mbscoutmom

My understanding is that the CO is only required to provide a place for the pack meeting, not for den meetings. It's not even technically my job as CC to find a place for den meetings. I'm just tired of dealing with facilities problems both as CC and as a den leader.

One question about meeting in a school: are they likely to let us use a classroom, or some other room such as the cafeteria? It's much better to have each den meet in its own room rather than having several dens try to share a larger space. (The noise can be deafening!)

I've been thinking about asking a nearby public school if we could meet there, since their pack could not get going this year and several of their students joined our pack.

Of course, each den will decide where and when they want to meet--I just want to give them all the possible options.

Scoutnut, we don't have to all meet at the same place and time, but that's what everyone prefers. It also makes it easier for turning in money, forms, passing out info, etc. Especially since we get very poor attendance of leaders at committee meetings. If I didn't touch base with some leaders at den meetings, I would only see them at pack meetings.

I've suggested that den leaders talk to the parents in their den and decide whether or not they want to switch to a different night. It might be difficult to switch in the middle of the school year, though, since the boys may have already signed up for sports or other activities.

Meeting on different nights doesn't solve the real problem, though, which is that we can't depend on those rooms being useable even though we're on the schedule to use them.

Michelle, our COR does not actively help us; however, the troop's COR looks out for the pack as well as the troop. That's why it's so frustrating: she met with church leaders and the new ministry leaders and had everything worked out. Still, no one even informed us that the rooms were unusable until I happened to inquire.

I hadn't meant to post that yet. (BTW, how do you edit a post?)

I was just coming to my question: where else could we look for a meeting place for our dens? The school rooms are used for CCD classes almost every night. We're going to look into using them on Thursdays, the one night CCD doesn't meet, but some of the parents really like meeting on Tuesdays. Do you think we might be allowed to meet in a public school even though we're chartered by a church? Are there other possible places to meet besides people's homes? (We've never had much luck getting people to volunteer their homes for meetings.)

Facilities for our den meetings have been a constant problem ever since I became CC. We previously had been meeting in a building that is also used for CCD. Last year they converted some of the rooms into offices and then told us we'd have to meet somewhere else this year. They gave us the choice of meeting in the Parish Hall or in another building that had previously been used as office space. Since it would be very hard to have 5 den meetings going on in one large open space, we worked out a deal with the troop--they use the Parish Hall for troop meetings and we use the other building for den meetings; we switch with them once a month for pack meetings.

It sounded like a good plan until we found out the condition of the building. The previous occupants had left a huge mess behind. Then it was used to store garage sale merchandise all Summer. We finally got in to clean it up in late August, barely 2 weeks before School Night. Once the mess was cleaned up, there was still the problem that the roof leaks whenever it rains and the Church can't afford to fix it.

There have been numerous other problems with this building. At one point they told us we'd have to clean it ourselves (vacuum, clean bathrooms, etc.) They also filled one large room with stored items, so that we've had to squeeze into the smaller rooms. Now they've given two rooms, including one large one that two dens had been sharing, to another organization. We'll have to squeeze 5 dens into the 4 smaller rooms.

The last straw came yesterday. I happened to call the Church office about another matter, and found out that the new ministry had not finished moving into the rooms they're supposed to use, and had left things in the other rooms as well. The rooms we were supposed to use last night were unusable. If I hadn't happened to call, we would have shown up last night and had no rooms to meet in! After I complained, the stuff was moved and we were able to meet as planned. However, I'm fed up with this!

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Torveaux, we don't have Show and Sell here. I'm sure that must help sell more popcorn. I did ask the committee about buying extra popcorn to sell after Mass, but was told that they'd tried it in the past and hardly sold any. I guess popcorn just can't be our major source of funds. We do have another option--the troop runs a booth at Texas Rangers games in the summer and invites Cub Scout parents to help. The pack gets $40-50 for each person who works the booth. Unfortunately, last summer only 1 Cub Scout parent volunteered. I even warned them that if they didn't, we'd have to start charging dues, and they still weren't motivated!

"We had around 30 boys and they sold enough popcorn that we took in about $4500 in profit."

Our 30 boys didn't do that well. We'll have about $1000 profit if we sell the leftover popcorn. We even offered better prizes and money in the scout's account this year. I don't know how else to motivate them. It wasn't that hard for my sons to sell $400 worth. We spent a Sunday afternoon asking people in the neighborhood, called the relatives, and my husband sold some more at work.

"Sorry, mbscoutmom, but either the money is going out elsewhere or you are not taking anything in through a fundraiser. "

We're getting some from fundraisers but not enough. That's why we had to start charging dues. I'm trying to find ways to lower the dues by cutting back on expenses. None of the responses to my question have mentioned buying patches for adult leaders, and that's one place I think we can cut back. We also just had a very successful family campout that cost about half what it did last year.

How much does your pack spend on awards and gifts? What kind of limits do you have on them? Ours has been spending an average of $100 per month for around 30 boys. In past years, we've handed out beltloops, pins, and patches for everything under the sun, for the scouts and the leaders, too. At graduation we hand out neckerchiefs, and special gifts for scouts and leaders who are crossing over. I think this is why our dues are so much higher than what many of you report.

