Axeman

Mike:

They both work in Sawmill. Middle son is working the dining hall (fourth year out of five). Youngest son is at Turkey Wing (Outpost), his second year there. He is the one with the throwing hawks.

I still think of PA as "Frontier."

mbrown- 5th session @ Bartle? Which camp/campsite?

I have two sons at Bartle for the summer. Middle son (19) is on his fifth staff year, youngest son (18) is on his second staff year.

I count down the days until they come home!

Edge- Explain, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable

A district executive does report to a council Scout Executive, but a council Scout Executive reports to da council Executive Board who hired (and can fire) him. The council Executive Board reports to da council members (COs and at-large), not to the BSA.

Beaver Patrol

meschen:

Sent you a PM.

Bemidji Woolen Mills

http://www.bemidjiwoolenmills.com/details.php?id=voyscout

Sort of figured this was a "dead horse" early on, sir.

This thread has been personally illuminating, however. Out of curiosity I looked up "gadfly" in the dictionary and found a picture of myself. 'zoid-at-20 is not so different from me-at-50. Ouch.

I have some changes to make!

Well...you could recruit from the chartered organization representatives in your District (thank you, Beavah, for remembering).

Radical idea, huh?

CORs are already registered, uniformed, Scouters. Compiling a list of these individuals, complete with contact information such as telephone numbers and email addresses (if available), is exceptionally easy for the District committee.

CORs are not unit scouters, so recruiting CORs does not cannibalize existing unit volunteers. CORs are Council scouters (Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Article VIII, Section 1, Clause 2).

CORs are supposed to be the chartering organization's "voice" on the Council and District committees anyway. Most District committees meet monthly on a set date. This should enable the COR, and the organization the COR represents, to take advantage of available District service. At the monthly District committee meetings, CORs should contribute facts from the units standpoint based upon the CORs knowledge of them. This is supposed to be valuable information to the District committee, and is supposed to keep the Districts program realistic and tuned to the needs of the units (The Chartered Organization Representative, BSA publication #33118D (2004), page 8, paraphrased). So...since they are supposed to be there anyway, put them to work.

One of the five guiding principles of the BSAs 2006-2010 National Strategic Plan is to dramatically increase the number of engaged, accountable volunteers. One of the tactics listed in the Strategic Plan to accomplish this goal is to strengthen relationships with existing chartered organizations. The CORs, by definition, represent these organizations. Engage them. Strengthen the relationship.

CORs represent a large, underutilized, human resource pool. It is disheartening when volunteers at the District and Council levels persist in the shallow end of the pool, refusing to explore the deep end (here there be monsters!), yet claiming that the pool isn't deep enough.

...or am I tilting at windmills again.

Sancho! My helmet! My armor!

Message has been edited at the request of the Forum Member.

Eamonn (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Huckabee promises that? wow

'The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment:

Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church.

Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another.

Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion.

No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance.

No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion.

Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa.

Excerpt from Thomas Jeffersons response to the Danbury Baptist Association, Jan. 1, 1802

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I have always wonder how the idea that giving monies to a non-denominational but religious organization would truly violate the above?

It is probably the interpretation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

The establishment clause prohibits 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose.

Weight prejudice; the last socially acceptable form of prejudice. How...disgusting.

People continually condemn the overweight and blame them for their condition, despite evidence that obesity owes more to genetics than to will power. These people perceive in the overweight a loss of control that they fear in themselves (Angier 1992). Studies published over a 20-year period demonstrate that Americans see fat people as "unattractive, aesthetically displeasing, morally and emotionally impaired, alienated from their sexuality, and discontent(ed) with themselves" (Crandall 1994). In my opinion, the BSA, and members of the BSA, should never encourage, promote, or endorse these erroneous perceptions, nor apply such a prejudicial, discriminatory, and hurtful label as fat to any adult leader, scout, parent, friend, casual acquaintance, or total stranger.

