mgkaiser

Brent, I know you mean well, but you are gusssing on numbers. I, on the other hand, have the 2005 budget in front of me. I will not publish numbers here as that serves no purpose, but I am discussing what I see with my district committe chair.

In 2005 a significant of money, but not the full $3 million, was collected into one of the trust accounts that is named in such a way to indicate that it is for Camps. I do not know the rules associated with the use of the funds from that account. I do not know if a decision was made to park the funds there for a while to earn some interest before using them. I don't know a LOT because the folks in Ft. Myers don't talk to us, but I'm working that in a constructive manner.

We're not building a single building. We're improving a camp. So we don't need the full amount for all the improvements in one year. Improve SOME of the camp sites. Prioritize. We have enough to go a long way. Also get creative. If people won't donate money, donate time. I've bounced some ideas off the District Chair which I have not gotten feedback on yet. When I do, I'll share the ideas.

If the county, state, or SWFMD were interested in CFE as a park before, why would they not still have the same interest now? Discussions were held with Foundation for Dreams, another youth group, to purchase the camp and use it as a youth camp. The rezoning does not make the land valueless. It insures that it stays a youth camp, park, preserve, or some other sort of green space.

We could still sell it to the County, State, Foundation for Dreams. We don't need the money now (I know, my COR gave me a copy of the budget). We do need a camp now.

Quit fighting the suit, quit fighting the rezoning and put it all aside and run the program. If we get cash poor later, we can bring it up again. I think that we all accept that this will be in court for 2 years or so.

But I have a better idea.

The community is fired up about the camp. I, myself, and members of my Pack have redoubled our efforts toward the program. We getting busy at the school to make sure next year's recruitment is high. We're getting out and volunteering to take care of Camp Flying Eagle. We're getting other people excited to.

So.... Extend the olive branch. Drop the suit for now. Leave the rezoning be for now. BUT... Make sure the community knows that this comes at a price. The price is community support. They're all listening now, so tell them. I'm telling anybody I talk to that the key to keeping the camp is using the camp, volunteering to maintain the camp, and supporting the camp. It would be easier to do if we could stand together and assure them there would BE a camp.....

What does your SE think of Sunny Florida? It's really nice here. If not him personally, does anybody he has trained wanna come? Please... We really don't think ALL SE's are evil. Heck, I wouldn't dare to speak for anybody except my own. But mine nor any of the other top brass does any of that around here. I've got a great DE for now, but the SE kept firing and not replacing DE's for YEARS. I hope we can keep this one.

We do fall short on FOS funds, but we'd need to keep a DE for more than a year to get the pipeline going. Hopefully we get to keep this DE and things will work out.

I had a boss that kept firing the sales staff after about 8 months in a business that took 8 months to get the sales pipeline going. We never sold much.... Kinda the same with the DE's. Our current DE balances the having a quality program with paying for the program, but the SE thinks he shoud ONLY worry about FOS and not quality. The quality of the program and the funding are wrapped up together. Can't do one without the other. SE does not understand.

Sounds like yours earns his keep. If mine did what yours does I'd love him too.

This isn't about France and we're all going off into left field by going here. ALL of us, the folks I agree with and the folks I disagree with.

This is about making Scouting all it can be. If BrentAllen's council really runs as well as he asserts it does, then that is how I want my council to run too.

Up to the district level, we run as a cohesive unit. All of us, unit leaders, district volunteers, DE. All of us. We also have a pretty strong, albeit informal, cohesion among districts. But it breaks down at the council level. The SE and the Executive Comittee create the "us and them" mentality. I've never seen any of them in Manatee County. I attend all of the Roundtables, District Board meetings, and District events. Never seen one of them. If I saw them more, or even HEARD from them more I might trust them more.

Slip of the tonuge (or finger as the case may be). By "council" I really mean "guys in Ft. Myers"..... I do not have a problem with the professional Scouters. Love my DE. I run my Pack the best I can. I help in Council and District events. I am becoming more active in my disctrict. I have only been doing this 3 years, but I am taking on more and more. I fully get that we ALL are the council. But a few or the top officials in Ft. Myers do not agree. THEY are the ones who foster the feeling that it's an us and them thing. I'm doing my part. I do more each year and I don't intend to slow down.

Hey PackSaddle, thanks for the greeting.

Brent, Perhaps I've been a bit harsh. I really do not know you and I jumped the gun on judging. You don't know the area down here fully and therefore don't fully understand the issue.

The Manatee District is really 2 distinct areas with sharply different demographics. Previously the entire district was rather low income, participated poorly, and fell short on FOS donations. We still do not fully pull our weight, but we are improving. East Manatee, the area where my Pack is and the area where Camp Flying Eagle is, is a fast growing, wealthy region. The problem is that many of the FOS donations are being made on the contingent that CFE not be sold. This is not a result of the lawsuit, but a result of the rumors (and actuall offers that have been entertained) that CFE will be sold. This problem has existed since 1995 or earlier. (1995 is the first time I can find it documented.) I am taking an active roll in recruitment, not just for my Pack, but for all East Manatee Packs. I'm currently focusing on Cub Scouts, but I hope to get involved on the Troop level or get somebody who better understands that level to help me. The point is that enrollment is already up and is likely to be WAY up next year. FOS donations are coming. And there is no financial reason to sell the camp. If we could just get an agreement from Council that NO offer would be entertained for at least 5 years, we could have the best darn region in the council.

