Midnight

I for one, have had experiance with the who uniforming bit. Uniforming may equalize the girls, but lets's say you can't afford the unform to begin with? Or you already have a uniform, but it's 6 six years (and 5 tacky styles) behind the rest and can't afford to buy or make a new one?

I am also a complainer on the subject - having to wear uniforms to headquarters and to DC. Both were unpleasant experiances in the uniforms simply becuase we felt out of place and uncomfortable becaue everyone in the troop felt as if they were unattractive. Yes, we understand the point of uniforms is not centered around being attractive, but these were teenage girls. These uniforms do NOTHING to boost self esteem.

The BG vs GS uniforms isn't really comparable, I agree. However, it would be nice to keep a uniform that didn't change every few years, something that was both durable, comfortable, and reasonable looking (all in my wildest dreams, I'm sure). I've had experiances where I was requested by camp staff or by council to be in "full uniform" and then had to hike, in heels and hose, up and down rocky trails to teach at a few summer camps.

(This message has been edited by Midnight)

I have in fact approached the old camp director on the subject. She wont comment one way or another. I mentioned everything that I mentioned on my first post, and she did not want to pin this issue or make it public for the councils sake. I can understand these views to a point, but things still must be done about this situation.

I have been in contact with some of last years counselors who will be returning this summer. They know Im not trying to cause problems (Im not the most popular counselor at camp, but I do speak up when theres something wrong). Everyone is aware of the situation, but most dont want to mess the summer up and bringing a charge like this to light would probably bring about the closing of the camp for the summer. Ive seen it happen in other councils, and we would rather not make a federal case out of it (literally). What we had wanted done was to have the two counselors in question removed from heir posts and replaced without too much public hype. The problem with this is that the council wont act without current evidence.

And the issue with getting evidence is that all of the campers that I have witnessed think the world and more of these two counselors. Everything, no matter how questionable or dangerous has been viewed as cool and thereby, acceptable to the girls. And would have to agree with the girls, because I too thought the same until I grew up a little and saw what was going on. A few of the counselors suggested bringing a few of the old campers to the office and having the girls tell the council head what happened during their time at camp. Just questioning. But again, that would infringe on the rules of camper and counselor contact.

I have done everything short of marching into the main council office. And in my current status here at college, I lack a car and lack the means to get to the office otherwise I would have been there a month ago.

The way GSUSA runs things, If I were to go higher up, they would refer me or forward my material to the proper place where my worry/concern/complaint would be "heard" - the main council head (the one who won't respond to me as it is). So it would be just another circle.

One thing I had considered, and it would cost me my job this summer, is to bring it up to the camper's parents. This would violate the counselor contacting the camper outside of camp for any reason outside of correspondence rule. I don't want to do this. I need this job not to mention I love this job - but I don't want any of these girls to be either put into danger or have to learn material that they were never intended to learn though Girl Scouts.

Any more advice? Please?

my leaders? If it's troop leaders you're referring to... Telling the leaders in this council will unfortunately help nothing. I don't know about other councils, but in the one's that I've worked for, Leaders have no say or representation where resident camp is concerned. Leaders take care of troops, Counselors take care of camps. (unlike BSA, the very existance of troops has little to no bearing on what goes on at Girl Scout camps - though I almost wish it did).(This message has been edited by Midnight)

Okay, I need some one elses opinion on this, because Im just not exactly sure of either policies or rules regarding this and I also would like to hear some wisdom from the elder people here. Im still young and still often slow. Ive been staffing camps since I was a Junior scout, and Im still not sure how I would fix this with knowing how to handle things like this.

This summer Ill be returning as a camp counselor to a local Girl Scout resident camp. I have found out that the old director has left and in her stead, two of the most irresponsible college students that Ive known for years are being put in charge. Dont get me wrong, I couldnt do the job myself, and I really cant judge in terms of the job itself. Rather, Im judging by their performance as camp counselors and unit counselors.

A little history on this issue These two ladies have wanted the position for years, and the old camp director has stuck around for over ten years longer than any other director weve ever had just so that they wouldnt get the job. Theyve broken very obvious rules in Girl Scouting and some unspoken rules as well.

I know I am simply a counselor, but Ive also seen the stunts these girls have pulled. They were my counselors as well when I was a kid, and I remember telling my parents about some of the happenings at camp and them not even believing me since the very idea of these things happening at camp were outrageous. These things included teaching the girls how to take a shot of liquor with a chaser (no liquor involved at camp, but still teaching it), how to approach guys properly to get some, how to light a fire with firecrackers and gasoline, and varies methods of strip dancing. Some of this may sound trivial, and I even remember as a camper, thinking this stuff was cool until I hit high school and realized how bad some of this stuff was.

On top of everything else, these two women have also crossed a few lines that are usually not brought up by GSUSA, and is considered to be a proud point of Girl Scouting since we have not made national news with discrepancies and issues surrounding it lesbians.

I have personally never had an issue with homosexuality. I myself have had and have known a few lesbian counselors. IT was never an issue though, because they never made it an issue. However, this is where things get stick with the soon-to-be camp directorsthey are lesbians, they are open about it, and the last few summers they have made a point to encourage girls to experiment if they were curious and that if the girls wanted help that maybe they could get help from the counselors. They didnt insist that the girls did this at camp, but the fact remains, they encouraged a sexual relationship and standpoint. Im trying to get info on sexuality in Girl Scouts and have come up empty handed so far.