We're trying out dues this year for the first time, because our families weren't participating in fund-raisers well enough, and our bank balance was too low to cover operating expenses.

Our committee just recently approved a dues policy. We're charging $10 per month Sept.-March, with Dec. dues going to the den and the rest to the pack. Boys won't have to pay dues in April if they bring a cake for the cake bake, or in May if they sell Scout Show tickets. They get $10 in their account for every $100 of popcorn they sell. In addition, the troop allows cub scout parents to work the booth they have at a Major League baseball stadium in the summer, and they get $15 per day to go in their account. So it's very possible for a scout and his parents to earn all his dues if they try.

The total of dues for the year is $90. That covers awards, food for two family campouts, leader training, rechartering, including Boy's Life, and den expenses. Fund-raisers cover the rest of the program expenses. I had hoped we would have extra to give everyone a t-shirt, or provide a catered B&G, but even with a lot of new enthusiastic scouts this year, we didn't get full participation in the popcorn fund-raiser.

I talked to her this morning, and she has agreed to be Membership chair instead of assistant CC. She just wants to help in any way she can, and I think she'll do very well in this position. Thanks for your advice!

Eamonn, I don't see anything about a nominating committee in the Cub Scout Leader Book. It sounds like a nice idea, though.

You're right that the CC job description does not include finding pack leaders. The only place I see that in a job description is for the COR--"Help select the right leadership for the unit." But, as I mentioned before, I haven't even met the COR, much less received any help with selecting leaders.

We do have leaders signed up for all the positions listed in the Cub Scout Leader Book. However, three of them are assigned to one person. At the last leader meeting, I asked for volunteers to help with those jobs; instead I got a volunteer to help with mine. So should I just let her follow me around for the next year and a half until my son crosses over and she becomes CC?

I hear repeatedly that the Unit Commissioner and the COR are supposed to help recruit leaders, but what can they do that we're not already doing? We make announcements at pack meetings, write about it in the newsletter, send e-mails, talk to people personally, etc. Our Unit Commissioner is very helpful with lots of things, especially dealing with the district and council, but I haven't even met our COR.

A Tiger mom has volunteered to be assistant CC, and I'm trying to figure out what jobs to give her to do. At the same time, I want to get our pack leadership organized better. Presently, I'm doing some things that other pack leaders should be doing, so I don't want to perpetuate that situation by giving my assistant jobs that actually should be done by someone else. Do you think these jobs would be appropriate for an assistant CC?

Signing up new scouts when they show up at a den or pack meeting, getting the cubmaster's signature, and turning in the application and money to the council.

Updating the pack roster.

Maintaining the pack e-mail list and writing e-mail reminders.

Can you think of anything else that I could ask her to do?

I was trying to start a separate den for homeschooled Tigers in my pack this year, but it didn't work out--they chose a different pack because of the meeting time. What I told the parents who were thinking about joining this homeschooler's den is that they would have their own separate den meetings and activities, but would join the rest of the pack for pack meetings and events. I think this one of the areas where your pack needs to improve. ALL the leaders need to get together and plan activities for the whole pack. They should not be having separate pack meetings and activities that include more than one den. The way they're doing it is almost like two separate packs. This also leads to jealousy between the two groups. It doesn't need to be that way. The dens should be separate, but the pack as a whole should be working together for the same goals.

I would count it. They didn't have to decorate the bird feeders, so I would consider making it and decorating it two different things.

When I plan den meetings, I try to help the boys earn as many achievements and awards as they can. Last night, for instance, we made trail mix, took a short hike, using the buddy system, to a park where we read information about the history of our city, and put our trash in the trash can. This one den meeting counted towards 2 achievements, 1 elective, and the Leave No Trace Award.

Take over as CC for one small pack. Make sure the CO changes the meeting place on you several times, and leaves you with numerous problems to deal with re facilities. Have yourself promoted from ADL to DL when you miss a committee meeting. Add 2 new good-sized dens with numerous leaders, all willing and eager, but needing guidance. Add new boys to every den, including yours. Deplete the bank account until you have to charge everyone dues. Lose the Cubmaster, which doesn't change things much because you were doing his job anyway. Make sure you don't do drop any of the balls you're juggling because that would mean your sons wouldn't have the scouting experience you want for them.

I don't know how much longer I can do this before everything falls apart. I'm going to talk to my ADL tonight about leading the den meetings, because it's impossible to manage a den meeting when people are constantly needing me for something. Still, all this is way too much for one person to do.

The Cub Scout Leader book that I am referring to (c2001) states that "If the Cubmaster is unable to serve, [the Pack Committee Chair will] assume active direction of the pack until a successor is recruited and registered." I paraphrased this as "directs pack in the absence of the Cubmaster." It's not clear on what it means by "active direction", but I would think that means planning and executing the program. Are there guidelines I don't know about that state that the ACM is to do this instead of the CC? It does say that the ACM is to fill in for the CM when necessary, but I thought that meant MCing the pack meeting, not planning the program. This is exactly why I find these job descriptions so confusing!