I encourage physical fitness in all scouts and scouters (physically strong). I am not qualified, nor authorized, nor willing to determine who is, to use the disapproving, often insulting term from the subject line, fat. The determination is far too subjective.

Prejudice in any form is repugnant.

Angier, Natalie. 1992. "Why So Many Ridicule the Overweight." New York

Times November 22, 1992, p. 38.

Crandall, Christian S. 1994. "Prejudice against Fat People: Ideology and

Self-Interest." Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 66(5): 882-

894.

(This message has been edited by ddibben)(This message has been edited by ddibben)

Sir:

Does it really honor the hard work of locals who understand the local situation far better than folks half way across the country and who are just trying to do their best by kids? Who knows better what the local need is?

Fact is, you can't reach the kids and families in at-risk, high-poverty environments without workin' with the Churches. At least not without greatly reducin' your effectiveness.

Argh! You paint with such broad strokes!

I mean no offense, but here, half way across the country,my units are in an at-risk, high-poverty rural (semi-agrarian) area. The church that formally sponsored our units pulled its sponsorship over ten years ago. The community organization that has sponsored our units since is very, very involved. We are very effective. We reach 'em just fine.

I am sorry that the kids did not get to play soccer. Our kids do not get to play soccer either.

A.) The Los Padres Council signed a non-discrimination agreement to gain access to CDGB funds for a non-discriminatory, no-obligation, clinic at which completed BSA Youth membership applications were not required.

or

B.) The Los Padres Council signed a non-discrimination agreement to gain access to CDGB funds for a Soccer And Scouting Jump-Start Day, a recruiting/organization day where parents must fill out the BSA Youth application for each youth who is not already a registered member, these applications being cross-referenced by the registration and scheduling coordinator to ensure that each parent (for the boys) had completed the appropriate application.

From halfway across the country, it looks like B, so this was a good catch by Merlyn and/or SFA.

Thank you, sir.

From the "District Nominating Committee Guidelines"

"3. The District Commissioner is to be elected as a Member-At-Large, but is offered for appointment and approval as District Commissioner by the Council Board of Directors through the recommendation of the Council Commissioner, and the concurrence of the Scout Executive. The District Commissioner is not elected at the District Annual Meeting."

I have a lot of BSA literature.

No District positions? I am a little confused-

Position code

61 District chairman

62 District vice chairman

75 District member at large

79 District committee member

81 District commissioner

82 Assistant district commissioner

(This message has been edited by ddibben)

Sir

If few people have seen "The District," and I will take your word for that as I do not know, I will guess that fewer still have seen the "Handbook For District Operations; Roles and Responsibilities of the Operating Committee and Commissioner Staff." I have both.

Book learnin' can sometimes be a bad thing. I have a tendency to apply and/or compare what I learn to the real-world situations I encounter. When I cannot reconcile what I observe with what I have learned, I am compelled to find out why. One of my many faults.

If I have unintentionally made disparaging remarks about your District committee, or anyone else's District committee, I apologize.

[break]

Cubmaster Randy:

Sir

I know that CORs do not "normally attend" District committee meetings. This has been made very clear to me by our District committee. I am trying to understand why the CORs are not involved. The phrases invited to attend and/or welcome to attend are, truthfully, annoying as heck. I mean no specific offense to you; your turn of phrase simply brought this to my mind.

Simplistically, district members-at-large are invited, or recruited, by the District nominating committee.

Interested scouters are welcome to attend (as far as I know).

In my opinion, CORs are required to attend by virtue of their acceptance of the appointment, and by my understanding of the BSA (my emphasis added in the following):

From the "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America," Article VI, section 3, clause 7;

"In territory supervised by local councils, each chartered organization shall appoint a volunteer, other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader, as its chartered organization representative to represent it as a member of the district committee and as a voting member of the local council."