But I NEED Camp Flying Eagle to do it.

I am moving forward to meet these enrollment goals. Many of my plans to meet these goals will also open up contacts that should yield FOS donations in the future. But this will all take time. A year to show some progress. More to reach it's full potential.

I currently hold no official position, but I have made my ideas known to district and offered my time to make them a reality.

This is what I mean by running things from the bottom up.

Anybody who believed the organization should be run from the top down is bad.

Anybody who believes the organization should be run from the bottom up is good.

I DO understand how a council is run. I am in close touch with my DE (whom I think is a "good guy") and my Executive Council member (also "good guy"). I am in the process of getting trained and volunteering for sub-comittee position on the District Board. I am a true believer in the values of Scouting. I have not desire to kill BSA, only to fix it.

Is "BrentAllen" the "company man" who's job it is to keep down the "uppity help"?

How does Scouting turn good Scouters into 6 figure goons? One must question if they were ever good Scouters in the first place. The SE is judged SOLELY by how much money he brings in and not on the quality of the program. That is one big reason they do the things they do.

BSA does not need more money, they need enough money to run the program. Camps should only be sold if: 1) The council is cash poor, failing, and needs to choose between doing that and shutting down entirely. 2) A better quality camp is available in reasonable proximity and can be bought with the money. A camp should never be sold without a plan of what will be done with the proceeds.

Neither of the situations I described is happening in SWFL. The current budget adequately supports Camp Flying Eagle AND Camp Miles. There are adequate funds to operate and improve BOTH camps. Read the 990 form for yourself. And finally, there is no plan of what would be done with the proceeds should the camp be sold.

Despite what Mr. Hampton says, he did actively solicit offers for the camp and is continuing to do so despite the pending lawsuit.

Mr. Hampton did not consult the Executive Comittee before dismissing Colonel "Red Dog" Maynard. Rather he attempted to do it sumarily and ulilaterally. It was only after the fact that the Executive Council pointed out to Mr. Hampton that a vote was required. Said vote is to be held Wednesday.

The Manatee County seat on the executive committee is NOT vacant. It is filled by an individual whom I correspond with or speak to on a near daily basis. This individual is very dedicated and very involved with the running of the Manatee Council. But this is only one vote. Generally the "Two Rivers" district which represents Sarasota, Desoto, and Charlotte counties agrees with Manatee County, however they also only hold one seat and therefore one vote. A total of 9 members on the Executive Comittee represent Lee County, the county where the Council seat is. The entire Executive Committe is listed on www.savecfe.org . So, as you see, despite the seat being filled by a dedicated individual, the vote is near meaningless given the rest of the committee.

There are 5 members from Manatee county on the Executive Board. Again, the entire board is listed on www.savecfe.org But again, the board is weighted heavily from Lee County. Since the board selects members of the board, it is very hard to tip these numbers. It's not due to a shortage of volunteers.

"Everything has it's price". Not so. Some things are irreplacable. Before I could support a sale of Camp Flying Eagle at any price I would need to know what the program would gain from it. Even with $20 million or $30 million, there is no piece of property to be had that matches the camp at any price anywhere in the Council. There's lots of tomato fields, orange groves and cow pastures. Any remaining riverfront, heavily forrested property is either a state park, or gone. The Southern end of the council borders on the Everglades. There's a couple of nice State parks we could have the use of part time, but we already have the use of them part time. And there's Camp Miles in the south, which we already have. Southwest Florida is a council that is solidly in the black. We run a pretty good cash surplus every year for the past 10 years (As little as $30k, as much as $100k), but it means we're running the program and paying the bills and have a bit left over in the end. We have $11.5 million in assets, some $300k in ready cash, the rest in endowments, so although we cannot touch the principal on some of that, we earn $100k or more per year on investment income. In short, there is no financial need to sell the camp.

Without a financial need to sell the camp or any proposed purchase that would benefit the program, what good is the cash? It looks good on the SE's performance review, but what benefit does it do the program?

Sunnyland vs SWFL is old news. What matters is the need of the boys in the program TODAY. If you advocate plowing under 180 acres of pristine forrest because of a 20 year old grudge, you don't belong in Scouting...

Hello from Bradenton, Florida.

Join us at http://www.savecfe.org for the full story.

Camp Flying Eagle is a Boy Scout camp located in Eastern Manatee County in Florida. This camp has a long history. In 1929, the Manatee County Boys Development Association (a scout-booster group) raised $2,000 to buy this land. This land was leased to the Sunny Land Council until 1991. In 1991, the land was deeded to the Council. This transfer was done with the understanding and stipulation that this land be kept for scouting purposes and would not be sold. In 1995, the Sunny Land Council merged in to the Southwest Florida Council. In the course of the past year, the Council has begun to entertain offers for the sale of this irreplaceable land. This is in direct contradiction to the good faith extended when this land was deeded to the Council and is an insult to the Scouts of this area. Many former Scouts and current Scouts in the area are against the potential sale of this land. This opposition has even led to the Council taking the unprecedented action of revoking the BSA membership of the volunteer Campmaster, Colonel B.J. "Red Dog" Maynard.

Visit http://www.savecfe.org to get all (well, as many as we've found so far) of the news articles relating to the sale of Camp Flying Eagle and the ouster of Red Dog in one place