Lugnuts Dad

Yeah, what they said  ^     Stick with it, something will come up.

Three years ago, my step-son changed Cub Packs for his Webelos II year. At that time his new pack had all the leaders they needed. I kinda wanted to get involved but wasn't exactly sure what I could do.

Fast-forward one year... The troop he crossed into was a little low on adult leaders and the Scoutmaster needed a #2 for the Fall Camporee. Guess who got the phone call. Next thing I know, I'm registering as an ASM and TDL for my step-sons former pack (the troop's feeder) that needed another leader at that point. Went to a couple training sessions and found out that I really did like what I was doing.

After 2 more years and several more training sessions (read: every training that has been offered) and attending Wood Badge (quite an experience) I find myself still an ASM and a TDL (for my grandson now), in addition to Assistant CubMaster, District Training Chairman and Cub Scout Roundtable Staff. I'm also planning our District Winter Camporee.

This may not be what you envision for your involvement (neither did I), but my advice is to stay involved. Participate in everything that you can. Like others have said, contact the District and volunteer at that level if it means that much.   Someone will surely (not Shirley) be able to use your skills.

If you still find yourself unwanted, come to SW Pennsylvania... We'll give you a hat to wear (assuming you have a pulse ).  Right Eamonn?

Calico-

I was being rhetorical. I remember that "oogie" feeling from football camp when I was in high school. Not fun, especially when a 205lb linebacker nails you in the gut.

Gern-

Have to check my Handbook on the treatment for hypothermia. I know you are supposed to do warm broth and such (assuming the victim is conscious of course), but I'm not sure about the food. Plus, I hesitate to take the advice of someone who drinks their own urine. Makes me wonder if he's not a few badges short of a sash. ) I have fears about the chili, too. Not because of mummy bags, but the proliferation of small propane heaters that some misguided souls (leaders included) are putting inside their tents. (This message has been edited by lugnuts dad)

  Thanks everyone for the great ideas! When I volunteered for this wonderful duty, I thought it would be like planning a BIG troop campout. Uhm, yeah, OK. Maybe not... One of these days I'll learn to say "no."

Calico,

  Never heard that before. Would that explain the "wait an hour after you eat before swimming or you'll get a cramp" theory? Is the cramp your body's way of saying that something's wrong since it's focused on digestion instead of keeping you from drowning?

I'm currently putting together our district's winter camporee and have everything pretty much under control (kudos to Kudu for activity ideas). Right now, though, my brain is twisting around alternatives to our normal cracker barrel fare. We usually have diced meat and cheese, chips, pretzels, etc. After a few calls to local deli's, I've found that the meat/cheese is fairly expensive. As a Scout is thrifty, I'm looking for alternatives.

So what you're saying ScoutNut, is that if I (as a BSA volunteer) used let's say Print Shop to create iron-ons with BSA trademarks and put them on Tshirts supplied by the parents of our Scouts at no cost, the legal department couldn't do anything?

Hypothetically speaking of course.

Here's an idea I haven't seen yet to solve the knots on the uniform issue. National could authorize a special merit badge-type sash (longer than the youth version for those of us who have had too many dump cakes). Knot only could we put our knots on it, but it would put more silver in their coffers.

Seriously, though, why is this such a big deal? The way I see it, those knots are our version of merit badges. We should be proud to wear them. Granted, our scouts should really only wear their sashes for special events, but would anyone here actually discourage a scout from putting a MB that he EARNED on his sash? It's the same principle, the boys just have a "detachable" part for their uniform.

I personally like the idea of having a "dress" shirt and a "play" shirt, but I think we should let the kids see our knots at every possible opportunity, not just BORs. Most of our boys like to earn/collect patches of every sort so we should encourage them by example. It promotes a higher level of activity in the program (isn't that a GOOD thing?). Keep the plain shirt for when you are physically active (camping, hiking, et cetera).

Right now, my shirts are unadorned, but I have earned the Cub Scouter Award. Just need to turn in the paperwork. I will be putting that knot on all 5 of my shirts (1 LS & 1 SS for Troop and Pack each, plus 1 silver for District Comedy.. er.. Committee). And, yes, if I eventually earn the District Committee Key, that will go on my Pack shirt as well. If our boys (and girls for you Venturing leaders) can't see that we're proud of our own achievements, how can we sincerely tell them that they should be proud of themselves for a job well done? Billy the Bear Scout might think "If Cubmaster Joe doesn't want to wear his Den Leader award, why should I wear my Wolf Arrow Points?" Is this an attitude we want to promote?(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)

Merriam Webster online. www.m-w.com I don't think I have a dictionary newer than 1958. The matching encyclopedia was convenient for reports when I was in school in the 80's. 30 year old reference books are very useful for plagarism. LOL Somehow I always managed to forget it when I did my bibliographies.

so "revolve" would be when that one leaves to go home?

