2Eagle

I'm glad this keeps coming up. Baden Powell would have used cell phones at Mafeking if he had them. He was a real innovative guy and into the technology of his day to gain an advantage. I also like cell phones and radios because I can better track my boys with them. They are both invaluable at summer camp and outings where boys are scattered all over the place. I solve the "inappropriate use" problem by issuing a "Cell Phone Chit"...just like a Totin Chip or Firem Chip. It comes with rules and training and is a "contract" between me and the boy. I haven't had a single incident since I started issuing the CPC and it saves a ton of time and agony over who has hidden cell phones, etc. It's like many things. When it quits being "cool" to sneak around with one and show your buds then it quits being a big deal. If you want a copy of my cell phone chit send me an email.

I issue a cell phone chip...just like a Toten' Chip...it comes with rules. Violate the rules, lose a corner, lose all corners lose the phone FOREVER. I don't issue one to first year scouts until they can prove they won't get homesick. Works great. I don't care what the parents want. They can follow my rules, accompany their son on outings or go find another troop. Send me an email to coldan36@gmail.com if you want the template and I'll send it to you.

Sounds a bit like me when I was younger. I retired in 1999 as a Colonel after 26 years in the US Army so there is definitely an outlet, other than terrorist or murder suspect, for guys like us. I chose to be a "sheep dog" and protect the flock with guns. Somebody's got to do it. Maybe this kid can be encouraged to do the same.

It's tomahawk throwing...a real axe tears up the target. It's authorized...done at National Jamboree and many summer camps. Our troop carries at least 1 target everywhere we go and often 4 or more. Best targets are made of 2X12 or 2X10 pine, treated or non-treated, whichever can be got cheaper from culled lumber piles at the local lumber yards, 6 feet tall, 3 ea 2x12s side by each, piece of thin stuff like luan(sp) glued to the back with 2x4 braces on the back. Heavy but last longer. Held up by single 2x6...some times they fall over and you have to set them up again. Get cold steel hawks from knivesplus.com...can get extra handles there also. We mostly use the Frontier Hawk but have one Rifleman Hawk for the larger, stronger boys and one Trail Hawk for the very smallest boys. Cold Steel hawks are the best for throwing. We have tried them all. Run the range like a combination range and axe yard. Roped off. Permission to enter. Hawks passed using Totin' Chit protocals, etc with a range officer to run the range. We have never had a problem and I have never heard anyone say we are violating Totin' Chit rules and frankly wouldn't care if they did...and would tell them to go bother someone else. If it's good enough for the National Jamboree it must be authorized. We are going to throw hawks. It is great. The boys love it. It keeps them in camp. I have never met the boy from my Troop or others that I can't teach to stick a hawk in about 10 minutes of working with him including ones in wheelchairs and with physical and mental handicaps. Helps build self esteem and confidence...especially in impaired boys. What a joy it is to see the look on their face when they stick a hawk. Just ran a hawk range for fall camporee this weekend and we are running another for OA Fall Fellowship this coming weekend.

The new uniform is awesome. Our boys love it...which is frankly all that matters. Great to see that the rest of BSA is getting with the Troop 36 program.

Anarchist,

Caught them there my self. The Tye is no too far away and its full of trout.

My advice...come to Virginia in June. Put in on the James River at Bent Creek. Float 9 miles to James River State Park. Wear life jackets. Most places even the shortest boy can stand up when canoe tips...not if. Rapids don't even rate as a Class 1. Beaches to stop for lunch and swimming. Great place to learn canoeing skills. Don't drink the water since cows along the bank use it as a latrine. Fish for trout along the way.

OldGreyEagle,

I was shocked, shocked mind you, to read of the lab rat and 50 pounds of cheese. I think you have it confused with another food test. The way I heard it was that the rat was injected with 97 pounds of peanut butter and the scientists concluded that peanut butter causes death in labratory rats.

I can't let this pass...someone has to fight back against the continued wussification of Boy Scouts. Large honking sheath knives are essential because boys like them and they may be usefeul for some things. They are cool. When I was a kid in Scouts we carried large sheath knives...utility of use is and was immaterial. They are cool. I have never known of a youth or soldier, in my soldiering days, to get injured by falling on a sheath knife...one of the oft quoted excuses right up there with "you might put an eye out"...I've also never know a kid who put an eye out...of course probably will happen at the next outing...Our council and district does not allow sheath knives at council or district events but we allow them at troop events. Funny that only one boy ever carries one but a lot of adults do...must be that chidhood thing. This is something a whole lot of people need to get over.