Paraphrased from "The Chartered Organization Representative," BSA publication #33118D (2004), page 8:

CORs are the chartering organization's "voice" on the council and district committee. Most district committees meet monthly on a set date. This enables the COR, and the organization the COR represents, to take advantage of available district service. At the monthly district committee meetings, CORs can contribute facts from the units standpoint based upon the CORs knowledge of them. This is valuable information to the committee and "helps it to keep its program realistic and tuned to the needs of the units."

From the "Annual Charter Agreement" No. 28-182R

Appoint a chartered organization representative who is a member of the organization and will coordinate all unit operations within it. He or she will represent the organization to the Scouting district and serve as a voting member of the local council.

From "Training the Chartered Organization Representative" (http://www.scouting.org/relationships/04-113/04.html)

The council is a grassroots organization in that there are more CORs than council members at large. So the control of the council belongs to the chartered organizations.

From what I have read in forums such as this, and from what I have learned thru correspondence with other CORs throughout the BSA, members-at-large control the districts and councils rather than the organizations that charter scouting as a part of their youth outreach program. In my opinion, this conflicts with the published intent of the BSA.

District committees composed entirely of members-at-large may become myopic, self-perpetuating good-old-boy organisms that are not attuned to the needs/wants/desires of the units the committee is charged with supporting. The annual election process becomes farcical when the only attending, voting members are the same members-at-large that voted for themselves the year before. An election is the privilege of making a choice. If there is no choice, then the annual election is merely the endorsement of the status quo by the people who created the status quo.

I do not wholly agree with how our District committee meetings are conducted ("Mere reporting by members is insufficient reason for the committee to meet" #33070E page 22), but I keep my mouth shut and attend. I assumed the responsibility of attendance when I accepted the appointment as representative for our chartering organization. I offer to assist (and I am turned down every time by the same committee members who "have too much to do"), I give input when appropriate, but for the most part, I watch our particular District mechanism grind slowly, tediously, mind-numbingly on.

and I still do not know where or when the actual work of the district committee is being conducted.

Sir

I apologize for not being clear.

When you wrote "I think most scouters would be amazed to learn what a district committee meeting is really supposed to be and when the real work of the district is supposed to be done," I was eager to be "amazed," thus my poorly composed response.

I would like to "learn what a District committee meeting is really supposed to be."

I would like to know "when the real work of the District is supposed to be done."

I would like to know if there BSA District committees that actually operate according to the suggested guidelines.

YIS

DDibben

singular, not plural.

I think most scouters would be amazed to learn what a district committee meeting is really supposed to be and when the real work of the district is supposed to be done.

Sir

I would like to learn what a District committee meeting is really supposed to be. I would like to know when the real work of the District is supposed to be done.

In my direct and recent experience, BSA publications such as "The District" (#33070E 2006) and "Handbook For District Operations; Roles and Responsibilities of the Operating Committee and Commissioner Staff," part II, "Guidelines For District Committee and Operating Committee Meetings," (referenced on page 22 of publication #33070E) have little to do with the reality that is our District committee.

It looks good on paper, tho. Are there District committees that actually operate according to the literature?

Off topic a little, my copy of publication #33070E (2006) features our District highlighted (so to speak) on the cover. Very strange.

Sir, with respect, the position of COR is that of a Council scouter.

Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Article VIII, Section 1, Clause 2.

"Unit Scouters. All adult members registered with the unit, except the chartered organization representative who shall be considered a council Scouter."

My District considers CORs to be unit scouters. When I became a COR I researched the position thoroughly. The contemptuous looks I received the first time I wore silver tabs to Roundtable were worth the time spent in researching the uniform requirements.

[vent mode]

In our District

the reason for the lack of participation of CO representatives at the District level is that the CORs are unwelcome.

CORs are considered to be Unit scouters. Unit scouters do not belong at District committee meetings.

