would fall on deaf ears, so I don't bother.

I just read on George Crowl's website that National approved (in principal) a new knot award for Doctor of Commissioner Science. There is no design yet. It will be issued sometime in 2008. That will be a rare one. I only know of two scouters that have earned it in our district.

I thought I heard or read somewhere that there was also to be an award for unit trainer, something along the lines as the Pack Trainer?

Does anyone know where or how to get updates from the National Boy Scout and Venturing Divisions? Does National provide just released information (hot off the press type) on a website? Or is their some professional that can be emailed, let's say, about the possibility of new shirts coming in the near future? I looked on the National website and could not detect anything of this nature. Thanks.