KISMIF_Works

We have always done group meals at Pack campouts. We just did a campout last weekend with 70 people.

I believe the keys are a simple menu and proper cooking equipment. For meals we use two double-burner propane cook stoves and one big griddle top that completely covers one of the cook stoves. We traditionally make dutch oven fruit cobbler one night, and used four ovens this time.

Typically breakfast is pancakes and sausage or scrambled eggs and bacon, with cold cereal available as well. We use uncooked sausage but pre-cooked bacon. Lunch or dinner meals are usually soup and sandwiches, hot dogs and sides, or pasta with sauce and meatballs.

We buy as much as we can at Sam's Club. A giant bag of pancake mix costs around $7 and will make enough pancakes for the entire group. You can buy a large bag of precooked frozen meatballs to throw in with a couple giant jugs of spaghetti sauce.

We don't go so far as assigning cook or clean-up duty, but always have volunteers for either duty at each meal. We let scouts help cook, even the Tigers, but they are under adult supervision.

The typical feedback we get from parents for boys that aren't returning is "sports" and/or "lost interest". Our local youth football program has practices 4 nights a week plus a game on the weekend, and includes grades 1 - 6! We have a local soccer club accepting kids in grades 1 - 6, that includes a travel component. I am constantly stressing that we are flexible and understand that boys will miss some meetings due to other interests, but the sports programs don't necessarily reciprocate. Miss practice and you may miss out on playing.

Another sense I get from some parents is that joining Cub Scouts for a year is similar to signing up for a season of sports. Once they've done it then they may not necessarily feel compelled to continue (i.e., "we tried that"). I'm not sure how to address that, either. I don't want to scare away parents by making them think they need to make a multi-year commitment.

The flip side to the sports argument is that I frequently hear from parents about how their son just isn't interested in sports, and that they are glad our program is available so that they can get him involved in an activity that isn't sports-related.

This is a Pack prize, right? If so then it sounds similar to what we have done for the past couple years. We give back $20 when the scout reaches his sales goal, $40 if his sales are twice his goal, and so on. The money can be spent towards any Pack expense - so this means campouts, day camp, annual Pack dues. It can't be applied towards uniform or camping gear stuff (stuff outside of the Pack), it can't be carried over from one year to the next, and it can't be transferred outside of the Pack.

We did a parent survey the year before we started the program and the year after we started the program. It indicated that for our group it was a hit, with the parents at least. We had about 80% saying that they liked the program and wanted to continue it, with no votes opposing it. We even had 40% of respondents indicating that the incentive had at least "some" impact on them helping their scout reach his sales goal.

So from our perspective it benefits both the parent and the scout. The parent gets immediate reward for putting forth a solid effort in our fundraiser, which is voluntary. The scout is getting more opportunity to participate in Pack events.

Andee741 wrote: "I didn't know there are schools with more than 1 Pack. Are large Elementary Schools? Are they rural schools with students spreadout?"

Welcome to the forums, Andee741!

We are in a metro suburb, but in our school district each grade is located at a single school rather than distributed across a few schools as is common for the elementary grades in many school districts. For this reason when the town has had more than one Pack, the Packs had to share the schools.

sasha wrote: "I think there is a learning curve when it comes to cub scout activities. I see new leaders, male and female, choosing projects that are too complicated or hazardous for the age group and the time allotted."

Completely agree. I always complete a craft or construction project myself at home before the meeting, and time how long it takes. I believe this has a few benefits. First, it provides the scouts/parents with a sample of the finished project to help them visualize what we are doing. Next, it helps me determine how much time to budget for the project (adjusting my time for scout time). Finally, it helps me evaluate what steps may be too time-consuming or frustrating for the age group of my scouts. I may find a way to prep those steps in advance, or I can at least be aware of them to invite parent assistance during the project.

Next Thursday will be the third year of our group conducting a recruiting night with a formal agenda along the lines of what fauxc and jc2008 describe. The couple years before that were "learning opportunities" for our leadership, where the event was very chaotic.

Our signup night is scheduled for about two weeks after the school open houses. We arranged to set up a table at the open houses in order to promote the program, with a posterboard display, cars and boats, and a digital photo fram running a slideshow. We passed out flyers promoting the signup night, and had a contact form for parents who were interested in a reminder email/phone call closer to the signup date (we got about 20 names).