District scouters want financial support and compliance from the Unit scouters, believing that they, by virtue of their position in the District, are more knowledgeable and therefore more empowered. Active CORs represent empowerment of the chartered partners (CAC!).

the District committee members protect their authority. Cronyism, not meritocracy, is de rigueur.

the District committee does not support the scouting program of the chartered partners as much as dictate the scouting program to the units.

[/vent mode]

I suppose it could just be me- I am one of those independent-minded COR types pushin' things.

Scouting used to be fun.

"A lot of SE's don't really want lots of independent-minded COR types on "their" council boards or pushin' things at an annual meeting."

"Most district meetings tend to be just scouting details - info on the next camporee and such. An IH or COR can't contribute to that, eh? It's a waste of his/her time."

I do not understand why an IH or COR cannot contribute to the details of scouting within a District or Council. Shouldnt he details of scouting in a District reflect the (collective) desire of the chartered partners, rather than the will of a handful of self-appointed members-at-large?

Every second Tuesday of the month I waste several hours attending a District committee meeting. After a year of this I still do not know where the actual work of the District committee is being conducted.

"A man has got to know his limitations."

When I was an unmarried man I had no limitations. Sixties muscle cars, 1-litre bikes, and F-14s.

Got married, had a family, haven't ridden much since. Tried a Harley, but it felt...wrong.

Fast. My pleasure is fast.

When my brothers and I were young we used to chase cows on a stripped-down Ducati 500 (more fun than horses). Hit a ditch in the pasture, came over the bars. Fortunately, the Ducati landed on me, so it was not mangled too badly. That was the important thing, and, anyway, chicks dig scars.

Joined the Navy, came off my first cruise (USS America), paid cash for the fastest bike I could find, a '79 GS1000 Suzuki. Rode it off the side of Tiger Mountain in Issaquah, Washington, two weeks later. I had just installed a Kerker and re-jetted the Mikunis, and was on a test drive down the mountain. As a native flatlander, I was unused to mountains, the inertia they impart, and the 90 degree turns at inconvenient intervals. Spent several weeks in hospital. The squadron commander threatened to bust me for destruction of Gov. Property (me).

Full coverage insurance replaced bike. I promptly blew an engine racing a KZ1000. Replaced the engine, was shortly thereafter run over by a shingle truck in the Cascades. Squadron commander decides that I must enjoy stitches (I was a veritable chick magnet), and threatens to bust me for malingering.

Rebuilt bike, attached a sport fairing, rode it from Wash. State to Kansas City. Happened upon a straight, deserted stretch of highway in Wyoming, rolled on the gas, tucked into the fairing...and discovered that particular fairing was not rated for excessive speed. Four of the six plastic screws that held the windscreen to the fairing snapped off (the front four), the windscreen pivoted back on the two side screws and caught me on the bridge of the nose. Broke my Foster Grants. Best riding glasses I ever had.

Replaced the plastic screws with metal screws at next town, and made it to KC just in time to wreck the bike in front of an appreciative, albeit inebriated, audience at my 5-year class reunion.

Rebuilt the bike and rode it to the Worlds Fair in Knoxville. Lost the brakes on some forgotten mountain highway. Luckily a station wagon checked my headlong plunge into the abyss. Interestingly, chicks apparently do not dig road rash.

A smart person would have recognized a trend...

Rebuilt bike, went on an Easter Run with a couple dozen other ricers in the Missouri Ozarks. Hit a dip in the road at excessive speed, compressed the front forks (blowing out the seals), and launched the bike ala Evel Knievel into a barbed-wire fence. Riding buddies were very impressed. Used same barbed-wire fence to re-attach various parts to bike.

Used duct tape to re-attach various parts of me.

Just could not keep my right hand from rolling that throttle.

Happened upon a chick who wasn't horrified by scars (I had been terribly misinformed about the whole "chicks dig scars" thing), got married, had kids, sold the bike. That was more than a quarter-century ago.

Thank goodness the Hayabusa was not available then. I priced one, tho, after watching the Hayabusa videos on YouTube...