I'll try to answer some of your questions....

We are starting a Crew primarily because the boys want to start one...mostly because they want to do some things with just the older boys and they realize they can do more stuff that they want to do, like hand gun shooting and hunting, that they can't do with even a Venture Patrol...They want hunting and shooting to be the activity focus for themselves and to foster youth hunting in the area. These boys "know the deal" they are all seasoned, active as Scouts in the Troop, some have been together since Tiger Cubs, members of the Venture Patrol, will remain active in the Troop, are active in OA (in OA they are or have been Chapter Chief, Vice Chief, Secretary, Lodge Treasurer, Lodge Newletter Chair, Lodge Web Page Chair, Elangomat Chair, Camping Promotions Chair, Conclave Chair, etc.), LLDC staff, NYLT Staff, Cub Scout Day Camp Staff, Boy Scout Summer Camp Staff, etc...and they think the green uniforms are cool...Good, active older Scouts who want to try something different...perfect fit for a Venture Crew from all I have read.

A couple of boys want to join who are older brothers of boys in the Troop that were never in Boy Scouts.

Probably keep it single gender since a co-ed Crew exists 5 miles down the road, the Crew Adviser is the mom of one of the boys in our Troop and we don't want to compete with her Crew for female members...and she has a different activity focus.

Could someone point me in the right direction concerning dual registration policies. I am a Scoutmaster and dual registered in the local pack as a Trainer and now want to spin off a Venture Crew from the Troop...MAY I (setting aside the sanity of doing so) also now register as the Crew Adviser or MUST I register in another position in the Crew, say Committee Chair. I have heard many conflicting answers, including from local professionals...What is the REAL policy and where can I find it written?????

Of all of the threads I have read oh these many years this is in the Top 10 of the most ridiculous...but I'm just an ORC...(Old Retired Colonel)

Trevorum,

Much critical research has been done recently in light of the current unpleasantries. Some say that Mohammed had his first "visitation" from a spirit around 610 AD when he was about 40 years old. In his hometown of Mecca many gods were worshipped...some say as many as 300. His tribe may have worshipped Allah the moon god. He chose Allah to be the "one" god which is why one sees a crescent moon often associated with Muslims. These circumstances and a host of other theological touch points are significantly different than the methods Jehovah chose to reveal himself to mankind.

adc294,

I am a Christian and I will try to answer some of the questions you posed at the beginning of this thread. The quaetions didn't seem to be answered an the topic drifted. I make no assumptions about your personal beliefs.

Will billions and billions suffer for wrong choice...yes...though it is not God's desire for any to suffer. He has told us the way and sent his son to show the way and left evidence in every natural thing we see. So in His mind there will be no excuses accepted at the end.

Will many be surprised...yes.

has God been dictated to us...yes...it's called the Bible...everything you need to know is there.

Will people who don't believe in the God of the Bible enjoy his blessings...simply put, no.

Although you didn't mention this somone did...The God of Judaism and Christianity are the same...the difference is the believe in the Christ, the Messiah. Allah of the Muslims is not the same.

Can I respect someone else's "choice"...yes...God gave us "choice" in our make up...He asks that His creations make the right one...and I'll pray that everone does.

I know it's tough to face and tougher to carry out but I believe in this case I would cut the kid and family loose. I would not put my butt on the line for this kid or accept further resposibility for his actions. You reach a point where the good of the rest of the kids and your own ability to run a safe, efective program has to be considered. Long ago I dropped the idealism that I could fix every problem through Scouting. It is useless to try to change anything in the family as well. You can't fix in an hour a week and one weekend a month what gets screwed up at home the rest of the time.