At the signup night we generally put up the same display from our open house, as a sort of gathering activity. We hold our event at a pavilion at our city park, which is very near by a nice playground. The playground makes for a great gathering activity for the boys. During the program we do a break-out where the boys launch alka-seltzer rockets.

We are different with regards to den breakout, in that we don't set aside time to do that. We group the tables by grade/rank, and have a Pack leader/volunteer stationed at each table to answer specific questions for the parents.

Basementdweller - I really like your group's approach, also. A bit more low-key and intimate. We only advertise the start time for our signup, and it seems that most people arrive at that time. The ones who show up later can get caught up by asking questions to our helpers, I guess. In this way the signup is handled like the other Pack events; we really try to start each event on time so we can end it on time. Parents learn to be on time if they don't want to miss the start.

Hi webelonewbie,

Welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new leadership position! I was den leader for my older son from Wolf through Webelos, and have been den leader for my younger son from Tiger to present (Bear), and really enjoyed the Webelos years the best.

To answer your most recent question, Webelos scouts are allowed to start (safe, controlled) fires. Doing so is a requirement for the Outdoorsman activity badge.

Many great suggestions in this thread already, but I'll add a couple more:

- The Trax spreadsheets are great for tracking advancements and for generating simple summary print-outs to share with the parents.

- Probably the best part of this program is that you can "dig in" a bit more to each activity badge. Don't try to cram an entire activity badge into a single meeting. In fact, some of the badge requirements (especially Fitness and Citizen) are pretty dry so it can work out nicely to sprinkle in some of those requirements along with some "fun" requirements from another badge (like Athlete or Sportsman).

For events where we need to know attendance in advance, we use the event sign-up feature of our Pack website (we use the myPack service). This is usually a good indicator of attendance, and I'll plan for maybe 10% more to account for anybody extra who might show up at the last minute.

We also use an automated phone call system (CallingPost), which is a HUGE timesaver for getting out an announcement to the Pack at times where the weekly email blast or sending a mass email just aren't appropriate (e.g., last-minute stuff). There have been times where the sign-up for an event just didn't feel right based on past experience, and in those cases I've used the phone call system to remind people that the event is coming up, that we need to know if they are coming in order to plan, and to respond in some manner if they are coming. People are usually good about following up after that.

I don't rely on email responses for a Pack event. I have enough trouble getting email responses from other leaders. If I do want a response over email then I put something like "**REPLY NEEDED**" in the subject.

We flat ran out of time to generate it this year, but did a parent survey each of the past two years before. I found it to be very useful to get the pulse of Pack. I made up a hardcopy version both years, and used Zoomerang the first year for an online version. Zoomerang worked well but shortly after that they placed limitations on the "free" version that were so severe that we couldn't use it the next year.

Our survey is set up like a "year-in-review", with questions about the fun and value of the events we had as well as questions about ideas for future events. If you are interested in seeing a copy just PM me.

Both times we did the survey at our Blue & Gold Banquet. Most families were in attendance and there was plenty of time for filling out a survey. We had many more hardcopy responses than online responses (something like 3 to 1).

As far as summer events go...they are generally the less-attended events for us, but we still get a decent turnout and have a great time. I find it works well for us if we plan an event that is simple to coordinate and doesn't require a large attendance in order to work budget-wise. For example, we have an Ice Cream Social in August at a local park. The Pack provides ice cream and ice water, and families bring a topping. We don't worry too much about squeezing advancements out of it. The scouts are just happy to get together and play. We played a family game of kickball last year, and everyone seemed to enjoy that.

Another simple event is a family hike at a nearby trail, maybe followed by a family picnic. I suggest trying one or two simple events like that this summer if you are getting resistance from other leaders, as a way of feeling out the real interest in your Pack for summer events.

I am CM for our Pack and also act as DL for my son's den. I enjoy the program and the opportunity to interact with the boys, and we have made some great family friends through our involvement in scouts. I put a lot of effort into planning and executing the program and am proud of where the Pack is currently.

However, having said all of that I am a volunteer and my involvement in the program is contingent upon the continued enjoyment of the experience for my family.

As far as the ex-leader who is running his own show and making negative comments, my advice is to stick to the high road. Like others have said, focus on your program and let it speak for itself.

As far as your COR sending negative emails to you and others in your Pack, my advice is to confront the COR face-to-face and make it known that you will not stand for that type of behavior. You don't have to be aggressive or angry, but rather be calm but firm. Remind yourself and your COR that you are a volunteer and you are not obligated to put up with any of that. I feel the quality of our program speaks for itself to anybody who cares to come see a Pack event or sit in on a committee meeting. If you feel the same way then you should remind the COR that he/she can and should be present to witness the quality of your program firsthand as opposed to relying on secondhand information.

