Kevin M

Over 18 you're not supposed to wear a rank patch. If you mean your OA patch, of course you may.

For those who aren't sure, the admonition IS in the OA handbook if you know where to look. It isn't labeled as such.

The access word is supposed to be the OA admonition, but that doesn't work. There must be someone who knows how to fix the problem. Trouble is contacting that person.

ozemu:

International perspective from where? As I mentioned before, and most who have been to Nat'l or world jamborees or traveled abroad can probably attest, most countries do wear their national flag on the uniform, and in my opinion should continue to do so. As far as other patches, there are relatively few that are mandated on the uniform. The others are optional. Some like to wear more, some like less. My uniform is currently in need of a reduction. I might keep one shirt "decked out", but the other, mainly for in the field and every-day stuff, is getting cleaned up soon.

I want to go!!!! I'd love to go to Big Bend! The troop my 2 boys and I are with right now would cry if they lost sight of the 3 ton troop trailer. That's why we're visiting other troops. Once a boy learns how to cook on a pack stove and carry his gear, he's hooked. At least that's what happened to me and my buddies when our small troop planned for a year to take a backpacking trip from Houston to the Tetons back in the late 70s. From then on we packed about 60-70% of our campouts, even if it was tp pack into camp where the car was parked. We never again HAD to rely on the car for carrying big heavy gear.

There IS a collections merit badge, and it IS pretty general in nature. I think coin and stamp collecting have stayed on because those two hobbies are very big. Where can we find stats on how many boys earn those two each year?

Many, if not most member countries of the World Organization of Scouting have their nations' flag on their uniform. Why would the USA be any different. Not just a symbol of pride, but identification. As far as ID, maybe remove the "Boy Scouts" strip over the right pocket. I could see that as being redundant.

And a more visually pleasing Scout badge could be designed, if only to a brighter color. I agree on the meaning it holds for those new Scouts.

Also remember, you can personally go for the uncluttered look by wearing only the essentials on your uniform. I know several Scouters who do that.

Has anyone had luck accessing the OA forum? I keep getting a "cannot open this page" message. I also can't contact the moderator. Any info?

GLEN:

BDU= Battle Dress Uniform, what the military wears. They are available in a wide variety of colors and camo patterns. I personally would allow BDU pants ONLY if they were olive drab color IF I had a say in the matter in my troop.

They are better for field use than BSA pants, but I don't like to see them on more formal occassions like Courts of Honor and such. Camo has been specifically discouraged by BSA from what I understand.

National came out with a policy change about 8 or 9 years ago on this. In the Houston area, it was taken very seriously. The actual "tapping" was done away with, as was turning Bobcats upside down. I had seen smaller Scouts brought to tears when they were "tapped" too hard by an overzealous OA member. And I understand there had been a lawsuit when a Bobcat was dropped on his head during a pinning ceremony. Usually (not neccessarily always) when National make a major policy change, it's for a good reason. Tradition and "we did it that way when I was a Scout" aside, the emotional and physical safety of our youth must be considered. I don't agree with every rule, but I try to understand and follow them. Bottom line, CYA !!

I don't think my two Scout sons would let me forget that.

Anyone else out there?

When I was in about 7th grade, my mom, an excellent seamstress, taught me how to use the sewing machine to make simple gear for my GIJoe. Shortly after that I began sewing on all my Scouting patches, and making repairs. I even did all my patches on my military uniforms. I've offered to sew patches for Scouts in the troop. Some boys' uniforms look like they sewed everything thenselves, which is great! Others have showed up with patches stapled on, pinned on, taped on, and (horrors) ironed on. It's amazing the number of people who think the plastic backing on patches is an iron-on adhesive. When that stuff is ironed into the fabric, it WILL NOT come out. Even "Wonder Under" doesn't always come off.

I whole-heartedly agree that boys need to have at least a fundamental sewing ability.

Serious comments, suggestions, experiences, info., etc., please. (I don't need you to tell me I'm insane.) I've considered checking into becoming a professional Scouter. I've recently finished my BA, but I'm also a veteran Scout (10 years), and Scouter (15 years). Serious comments please. I've heard all the jokes.

Are we double clicking on the "submit" button, or is there a glitch in the system?

I've never been to Philmont, but I would hope they would do better on the nutrition end. Any experienced backpacker knows the importance of trail fuel (food). On the trail is no place to go on a diet! Maybe consider the NOLS approach of bulk items based on a formula of location, duration, and number of people?! Maybe we could coax someone involved with Philmont's nutrition staff to comment.

Aside from individual troop policy, the SM conference and BOR can be held on the same date. There's no stipulation on time between the two. And as mentioned by eisly, date of rank is from the BOR, and the COH is a formal recognition of the boys' accomplishments.

jmc:

The original post isn't about women in BSA. I too welcome women into the BSA ranks. The problem mentioned is the assumption that "Scout" or "Scouter" automatically refers to the BSA, omitting the GSUSA. I personally can longer ignore the girl side of Scouting... my daughters would kill me.

And unfortuneately it sometimes works the other way. I've been a registered BSA Scouter for 15 years, and a GSUSA Scouter for 1 year. At a recent Girl Scout camporee I was looked at by many like I was invading a sacred female ritual by some of the women. The girls didn't seem to have a problem, though one girl asked me why I had an official volunteer t-shirt on, not realizing that men can be registered GSUSA leaders. And the adults from my daughter's troop, as well as the service unit leader (like a district commissioner) were thrilled to have me and the two other dads present. I'll keep participating for my daughters sake, and just to spite the others.