I beg to differ...

devolve Pronunciation: \di-ˈvlv, -ˈvȯlv, d-\ Function: verb Inflected Form(s): devolved; devolving Etymology: Middle English, from Latin devolvere, from de- + volvere to roll more at voluble Date: 15th century

transitive verb : to pass on (as responsibility, rights, or powers) from one person or entity to another intransitive verb

1 a: to pass by transmission or succession b: to fall or be passed usually as a responsibility or obligation

2: to come by or as if by flowing down

3: to degenerate through a gradual change or evolution

Told you I paid attention.

Brent,

 I'm not normally one to argue an issue to which I honestly don't know the answer, nor do I usually use quotations (possibly) out of context, BUT...

Got my copy of the Leadership Training Committee Guide along with my "silvers" and my District Committee patch after work today. Haven't read through the whole thing yet, but it does seem to be a resource I should have as Training Chair. As to the aforementioned quote concerning dual (or in my case treble) tenure from pg 25, directly after the subtopic Tenure is the subtopic Approval.  "Approval for an award is the responsibility of the council training committee; however, the committee can authorize others to approve certain requirements." Here it comes... "The local council is the final authority in interpreting and approving all training recognition awards."

I'm not saying you are wrong, all I AM saying is that apparently there is SOME room for interpretation.

Winger,

I did pay attention in 9th grade. 10, 11 and 12 too when the REALLY big words got used. LOL Maybe I'll start using them too. Just don't expect me to explain myself to the confused masses. Now if there was just an interpretor for Beavah, we might be in good shape.

Brent,

I try to avoid going to our Scout Shop/Council office as much as possible as I usually end up with another hat when I leave. I do need to stop in this week for my silvers so I'll look into that book. Thanks. I did try to find some info on this topic, but all the other knot threads seem to quickly devolve into arguments about wearing no knots versus 43 rows of knots and I quickly lose interest in the arguments. If I want to listen to grade school bickering, I'll wait for my next Tiger Den meeting. Just seems to me that it would be darn near impossible for a 30yr old Scouter to have more than 4 or 5 knots (other than Eagle and AOL) without concurrent tenure, but I've seen it. Not that I'm questioning their integrity, that's for another thread.

"Devolve" Better Winger? LOL

Winger,

I know that syllabi is the plural version, I just hesitate to use those funky Latin plurals around people I don't know. Makes me feel like a snoot when they don't understand what the heck I'm talking about. If you have already done the double-tenure thing there must be provisions for it. I realize I can't use time for TDL, DL, WebDL, CM for more than one award, but it just seems ridiculous not to be able to use time for a pack or troop award concurrently with a district award, unless we're being discouraged to wear more than one hat.

Brent,

Again, haven't seen that publication. Asked for it, but haven't seen it yet. If you have an electronic copy feel free to sent me a copy. I figure I would have better luck here than with our current District/Council leadership.

Winger,

At least you have a DE. I'm in Eamonn's boat (Not his Ship) just the same District. I'm sure you've seen some of his rants about our District situation. The one we had, I have to agree with Ea, was completely worthless. Nice kid, but...

FS,

2 months on District Committee and haven't seen it yet. I'm still waiting for the syllabuses (is that a word?) for the District-level training (by the way, I'm the District Training Chairman). Give you any clues on how things are going within our District? Some of the people honestly don't know the answers, and those that do, tend not to share them.(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)

Winger, those dates you quoted look suspiciously specific lol. I do find it a bit surprising though that someone at our level would be allowed to use sensible logic and interpret (bend?) requirements like that. I thought that was the exclusive power of the almighty gods in Texas and us peons had to follow everything to the letter. Huh, 'magine dat! As I said in my prior post, I think I'll discuss this with my Scout Exec. Wouldn't want to summon the Wrath of Texas, ya know.(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)

No Cub Scouter Key?? Au contraire, well sort of... There is the Cub Scouter Award ( http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ca ) that I realized I have fulfilled. This seems to be similar to the Scoutmaster Key although not quite as involved. I'm kinda giving up on the TDL knot for this year as we've had trouble recruiting in our area (council wide, not just our pack) and the 5 new Tiger team requirement isn't realistic at this point in the year. Guess I'll just have to be patient, the clock will start over in about 2 months anyway. I think I will discuss this with our SE regardless, since the District Committee Key has the exclusive tenure clause and I intend to earn it and the BSLeader Training Award (both would look nice as I am our district's Training Chairman right now, kind of a "been there, done that, I can help" thing).