In my day every boy was in Scouting in the neighborhood...if they weren't or dropped out they were considered weird. Like it or not times have changed and those days are not coming back. As you know, many times now, it is the Boy Scout that is considered weird...until they make Eagle anyway. I have found that the moma's boys don't make good Scouts...cut them loose. The Game Boy/Video Game fanatics don't make good Boy Scouts...cut them loose. The sports fanatics (gotta play every sport year round) don't make good Boy Scouts...cut them loose. You will have some victories. You will get through to some. You will change some...but not all. I want boys who want to be there, who put an effort into Scouting, who like the outdoors, who can develop the mental toughness to endure an active outdoor life, who learn to strive to succeed. Like it or not, and I don't, the fabric of our society has changed. Not every boy will be attracted to Scouting. Not every boy can endure Scouting. Not every boy has the internal fortitude to succeed in Scouting and certainly not every family "gets it" either. I learned long ago in the Army that soldering doesn't fit everyone that signs up...even though they volunteered. You can spend most of your time trying to fix the few, with marginal success, or you can spend most of your time with good to make them better with great success. I choose to put my personal time and effort into those that respond not to those who don't.

There is a key ingredient missing in this discussion that was mentioned by the father on the evening news. He had bet the boy $5.00 that he would have fun on the trip....meaning...he had to bribe the kid to go. So the problem may be the boy's attitude not ADD or some other underlying cause that spooked him. It may be compounded by the homesickness caused by the fact that Dad could not go on the trip...but I've never seen homesickness manifested in wanting to leave the group. All of this was further compounded by the mistakes the unit made...allowing him to sleep in, no 2 deep leadership, no buddy system, the adult that was supposed to watch him was obviously not watching him, etc.

I'm probably out of sync with most. Some have said the boys are busy...so Scouts drops off the plate first. It drops off because there is no incentive or penalty for not coming to a Scout function. There is in every thing else they choose to do. Why not in Scouts? Don't attend sports practice you won't play, etc. Well...don't attend Scout functions and you won't advance...and it is a "spirit" issue in my mind. Guess I'm selfish. I resent being last...being the first thing that drops off the plate every time. I invest more time than any coach and it's higher quality time. If you want my time then I want your time. I don't want Scouts who attend sometimes. I don't like doing back flips for a kid who thinks he can make Eagle with no committment just so he can check the block. I want boys who want to be Scouts. If you have to play sports year round, be involved in every club your school has to offer and go on every event your church has to offer then fine...it's your choice...sounds like you've chosen not to do Scouts. That's ok. Just don't bother me. I am not going to accomodate every boy, especially for numbers. We have an attendance policy of 70% in all categories. We have provisions for an "out" but it's not a "forever out". To date it hasn't been a problem. I have boys who have given up sports practice and games to go on a Scout event....their choice was something like sitting on a bench or sitting in a canoe. I have others who play sports and never miss a Scout event. I have a few who have made it to 1st Class and may be 1st Class when they turn 18 based on the fact that their attendance is very low and Scouts is not a priority to them. Fine...your choice son. It's a matter of choice and priorities. All of this is made clear to the boys and their parents up front...along with the meeting times and places of other Troops in the area who may better fit their notion of "active". Results? District Troop of the Year for 2006, resident OA Chapter Chief, Lodge Webmaster, Lodge Camping Promotions Chair, Lodge Elangomat Chair, Lodge Treasurer, average of 70% attendance rate on monthly outings, etc.

Thanks for your concerns. I will pass them on. These boys and adult leader were in Troop 17 in Franklin, VA. It is hitting all of us hard. Though we are in a different District we are "next door" and have attended camporees with them and are in the same OA lodge with them. The Scoutmaster, who was not on the trip, is a classmate of mine from VMI. The woman who was driving ahead of the vehicle that had the accident and was leading them home is in my Woodbadge patrol. This particular weekend Troop 17 was camping with my Troop (36 in Carrollton, VA)and Troop 5 from Suffolk, VA at the annual Blackstone Boy Scout retreat which is hosted by the United Methodist Men and is attended by troops from all over Virginia and a few from out of state. Over 900 boys in attendance last weekend. We had great fun with three Troops, 80 boys and adults, cooking, eating, camping, earning merit badges and sitting around the fire together all in one huge camp site. Please pray for safe journeys for all Scouts and Scouters who are travelling all over this great country every weekend of the year.