Just had a good example last week at Summer Camp. Right after Wed. night chapel service was over, as everyone was walking away, our ASM called our boys together. I assumed he had some instruction for them as to where they needed to go next. As we all gathered around he put out his arms and all followed siut till we were all ebraced together as he said he would like to offer a prayer for our boys about to begin their OA ordeal that evening. I think all the boys were impressed, as all willingly participated and were reverent for our walk to the dining hall. The first point of the Oath is still duty to God.

Growing up and living in the South myself (LA and SE TX) I can testify that powdered sulfur in a sock works on chiggers and ticks, as does a spray with 29% DEET. Powdered sulfur, the yellow stuff from underground, is what Mike is talking about, not sulfur dioxide. I don't notice much of a smell with the powder. I once placed a small pile of powder on an upside-down #10 can in a wall tent and lit it to fumigate for bugs. Worked like a charm, but the tent DID smell like rotten eggs.(Shhh....don't tell your Scouts about a leader burning something in a tent.)

Dejavu all over again. Isn't this the same discussion we've had before?! Wear the uniform, inform and train the boys, be vigilant to idiots, be proud to be a Scout!

I thought we were talking about Venturing, and the comparisons between BSA and GSUSA. I'll ignore the last borderline remark because I was "nominated" as an adult (adults are nominated by the troop committee, not elected like boys), and there are many fine adults, both male and female who work hard in our lodge.

Anyway, I just got back from a Girl Scout Service Unit Camporee (like a District Camporee),with about 7 troops present. We had canoeing, fishing, nature scavenger hunt, hiking, and fire building. The fire lays were demonstrated by an Eagle Scout dad, while I handled lighting the evening campfire with flint and steel. And EVERY troop's firelay started with ONE match! The closing campfire had funny skits, songs, run-ons (by me), awards, and stories (by me). Overall, a great outdoors weekend, comparable to last weekends District Comporee with my 2 sons. As I said before, Girl Scouts CAN have an exciting outdoors program if the leaders provide the opportunity.

Now if we can just get GSUSA to adopt a decent male leaders' uniform.

AMEN, Stan. I was an active Cub, Scout, and Explorer for ten years, and acheived the rank of Star. I had three scoutmasters and ASM ranginging from fantastic to milk toast. But my experiences in Scouting as a youth is what made me return as an adult, where Iv'e held many positions, and worked with lots of boys over the past 15 years. No, we can't touch them all. Many will come and go, many won't come at all. But keep thinking of those few you do touch. Keep helping them run a quality program. Keep letting them know you care. And they'll remember you and their Scouting experience for life. I've gone through a couple of periods when I seriously questioned if my effort was worth it, and even went so far as to remove position and troop patches from my uniform. But there's always another boy or two coming up the line that needs you, and needs what Scouting has to offer. Now that I've written a recruiting pamphlet, I'll just say keep doing the best job you can, and those boys who see Scouting as worthwhile will keep coming.

A few clarifications. It's GSUSA, not GSA. Venturing is not a Troop. It's a seperate entity within the BSA. A boy may continue to earn Boy Scout rank only if he is registered with a troop. A Venturer cannot earn Bot Scout rank if registered only with a Venturing Crew. If we look at these as seperate programs, then the confusion lessens. A girl may register with a GSUSA troop and earn those awards while also being a member of Venturing, same as a boy may do with Boy Scouts.

As the father of two Boy Scouts and two Girl Scouts, I see first hand the lack of outdoor adventure in the girls' program. But from talking to experienced GSUSA staff at the Council office, and to a 25 year volunteer of many different councils, the biggest problem is with individuals, not the program as a whole. Those I've talked with say that the girls are allowed much more outdoor activity, but the troop leaders don't provide it. They were also very excited when I registered as an adult volunteer and offered my 15 years experience as a BSA adult volunteer. You men out there with daughters, don't gripe about the program unless you're willing to get involved and help change it! That's why I'm going camping with my daughter at a GSUSA camporee the weekend after my boys' District Camporee. I don't agree with all of GSUSA's ways, ( a little too PC), but I can do something about improving the outdoor program locally. I just can't register my daughters in Cub Scouts like they wanted to do.

Sounds like a good troop service project, but I personally wouldn't approve it as an Eagle project either. The Eagle project should be of lasting benefit to the local community, school, or religious institution. I just don't think this is Eagle project material.

It's definitely frustrating to try to encourage the boys to wear full uniform when 99% of them can't afford it. I've only paid full price for a few items for myself or my 2 sons, and we all have complete uniforms. But that takes alot of time in thrift store shopping. If enough of us make a valid statement to BSA Supply and National, our voices will eventually be heard. In the mean time, our troop continues to work on uniforms a piece at a time, encourages reasonable substitutes to save money, and allows jeans (unfortunately).

Here's an update since I started this thread: The committee said that since I'm Camping Chairman, the tent situation is up to the boys and me. Good! I'll recommend a 2-3 man size to the PLC. I've been looking around for reasonable quality inexpensive tents, and the only real options I have are mail order (Campmore), or the local Academy store. I'll take the PLC over there and teach them what to look for when tent shopping so they can take the active role in shopping. Hopefully this will encourage them to make sure the other Scouts take care of the equipment! I really appreciate all the helpful input here! Keep it coming!

Which sash? Merit badge sash, SURE! Wear your complete uniform, be confident, know your stuff, make an outstanding impression! OA sash, according to everything I've read, is only to be worn when representing the OA, or participating in an OA event. It's a sign of OA membership, not an "award".