If you did nothing wrong then it is not on you to mend anything with the COR. The COR was in the wrong for blasting you based on hearsay and he/she owes you an apology.

Our schools start before Labor Day, so we are fortunate in that we have an extra week or two to get the ball rolling before we need to kick off popcorn sales. We are also fortunate in that our schools allow us to set up a table at the open houses to promote Cub Scouts.

We haven't formalized the schedule yet but it will surely look something like this:

- Last week of August: promote our recruiting night at the school open houses.

- 1st week of September (Labor Day week): hold our recruiting night.

- 2nd week of September: Den meetings.

- 3rd week of September: Pack meeting and popcorn kick-off.

I think it works better for new families to have a Den meeting before the first Pack meeting. It's a much gentler introduction to the program to meet with the Den than the entire Pack.

As far as the popcorn sale goes, I am upfront about it at the recruiting night. I acknowledge that it's bad timing and not much fun to be asked to fundraise as soon as you join a new program, but I also emphasize the importance of the fundraiser (using real numbers from the previous year) and that it is the ONLY fundraiser they'll be asked to do for the year. We have had very good participation in the fundraiser over the past few years.

I am curious about your Parent Meeting. Are you combining it with your committee and leader's meeting? Is it mostly a meet-and-greet? Is it intended as an adults-only meeting? I think it's a great idea to forge relationships with the incoming parents but just wonder how well the meeting is attended.

I promote our Pack as a "camping Pack", and can point to at least 1 opportunity each quarter to camp with our Pack:

- Fall (Pack-run)

- Winter (Pack-run in a heated cabin)

- Spring (some type of camp-in program at a Zoo, Science Center, etc.)

- Summer (overnight program run by the local minor league baseball team)

- Summer (Pack-run)

- Summer (Council-run Day Camp)

In addition to these Pack campouts I got the ball rolling on Webelos den camping, so that Webelos are typically camping once or twice a year.

If I was in a council with a policy on Family Campouts like the one yours has, then I would ask for clarification about the programs run by the Zoo/Science Center/Baseball Team, etc. In my opinion those shouldn't count against my limit of 2 Family Campouts, but if they did then I would try to replace them with one of the council-run programs that don't count against the limit (e.g., the Cub Scout Family Adventure or Fall Festival).

I have come to appreciate mixing camp programs run by other organizations in with Pack-run campouts, because it gives us a break from planning every event...especially if you're not sure of the turn-out. Our turn-out for the baseball camp-in has been extremely low in some years, but it didn't matter because all we had to do was submit the registration. We weren't banking on a minimum sign-up to make the campsite or food budget work.

Interestingly enough, our camping participation is lowest in the summer. I'm guessing the combination of baseball, vacations and scout burn-out explains that. Knowing that means I will tend to prefer events where we just sign-up and show-up in the summer versus the fall and winter where our participation is the highest. This summer we will likely offer the baseball and Day Camp events but nix the family campout.

In my opinion, in the interest of transparency/full disclosure, the Treasurer should definitely be registered as an adult leader. I was surprised to learn recently that there is no formal "Treasurer" position and that our Treasurer is simply a Committee Member.

It's a position that's as important as Cubmaster and Committee Chair in my opinion. We have budget updates at each (mostly) monthly Leaders/Committee meeting where each deposit and expenditure is reported. I like to ensure that we look legit should a parent ever question where funds are going, and having our Treasurer registered is a step in the right direction.

That's funny because we've never done the stomp rockets. Always something new to learn about and try...

For our alka-seltzer rockets we use a 35mm film canister, alka-seltzer tablets and water. There is a resource on the web where I found some paper templates to decorate the film canister like a rocket with a nose and fins. We found that process to be too time-consuming last year (even with the parts pre-cut), so this year we just did the nose.

But basically you fill the canister with some water, drop in part of an alka-seltzer tablet, quickly put on the cap and set the canister on a flat surface (parking lot, sidewalk) with the cap facing down. Wait a few seconds and the pressure build-up pops the cap off, shooting the canister into the air. Different combinations of water and tablet result in different heights, but we've seen some shoot as high as 12 feet.

It's very simple, the boys can launch themselves several times in a short time period, and at this age they think it's cool. Even my boys who have done it before still enjoy launching them.

