Mr.Maynard

what would i have done?

i would have sat them down and talked to them find out why they feel the way they do.I would have told them you have come to far to give up and why i think they deserve it and told them to get it done.

I am aware of never push never pull dont kick dont poke.

Just seeing kids go so far and then more less stop just kills me.

Im told that I care too much and I should step down from SM and let someone else do it.

Ok Im to give up my Boys to someone that doesnt care I DONT THINK SO.

Thanks for all your comments and help just wanted to see what everyone else thought about the subject

Maynard

no dont get me wrong not nagging not pushing them along just giving them a kick now and then

i dont see anything wrong with that.

you give them a task and they do GREAT they handle what ever you put in front of them.

but to just let them be?

maybe im wrong?

B

sometimes you have too Encourage!! i look at kids that started as a tiger and went all the way to life now just sitting there doing nothing i have to Encouragethem to finish!!!!

Maynard

To push or not to push that is the question?

I know a lot of leaders that believe that if a Scout wants to advance or finish a merit badge the scout will come to them even if they are idle for a long period of time.

I understand that some boys are just in it for the camping but they have to do something and the ones that are so close to Eagle I just cant let them go with out them making eagle.

Some have worked hard to get to Life rank and then get into sports or get loaded down with homework or just fall off the track.

So my question is should you just let them slide thru scouts and turn 18?

Or keep a Scoutmaster sheet that tells him just where each scout is at anytime and start pushing the ones that need to be motivated ?

(Scoutmaster sheet is a spread sheet (huge help) that tells me exactly where each scout is Rank, Dates, Merit badges and so on updated every month by troop advancement)

Dont get me wrong it was a $1.50 check nothing big at all.

And it went to national and not any further never even a decline.

I guess Im just a little distraught about leaders getting awards for doing nothing!!!!!!!!

You see leaders on every camp out and work all day with the kids running a great program. Put them in and they get nothing. Then you have leaders that do nothing and there getting knots and awards left and right. Just not right for the leaders that you see giving there all and receiving nothing.

We have put leaders in for awards and go to the awards dinner and some of them dont get it for some reason but then you see the few that dont deserve it get the real high awards like one is the Silver Beaver well I guess he has a friend thats is a good writer..

all this is is somthing i was thinking about and how wrong i think it is.........

thats just an example

i guess my statment is that leaders shouldnt be put in for awards they didnt earn.and i know 2 leaders that keep putting each other in for awards and ones hey dont really earn but still fill out the paperwork for it.

Just wanted to add

I do have a problem with leaders being put in for awards they didnt earn !!!!!!!!!

1 example is the St. George Award for religion and the leader has nothing to do with church or mentoring in religion.

you look at some of the leaders and see just what awards they have and just smile knowing they didnt do a damn thing to earn them!!!!!

Hello All

Have any of you ever put a leader in for an award that had to go to national where they cashed your check but never sent the award.

And when you call about it you tell them you put someone in for the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit they tell you that has been replaced by Unit Leader's Award of Merit

I asked them ok so where does that leave me? I was told to resubmit under Unit Leader's Award of Merit and try again.

But what about the check that was cashed it may not have been much but its the point that they have awards and you have to pay for them they cash your check and tell you to resubmit. You resubmit and need to send a new check go figure

Hi All

Ok here is how its going.

The father called national and talked to everyone that would listen and called the council and talked to everyone there also.

And he tried to take the council advancement Chair on by calling national but I dont know what came of that or how it ended up.

I got in touch with the scout and set up his SMC & BOR told him the date and time he told me he had to check his calendar and will let me know.

I told him I would hold on while he checked that took about 5 minutes he came back and said that that date was not going to work for his so I said well you can come the last Monday of the month and do your SMC and the first Monday of the month for his BOR.

His statement to me was theres too much trouble in the troop and that he just doesnt want to do palms anymore

I asked if I could have it in writing he told me yes also did you tell your father and he said yes.

He stated that all he wants to do is go camping I told him thats fine with me.

So thats how it all ended!

Thanks everyone for your help.

well the council advancement chair is the one telling me to redo so i dont thing council will or could have anything to say.

The dad is a guy that more then likley will call nationakl as soon as he finds out

then they will have to call the CAC and sort it out

Hi All

well i am going to set up a SMC and BOR.

make sure i have the place, time, and committee set up.

then call the Scout and let him know that he is to be there for this if he cant make it i will set it up for the next month.

i will not go out of my was to make special meetings just for him or his dad anymore.

on the 3/18/08 i wonder if he will show up?

what do you guys think (Y or N0)

emb021

the CAC isnt going to let the last BOR fly

if the Scout wants his smc & bor he has to go with the troop and the cac will be therefor this one.

trying not to punish the scout by holding the palm that he has the merit badges for.

the father is the one to blame here for finding the back doors not the scout im sure if your dad told you this is what your going to do you would do it

just a little update

I have the council advancement chair calling me to set up a BOR & SMC for the Eagle +35 palm

The CAC isnt real happy with the dad or the scout and is going to sit in on the BOR

Nldscout

The answer to that is a dad that can find loop holes in anything and friends in council

THATS ALL THERE IS

Well here is the final answer from council

The scout was awarded the Palms for being active per National and for the work he has done in the past.

not for the 3 months in-between palms

A Scout will be considered active in his unit if he is

Registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

Not dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

Engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (informed of unit activities through Scoutmaster conference or personal contact, Etc.)