I've been studying the job descriptions in the Cub Scout Leader Book, and have concluded that a lot of the confusion we see between Cubmaster's and Committee Chair's roles has to do with those descriptions. I read them several times and still wasn't clear on how the CM and CC jobs differ. It's not really helpful to just say the CM=program and CC=administration, because the CM attends the committee meetings and all are involved in both program planning and administration. I think it's more accurate to say that the CM is in charge of the den leaders and boys, and the CC is in charge of the "behind the scenes" running of the pack. Here's my own edited version of their job descriptions:

Committee Chair

 calls and presides at annual program planning and monthly pack leaders meetings

 assigns duties to committee members

 plans charter review, roundup, and re-registration

 approves bills to be paid by treasurer

 sees that adequate facilities are available for meetings

 manages finances

 maintains pack records

 takes care of pack property

 directs pack in absence of Cubmaster

 maintains relationship with troop

 works to make smooth transition of Webelos scouts into troop

Cubmaster

 plans and leads the monthly pack meeting, providing impressive advancement and graduation ceremonies

 works with the pack committee on program ideas, recruiting adult leaders, and establishing a budget plan

 guides and supports den leaders

 maintains a good relationship with parents

 works with Outings Chair to plan and arrange for outdoor activities

 works with Membership Chair on recruiting and maintaining membership

 assigns duties to Assistant Cubmaster

We're in a sticky situation, because we didn't charge dues last year and now we do.

There are many families who have their kids in sports and miss some meetings and events, but they make an effort to keep up with their achievements at home, make it to everything they can, and, most importantly, communicate with leaders about what they're doing. Although I wish they'd try harder to schedule sports on different nights, these families are not the ones I'm concerned about. They'll pay their dues and earn their rank.

The ones I'm concerned about are several that are like the one I described in my first post. In previous years, not charging dues or requiring much of anything allowed scouts to drop in and out whenever they felt like it. Leaders would plan meetings with 8 boys in mind and only 2 or 3 would show up. Scouts wouldn't show up for weeks, then come just in time to receive awards at the Blue & Gold and get signed up again when we re-chartered. Then they'd drop out of sight again. When you get in touch with them after many tries, they give you lots of excuses, but say they still want to be in scouts.

I'm thinking about writing a letter to them, explaining the new dues structure, and that to continue to be a member of the pack they will need to pay dues, participate in fund-raisers, and keep in touch with their leader about advancement and scout events. If I do this, I know very well we're never going to see them again.

Would you do this if you were in my situation? Can you suggest something better?

We haven't charged dues before, either for the pack or den, so that's why I'm asking. The pack used to make enough from popcorn sales and donations, but our balance is too low now to keep that up. We won't have the money from popcorn sales for several months, so the dues we collect now are needed to pay pack expenses.

Michelle, these scouts aren't quitting. They're still registered with our pack, but not going to meetings. If you stopped watching cable but didn't cancel it, you'd still have to pay for it, wouldn't you? I'm just wondering what other packs do in this type of situation. Instead of charging back dues, should we charge them for individual expenses as they come up--expenses the other scouts have been paying for all year?

We're off to a good start this year, with lots of new recruits. However, two of our scouts have not returned to meetings. After numerous attempts to contact their dad, we found out they still want to be in scouts, but aren't coming right now because football practice is on the same night. This man had signed up to be an assistant leader, but didn't even show up for the training that the pack paid for!

When they come back after football season's over, and after popcorn sales is over too, do they owe dues for the months they've missed?

It's hard to know what's best. Our pack has not had very much luck keeping boys who join as Webelos II. But I don't like to tell any boy that he can't join.

My husband is the Webelos II leader. We got a new boy in Web II, and the plan is that he will cross over with the den. We told his dad that in order to get his Webelos and Arrow of Light, he'd need to get some activity pins done at home. Even if he doesn't earn anything, though, he can still cross over to Boy Scouts with the others. I don't see any reason to hold him back.

We expected to do better than last year, when we got 1 Tiger and a couple of Webelos II who didn't last. But we didn't expect what we have gained at School Night and in the two weeks since: 8 Tigers, 2 Wolves, 3 Bears, 3 Webelos I, and 2 Webelos II. Some of these came over from another pack that folded, a few transferred from other packs they weren't happy with, some of them go to our church and read our notice in the bulletin, and the rest go to the parish school. We had 17 active scouts before, lost one who transferred to another pack, and gained 18, so we more than doubled our pack size.

Why did we gain so many more than last year? Mainly, I think it was our presence at the school's open house: we had a display and handed out fliers. We didn't do it last year, but did the year before, and had a large group of new recruits that year as well. I realize that you can't do that in public schools, but it seems to work great for us.

The best news, though, is that we signed up 11 new leaders, more than doubling our total number of leaders, too! I just hope we can keep them all. I'm trying my best to plan a fun program and keep everything organized, but this is a bigger challenge than I had expected when I took over as CC.