We have several CVS and Walgreen stores with photo labs nearby, so we swing by and ask for any used film canisters. Some canisters work much better than others...we use clear ones that have a lid that fits on the inside of the canister. The ones with lids that close around the outside of the canister rarely get any lift at all.

A very cheap and very simple break-out activity we've done at our recruiting night the past couple years now is the alka-seltzer rocket launch. A few of our adult leaders go off with the boys to launch the rockets while I go over the program with the parents.

The rockets really seem to keep the boys engrossed - both years now we've finished up our parent discussion and have a snack ready and waiting, but not a boy around. I have to go tell the boys to wrap it up and come back for snack!

It's the kind of activity that would be fun for you to incorporate into your Pack meeting regardless of how many new recruits show up. If you do have a good turn-out of potential scouts/parents, and if you are able to get a couple adults to help watch the boys while they launch then you can probably get a good 20 minutes of time to talk to the potential parents.

Hi noname,

I admire your willingness to promote your Pack when it's at what appears to be a low point organizationally. I read back through your posts to get some history on your situation, but still have a couple questions.

You mentioned that you are a Pack of "1 leader(me) and 8 non family cubs". Does that mean you don't have any of your own children in the Pack? Just curious.

When and where do you anticipate holding this recruiting nite? It doesn't sound like it will be done as part of a school function (i.e., open house), correct?

Honestly it sounds like unless you are able to recruit more leaders then you are already at capacity (1 leader to 8 cubs). That's how I would focus my recruiting night. Be open about the fact that you are re-launching the Pack and are looking for some enthusiastic adult volunteers who are interested in "getting in on the ground floor".

I like pchadbo's previous post looking for overnight ideas in the greater Boston area, so I'm copying it for our Pack's region (Cleveland, OH).

We are about to do our annual program planning and are looking for that "big" Pack event. Something in the March/April/May timeframe works best for us, which makes an indoor overnighter most attractive. We've done the Buffalo Naval Park overnighter, the Great Lakes Science Center camp-in and the Columbus Zoo camp-in. Each summer we participate in the local minor league baseball game and camp-in.

I'm aware that the Pittsburgh and Cleveland Zoos do a camp-in program. COSI in Columbus, OH does a camp-in program but from what I've read at their website it appears that they don't want family members participating.

Any other ideas?

Our RTs are pretty bad. In fact, when a few of us went to this past August's RT we joked that they demonstrated how *not* to run a Pack event...killing time with announcements from multiple people at the start of the meeting, with nearly each one failing to keep his/her announcement brief (picture reading right from the handout)...next to no preparation for the breakout sessions (on more than one occasion I've heard the person heading up the session comment about not knowing he/she was doing so until that night).

The topics they promote are promising, but the delivery fails to live up to expectations. Now I make an effort to get down to the key meetings only for information purposes (Aug. for recruiting stuff, Sep. for popcorn stuff, Jan. for recharter, Mar. for day camp).

I like the Pack planning/recruiting topics you have planned. My suggestion is to fill in the holes with some Pack programming topics, for example:

1. How does your Pack plan/execute a Pinewood Derby? It could be very interesting to hear from representatives from large-, medium- and small-sized Packs about how each one does it. If possible have some track and timers on-hand to display.

2. Ideas/suggestions for nearby scout tours as Pack or Den meetings. In my opinion tours are fantastic for keeping the Den program varied and interesting, but the key is knowing what's available and who to contact. If possible compile a short list of tours in advance to stimulate the discussion, with the intent of adding to it that night. Relevant details for each tour include location, contact info, available tour times, cost, and advancements earned by the tour.

3. How does your Pack plan/execute a Family Campout? So we all have BALOO training, but how does each of our Packs camp? Where do you go, how much do you charge, what fun stuff do you plan, what do you eat, etc.?

For each of these topics be prepared to guide the discussion, but promote real group feedback. It can be a great way for all involved to hear about what has and hasn't worked for other groups.

Lisabob: I think doing a group training session at the first den meeting is a great idea!

sasha: I think the approach you take as a DL "coach" is great. Have you ever had difficulty recruiting someone to step up? What method do you use to ensure the group views you as a temporary mentor?

ScoutNut wrote: "True, but at least you ARE DOING your job description. Did you learn about the "little extras" by polling other companies?"

I learned about them from my coworkers. I guess I consider all of our different Packs as groups or departments of the same BSA organization, and to me it seems like a great idea for one CC to ask other CCs about the nuances of the position.