Thanks for your input Brent

Eamonn,

The district you are referring to sounds "remarkably" like the district I am currently serving due to a recent appointment as Training Chairman. Braddock Trail ring any bells? I feel I can speak for at least some of the other newbies on our committee that we do not want our district to the way of the dodo. We do however understand some of the difficulties associated with bringing it out of the ashes like a phoenix. Unfortunately, we have had little support from Council till now. Perhaps it is too late, perhaps not. I wholeheartedly agree with the present one-man show attitude, and hopefully the "Summer of Discontent" has opened a particular set of eyes. At our last committee meeting, of the 12 people listed as members on the charter, only 3 were in attendence. The other 3 people present (yes only six people were there) were not on the charter and we knew of at least 4 others not on the list. Our District Chairman was even absent. Council is telling us that we need to recruit more community people to our committee. If we can't get those who do have a vested interest in the program we are provided, how are non-scouters going to help? Perhaps we are doomed. Those of us that were there seem to be the "next generation" of super-active leaders. You know, the ones that always go to Roundtables, always go to training sessions, always take our boys camping... Basically just trying to provide quality leadership for a quality program. None of us want to see our District go under, unfortunately though, we are getting very little guidance on how things "should" be done, we're just kinda winging it. I for one would welcome any guidance you could provide, and any on the committee who know you I am sure would also welcome you. I spoke with you once at Camp Tenacharison during a training session about the Troop I serve and our Scoutmaster, and now having been through the tortures of Wood Badge (still working my ticket) I understand the faulty logic of the "that's how we've always done it" attitude to leadership and am trying to change things with our Units. Our once microscopic (just last year) Pack has now doubled in size, and I am preparing a membership/recruiting drive as part of my WB ticket.

Times change and boys change. While I can see Council's perspective on things (to a certain degree) I feel that our district and our committee (some at least) still have a lot to offer our boys.

This now concludes my rant...(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)

That's what I was hoping to hear, winger. I just didn't see the sense in restricting the use of tenure for something that is completely unrelated to another award. But, hey, we all know that BSA has some rules that are even more silly than that.

Thanks much

I have a question about tenure for training knots. Currently I am registered as a Tiger DL, but when the Troop that our Pack feeds recharters I am going to be put on as an ASM. I also was recently appointed to our District Committee as Training Chairman. As our Pack is one of 4 in a very small community, I've had problems getting the five Tiger Cubs for me to earn the TDL knot. So I figured I could work on the Cub Scouter knot. Only thing I need for that is the Service Project which will be done this year as part of my WB ticket. Since I will be involved with the Troop now too, I was looking at the BS Leader's Training Award. Plus there's the District Committee Key too.

Now I know that a lot of the awards say "tenure for this award cannot blah blah blah..." But can it still be used if the awards are for different programs (Boy Scout vs. Cub Scout)? As of recharter, I will be registered as a leader for both. Let's not get into the whole "more than one hat" discussion either lol. Also how would the tenure requirement for the District Key fit into all of this? Will it take me 7 years (2 for Cub Scouter, 2 for BS Leader, 3 for District Key) or is there some way of overlapping?

I don't want to get into the "panamanian general" argument, but I've taken a VERY active approach to Scouts in my 2 short years as a leader. And I want my fellow Scouters and parents, not to mention the boys, to recognize that I do have some experience (and a heck of a lot of training) and might actually have something intelligent to say. In my area, a lot of people look down on us TDL's like we're not "real" leaders even though we may have the hardest group to keep focused.

Sorry this was so long but I was hoping for informed opinions and didn't want to have to answer too many questions over and over.

ustbeeowl, I think whoever came up with the badger thing was using mushrooms! LMAO

Wow Kudu! Excellent resource! I knew I came to the right place. Thanks!

LD

I used to be a Fox

I was recently appointed to our District Committee and at our Nov meeting the topic of our Winter Camporee came up. At that point there was no planning leadership for the event. Naturally I took the polar bear by the fangs and volunteered to organize things. I'm trying to put together a small planning team and have come up with a few ideas for a custom patch for the participants, but I've so far drawn a blank as far as activities go (other than a Klondike). I have been to a couple Fall camps with my Troop, but never a Winter one (our SM says he is getting "too old and feeble" and refuses to camp in the winter). I have looked at the B-P Book of Games from MacScouter and have considered using one or two of them in keeping with the anniversary theme for the next couple years, but I still need some other stuff to keep 75-100 cold teenage boys busy. Our camporee is scheduled for the first weekend in March and we haven't had snow for the event the last 4 or 5 years to my knowledge.

Any help out there?

Thanks go out to everyone who chimed in. Since the consensus is the end of the school year (June 1) I think I''ll go with that and have a VERY active summer program. Needless to say I want to get this all done as soon as I can, but I want to make sure I do it right. I''ll talk to my counselor about this and see what she says, since she has to decide whether I''ve completed my goals.

I used to be a Fox...

LD

I had some trouble with the wording for my ticket, although not as much one member of my patrol. He had to rewrite his 6 or 7 times while we were at camp.

It helps some EP. My problem is the Day Camp requirement for the OAA falling in the middle of my ticket period. I just want to do the right thing for the kids. And I thought the headaches would go away after I wrote the darn thing. lol

As part of my Wood Badge ticket, I'm "encouraging" participation in the Outdoor Activity Award and World Conservation Award within my Pack. My concern is when exactly does a Wolf become a Bear, etc. When the rank for that year is earned, at the B&G, or the end of the school year? The requirements for those awards are rank-dependent and I don't want to have to wait till the next program year starts to work on some of the requirements. Would activities that a boy does in the spring as a Wolf count toward the award as a Bear, for example? I know that a boy is considered to have advanced when it comes time to go to Day Camp, but I'm just plain confused. Any help?

BTW: Our B&G is very late every year, end of May. Not my decision.

Fox Patrol

NE-IV-197

"Back to Gilwell..."(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)