This is quoted in the Advancement Committee Policies and procedures

A Scoutmaster conference can be done at any time, not just for rank advancement. It can be done when a scout is not advancing or when there is a problem with the scout.

what you conceder as a scout being active if you are telling them that they have to make so many meetings you are adding requirements (This is per Council & National)

so i just told the District Advancement Chairman to just let me know how many more palms the Scout can earn and i will just sign the forms and give them back to him right away

as i told him i have 37 boys in my troop and all are advancing and Im a bad no good Scoutmaster

For 1 scouts father going off the deep end

SO BE IT i have 36 more to worry about...

Thanks to all of you for listing to my rant

Mr.Maynard

I think i did open it.

LOL i love to fish just not this kind (I hate politics)

well 1 more day till i find out what happins

well now they have the council advancement involved and they are having a meeting tonight and i had to write out a statement for the committee (LOL 3 pages long)

but i will not know anything till wedsday

Thanks all

To all who have helped.

Here is whats going on now I have district calling me and talking for 45 min asking me what we can do to let this go through and not have any problems.

I told them to have the scout show up to meetings and stay active the way it states in the Bylaws as he has done for so many years in the past till his father found the back door to that one.

Last night at our meeting I had a different leader that is friends with the Father come in and tell me to sign a SMC after the fact that the BOR is already done. I told him no I wasnt doing that and he informed me that if I dont I would be opening a bigger can of worms than I could handle!!!

Our DE was at this meeting and just tried to talk me into signing it so I wouldnt bring any trouble to the troop.

I would like to know what trouble could that be?

in my mind Im right.

Eagle palm BOR are to be done with the troop and not in district unless someone from district calls the SM and gets permission to have the District BOR.

As far as the scout goes I only hold him countable for one thing that is knowing he is going around the rules and not doing it the right way.

The rest is on the father.

As far as Im concerned if the scout gets held up for any palms it the dads fault for trying to go around the rules and finding every back door where ever he can.

The scout with has earned the Silver William T. Hornaday Award for the Conservation work he has done.(Did a GREAT JOB )

But now Im told we should sign his Palm Application from now till he turns 18 for doing so with out showing up at meetings or outings and so on and to do so on the work he has done in the past.

As I told the DE the work he has done in the past isnt part of the requirement for eagle Palms

They are :

Copied and edited from acco40

After becoming an Eagle Scout, you may earn Palms by completing the following requirements:

1. Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 3 months after becoming an Eagle Scout or after the award of your last Palm.

(But per National he doesnt have to be there. so how can he show leadership?)

2. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.

(knowingly Going around the Bylaws of the troop)

3. Make a satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability.

(no leadership can be shown if the Scout has not been to a meeting in 6 months )

4. Earn five additional merit badges beyond those required for Eagle or last Palm.*.

5. Take Part in a Scoutmaster conference.

(The Father Found the back door to this one also)

6. Complete your board of review.

(has done this with District with out permission of the SM)

The end of my rant is that all I want is for my Scouts to have fun learn things that they might not learn without the scouting program and to advance in rank to the rank of Eagle!

THAT IS MY GOAL!

Thank you for your help

Thank you all for all your help i will let you know how everything turns out .....

Nike

yes but the scout isnt living the Scout law like

Trustworthy, Loyal,Obedient

and i mean Obedient by following the rules

A Scout is:

Trustworthy, Loyal,Helpful,Friendly,Courteous, Kind,Obedient,

Cheerful,Thrifty,Brave,Clean and Reverent.

the problem is the a leader is finding the back doors to getting around the SMC and doing the BOR with the district and not the troop.

i have the same question is there somwhere that shows the age of a ASM for doing the a SMC i think i have read it somewhere i just cant think of where.

i did see the Scout and the father on saturday the scout couldint even look me in the face or say hello after i did but thats ok but the father did tell me that he cant make it to any meeting he dosent have a ride so he wont be there.

well i cant help it that he lives 40 min or more away.

i guess what im fed up with is that the district is letting this go on even though i have voiced my views about this BOR and SMC and nothing is being done to stop it.

the council is to be there for support to the troop not to help show scouts how to cheat and find loop holes like a ASM that hasint been to a meeting in 18 months or more and not having anything to do with the troop (SMC-BOR or meetings)

Yes im ticked off

so i am looking for what i can do as a SM!!!!!

well i took over as SM in Aug.

and like i have said i havent seen this so called leader since he turned 18 hes in a different state going to school and i dont allow the 2 ASM that i have in my troop to do MSC i do them.

i have a roge leader that is useing the charter to go around the troop to get his inactive son his eagle palms with out useing the troop for anything but the charter.

so he finds this ASM that comes home once a month and is now asking him to sign off on the SMC.

i just need to know if this is somthing they can do?

they do all BOR with district and now doing SMC with someone that hasint been around for 18 months.

i dont think what i say matters i think that if hes on the charter as a ASM he can get away with it.

thats why i just need to see if i can find somthing in writing that says if there is an age or not.

i think if the kid lives to far to come to meetings and cant make it to the meetings dosint need us for SMC or BOR then why recharter this scout.................

ok let me ask you this.

you know how a Scout turns 18 and want to be a leader so the fill out the applacation then they go away to school and say that they will come in for meetings on break you dont see them for about 18 months if you ever see them again but there parent is still active in the troop and ask to keep them on the charter so not to make waves you keep them on.

Can inactive ASM do a SMC?

My Question is What age does a ASM have to be to give a SMC?

Where can i find it in writing?