I could be reading it wrong, but it seems like CCbytrickery is trying to avoid conflict with the CM rather than create it. Also being "the type of person who has to have everything in its place and all the I's need to be dotted and the T's need to be crossed" is a good trait for the position, in my opinion. Attention to detail is important in all of the leadership positions.

For the 1st-year Webelos we do a brief graduation ceremony centered around the Arrow of Light that involves an AoL plaque. We present them with a Boy Scout Handbook to use in working on their AoL requirements. After that we involve them with putting the Webelos neckerchief/slide on the new 1st-years.

ScoutNut wrote: "Why would you agree to take a job when you do not plan on doing what "the rules" require of you? Would you do that in your paid job? If you did, how long would you expect to keep it? "

In my past and current paid jobs if I only did what the "rules" (job description) stated and didn't learn about or do the little extra unwritten things that were expected of me then I think I would have been in trouble.

I discover those extra things by observing or asking my coworkers. I think CCbytrickery is taking a similar approach here, and will be better off for it.

It can be very helpful to the CM if the CC becomes the "go-to" person for the parents, especially at busy Pack events where the CM is trying to focus on conducting the event and interacting with the scouts. Parents should learn to take their questions about recharter, fundraising, payments, advancements, etc. to the CC, who will answer them directly or steer them to the responsible person as necessary.

The CM is busy enough with planning and executing the program as it relates to the scouts (at the Pack- and Den-level). A good CC keeps on top of the administrative side of the program so that the CM can stay focused.

A good CC makes sure the program finances are in order. This requires regular coordination with the Treasurer as well as coordination of fundraising events (hopefully consulting with another parent or two who are heading up the fundraiser).

A good CC makes sure the Pack paperwork is in order, such as rechartering and submitting youth and adult applications.

A good CC makes sure Pack events are on-track logistically, making reservations for the event or facility, ensuring a tour plan gets submitted if necessary, coordinating sign-ups, etc.

A good CC plays a vital role in adult volunteer selection/recruitment. Since the CC is more "behind-the-scenes" than the CM at events it provides the CC with built-in opportunities to socialize with the parents and speak with them about volunteering for specific needs. For the CM this must usually be done after events or outside of events, which is a bit more difficult.

The Webelos program offers 20 different activity badges, but only a total of 8 must be earned for a boy to earn the Arrow of Light. View the 8 badges as requirements and the rest as electives. I just don't see the point in "pencil-whipping" to get a few extra badges.

My approach as Webelos DL was to offer a program that ensured that if a scout regularly attended den meetings and made it to at least 1 Pack campout but hopefully 1 of our Webelos overnighters, then he would fulfill the Arrow of Light requirements after 18 months (starting in September of the 1st year and ending in February of the 2nd).

Of the 8 activity badges 4 are required - Fitness, Citizen, Readyman and Outdoorsman. With help from my scouts we chose Craftsman, Artist, Handyman and Athlete to round out the list. I mixed in partial requirements from other badges to spice up den meetings at times (such as building a catapult - Engineer), but didn't worry about wrapping up all of the requirements for those badges in our den meetings.

Doing it this way freed me up to allow the scouts more time at den meetings to do things on their own. Earning the Craftsman badge the "right" way takes *several* den meetings. I felt less pressured to finish a badge on a given night. We could spend time planning for our Webelos overnighter during the den meeting before it. The scouts worked on building their own Arrow of Light plaques during the final den meetings. They loved doing it, even though no "advancement" was earned.

I reminded the scouts several times that they could earn the other activity badges on their own. Many of them ended up with a total of 9 (adding on Sportsman). Even though they didn't get all 20 badges, 7 of my 8 scouts stuck with the program, earned Arrow of Light, and are having a great time in their new Troop.

I had one scout who earned a total of about 13 of the badges. It was clear that he and his parents worked together on the badges, and they made a point of presenting the accomplishments to me so that he received his badges. Other than that I was never approached by any of the other parents asking why they "only" received 9 of the 20 available badges.

(This message has been edited by KISMIF_Works)

That's a great story, thanks for sharing it with us!

One of the things I love about scouts is that opportunity to shine in different ways. The boys seem to conclude rather quickly how "good" they are at the traditional sports like soccer, baseball and football. With Cub Scouts you get the opportunity to take them outside of their comfort zone for brief moments and introduce them to new things. You might even ignite an interest in something new that otherwise they won't discover until later in life.