Dan Williamson

Scoutmaster

Troop 36

Carrollton, VA

There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. We prefer to keep Scouts together by age for their entire time as Scouts. Older boys don't want to always mix with younger and vice versa. Interests are too different as the age differential increases. Older Scouts don't mind teaching and helping and watching out for younger Scouts but they all prefer to camp, cook, etc. by age groups. Most of the boys go to school together and have known each other all their lives. Mixing, especially if redone annually, for example, causes a lot of unnecessary turmoil. We also have six sets of brothers and keeping them separated by age has definite advantages. Either way can be made to work, we just prefer segregation by age.

Just got back from the Jamboree and although work got in the way I still had time to read this post. Some misinformation I would like to squash...The Army was not recruiting. No 17 year old boys were asked to sign anything. I am retired Army, still work for the Army and knew some of the soldiers and commanders who were detailed for the Jamboree. We talked of this very issue and they were specifically not doing anything that could be misconstrued as recruiting because they knew the rumors would fly...as they apparently are anyway. They did however present a professional, enthusiastic demeanor to the boys and had outstanding exhibits and fun things to do and if some of that gets a kid interested in the military then so be it. It's a great profession and a great way of life. Is there potential danger? Yes. But many professions have potential danger. Setting up dining flys can be dangerous. Further, the Army and DoD don't support the Boy Scouts just because they have a potential recruiting pool or because it's good for training. Title X (Ten) US Code directs executive agency for supporting Boy Scouts to the Department of Defense and DoD has delegated that duty to the US Army. So regardless of what the ACLU and other detractors say, it's law. Until the law is changed I believe the Army will support Scouting and AP Hill will be the place. Last weeks legislation, if it stands, will reinforce the link not break it.

333, Nansemond Chapter. 3 put on a great Conclave at Camp Brady Saunders a couple of weeks ago.

Take the boys camping. Our troop is bordering on hyper-active. A troop event every month plus 6 OA events every year, summer camp and just starting a Venture Patrol. OA is great to keep older boys interested. Other troops in our area are not as active. They have fewer boys and recruiting and retention troubles. I reckon I'm in competition with the sports teams and other extra curricular activities and I know that what Scouting offers is better than anything else out there. Sports teams have practice every week and game on Saturday. I can do that. Takes lots of adult help. I got that.

Military lensatic. Military surplus stores in our area sell knockoff brands at reasonable prices. They can be used for everything including orientindg a map. All others that I have seen my boys bring camping and use are not durable and an azimuth shot with one is only mildly interesting not precise.

SR540Beaver,

I can see your points. I just passionately believe that Scouting is the absolute best program for boys and nothing else even comes close as a total package for their development. While I agree that Scouting is not all there is to growing up it was, in my personal case, one of the most important defining programs that set my azimuths and attitudes as I progressed into manhood. I try to convey that fact to my boys.

SR540Beaver,

I don't disagree with much that you said. However, sometimes I find that I have to include the parents in the "talks". That usually works well. If the parents are fighting against you though, not enforcing standards at home and the kid is a discipline problem then you should probably let them all go. But, I find that, usually, normally, kinda-sorta-always, a boy that started off liking Scouts and is essentially a good kid, can be brought back from the brink. A trick I have tried in a couple of cases that worked is to put the boy in charge of something vital to the Troop. It was risky but in both cases the "light came on" when they were given more responsibility.

I think we do disagree, however, in some fundamental approaches. While you believe that forcing a kid to do something he doesn't want to do is negative teaching and only proving that mom and dad can force him to do something, I say, exactly the point. Assuming, based on my experience, that I know what's best for the boy I view it as my job as a parent to, if necessary, force him to do things he may not want to do. I may have to force him to go to school, I may have to force him to do his homework, I may have to force him to change his attitude, clean his room, do his chores, etc. In the big bad world the young man, if he is to be a functioning member of society, will often have to do things he doesn't want to do. He will have to pay taxes, he may have to follow a businesses dress code, he may have to conform and perform to certain expectations or standards, he will have to obey societies laws and norms and have respect for authority or pay the consequences. One of the posts here says their kid is dressing in "all black" and it's a "phase". That is strange to me. I set the dress standard in my house, not the kid. I buy the clothes, not the kid. I decide what's best for my kid not the other way around. My pressure is far greater than "peer" pressure. It's my job as a parent. Better to learn all of this now.