Anyway, I fear for this summer at camp and dont know who else to go to since the council head is too busy to speak to me or bother replaying to my phone calls or e-mails.

I could use advice. Opinions are good, too.

Thanks

Address the topic of trainer training or go to the council personally?

You are hitting the mark on this one - the trainers do need to be better trained. I guess I never followed the training and certification tree all the way to the root. As far as I know, the Lead Trainers for trainers who also organize the standards report to GSUSA, or at least that's what it says in my hand book. You would think that they would have some standards to follow set by the government or other outdoor organizations, wouldn't you? I'll have to do some asking around to see who the big fish ultimately report to.

I'll talk more later - I need to go to class

I agree for the most part with the above statements (and thank you so much for them ). My argument for training would be that nearly all the leaders who receive multiple trainings, outside the required overnight training, do remarkably well as troop leaders.

"It was my understanding that Girl Scout leaders must take overnight camping training before taking girls camping. They also must have a First Aid trained person with them at such outings." - sctmom is correct.

I ought to mention is that I have been to many of these overnight trainings as a junior trainer. Every single time, the trainers (three different ones) would hand out forms stating that the women had been certified. The papers were pre-signed and dated before there was any material taught to the trainees. For the rest of the night the women usually sit chatting around a campfire and leave the camp before the night is even over. These are in no way proper trainings, they are a joke and an embarrassment to GSUSA.

And in case anyone is wondering, I did take this to the council. Problem is, you arent usually taken seriously unless you are a parent (ie. Have a kid in a troop). So I was never even heard by people who could do anything.

What needs to happen is actual trainings. Real, prove-that-you-know-it, trainings. More that one trainer should be present, each to be a check for the other.

I am writing a proposal to a few Girl Scout councils concerning a problem about how Girl Scout Leaders seem to lack basic camping skill training. And before anyone gets mad, let me say this, I am NOT saying that all Girl Scout leaders are incompetent, I'm just trying to get a handle on the opinions and the thoughts concerning this situation.

My history of scouts is based on the fact that I am a Girl Scout resident camp counselor (hence the camp name, Midnight). I am also trained in Traversing, Climbing, first-aid, CPR, and all the usual stuff that GS Leaders are required to be trained in. I have earned my Silver and Gold awards and have been in the organization for over fifteen years.

From the first summer that I was old enough to staff at a GS camp, I began noticing how Girl Scout leaders lacked some of the most imperative camping skills. One leader taught her girls that the "correct way" to build a fire was by spraying a can of bug spray over a lighter for a torch effect. Another leader saw a snake, freaked out, and ran halfway across the camp leaving her girls behind screaming and crying. One woman didn't understand how to set up a tent, got upset over it, and in the process, upset all the girls to the point to where they all left and went home. Another leader, one who I've known from a very young age, allowed her girls to go swimming in a lake without any knowledge of whether the girls knew how to swim or not. The leader had no swimming experience herself, and one girl who started struggling might have drowned had the camp ranger not intervened.

These are just a few examples of things that I have been a witness to. Others have told me their own horror stories of incidents that happened in their own troops. I actually took this information to one of my councils but was dismissed because I didn't have any proof in writing outside my own notes.

I'm looking for opinions on this. But even more importantly, I'm looking for reasons why you believe that Girl Scout leaders require more training.

Thanks

I am writing a proposal to a few Girl Scout councils concerning a problem about how Girl Scout Leaders seem to lack basic camping skill training. And before anyone gets mad, let me say this, I am NOT saying that all Girl Scout leaders are incompetent, I'm just trying to get a handle on the opinions and the thoughts concerning this situation.

My history of scouts is based on the fact that I am a Girl Scout resident camp counselor (hence the camp name, Midnight). I am also trained in Traversing, Climbing, first-aid, CPR, and all the usual stuff that GS Leaders are required to be trained in. I have earned my Silver and Gold awards and have been in the organization for over fifteen years.

From the first summer that I was old enough to staff at a GS camp, I began noticing how Girl Scout leaders lacked some of the most imperative camping skills. One leader taught her girls that the "correct way" to build a fire was by spraying a can of bug spray over a lighter for a torch effect. Another leader saw a snake, freaked out, and ran halfway across the camp leaving her girls behind screaming and crying. One woman didn't understand how to set up a tent, got upset over it, and in the process, upset all the girls to the point to where they all left and went home. Another leader, one who I've known from a very young age, allowed her girls to go swimming in a lake without any knowledge of whether the girls knew how to swim or not. The leader had no swimming experience herself, and one girl who started struggling might have drowned had the camp ranger not intervened.

These are just a few examples of things that I have been a witness to. Others have told me their own horror stories of incidents that happened in their own troops. I actually took this information to one of my councils but was dismissed because I didn't have any proof in writing outside my own notes.

I'm looking for opinions on this. But even more importantly, I'm looking for reasons why you believe that Girl Scout leaders require more training.

Thanks