AnnLaurelB

"... I refuse to edit my life based on the possibility that someone, somewhere, might judge me wanting based on rules I don't even see as relevant."

That's pretty much how I feel. Of course, if *the worst* happens, and I end up living a nightmare, I might change that tune, so I understand the concern.

I try to make sensible decisions, but I decline to live my life in fear.

Heh. That one was my signature on my emails for a long time.

Classic! :0) And a good last word for a Cub meeting!

Awesome!!

I just didn't want to see it go to waste! :0)

YES! Hahahahahah!

Yeah, it probably will go over better with adults. :0)

PLEASE TELL ME SOMEONE HAS A PACK MEETING TONIGHT!

You need to say, "May the 4th be with you."

!!!

I NEED someone to do this; we don't have any meetings tonight.

Thanks;

For myself, I wasn't going to worry too much about it. At most, if I had a little shindig and invited the other Wolves, I might have a Spanish-speaking parent ask if their son should wear his uniform. *IF* that happened, I'd just say, "Oh, it's not Cub Scouts."

I just thought it was interesting how the person I'd talked to had made that interpretation of YP, where it had never occurred to me.

Good discussion thread; thanks!

In that line, we could have a "GOTCHA!" Badge. For those leaders who most often can get the boys eyes to go big, and they say, "Really?!?"

No, not really. BAHahahahahah! Gotcha.

*sigh* What your comments all tell me is that the problem is when certain lines are clear to Person A, but that same line appears blurry to Person B.

I suppose that's why we have lawyers. Ugh.

I'm a first-year CM after spending a year as my son's Tiger DL.

We're so small, that for these 2 years, it hasn't really cost that much--dues pretty much have covered the Beltloops, at $1.00 per week per boy.

But I was mining information from a CC in another Pack the other day, and she said that their Pack pays for ALL Beltloops (and they're a HUGE Pack with 110 boys, although 32 are aging out this month).

I asked how they did that. She said that they charge UP FRONT for *everything* they think Scouting will cost the kid for the year. They *include* about a Beltloop per month in that figure.

She also reminded me that all parts of a Cubbie's life CAN be counted as activities that earn Beltloops!

Now, you have some Dens which will order up to 8-10 Beltloops at a time for Den activities (I'm also my son's Wolf DL, and I BELIEVE IN BLING!) but my 6 little guys bring in $24 a month in dues. If we earn a Beltloop per month, that cost is less than $12.

Now, we earned our Pet Care Beltloops in ONE Den meeting in my backyard. They each brought a live pet, OR a poster about a pet they'd LIKE to have, and told us about the pet, it's origins, it's habits, and it's care. Beltloop EARNED, totally.

But I had one boy not show up to that because of baseball. He didn't want to bring a poster later, so he's simply not getting that Beltloop. He also didn't come to our fishing outing, so he's not getting THAT Beltloop, either. That's his choice.

My son happened to spend an entire day taking photos with my digital camera, uploading them, playing with the editing, asking me how the zoom worked, etc... and he printed out several pics of our last Den meeting to show to the guys. I awarded him a Photography Beltloop for his zeal.

Another boy played Upward Basketball, and told us about how he'd learned the rules and skills of the game; I gave him a Basketball Beltloop for that.

But those were off-set by the other boy's absences. Now, he may come back and earn something else, but I think it all comes out evenly in the end, if you're collecting dues. I thought that's what the dues were FOR, in large part.

Wouldn't it be simple enough to say to the mom, "Our YP guidelines prevent a registered BSA leader from being responsible for getting your son to and from events, but I'm sure some of the other parents would be glad to help you out," ?

The statement about the guidelines is as interpreted by the CM's comfort level.

If the CM (or CC or whomever) gets a call like this, it's THEIR comfort level (or that of the CO's policies) that determines whether the person taking the phone call can say, "SURE! I'll come get him!" vs. "Here's a parent roster. You're welcome to arrange a ride with another parent."

Does anyone else hear SP's "Hello Scoutfish" in Jerry Seinfeld's voice? "Hello...NEWMAN." Sorry. Maybe my overactive imagination at play.

"If mom asks her neighbor - who also has a son who is a scout at the pack - to give her son a ride...I cannot prevent, stop, okay, or do anything about it..."

I have to say I agree, here. I think the DIFFERENCE is whether a Scout Leader is BROKERING the ride FOR the kid with ANOTHER registered leader. In THAT case, in a worst case scenario, MAYBE the Leader making the phone call *might* be implicated.

But if you just ask the kid's DL to mention to the parents that the mom can't drive, OR if you give the MOM a list of the phone numbers of the kids in the Den, and she asks them herself, then it's between those 2 parents.

We did that a few weeks ago, in fact. We had a den meeting, and "LOUIS' BIRTHDAY!" It was awesome! :0)

My son's birthday weekend happens to fall when I wanted a kick-off party, and he wants to hold it at the swimming hole this year (*mental note to make pavillion reservation now*). Sounds like a great combo to me!

(*another mental note to get my safe scouting watery whatever it is*)

We're camping the first weekend in June, Day Camp is the only "official" thing, then we have something about every 2 weeks, but they're all stuff that's happening anyway:

Kids' Fishing Day at local fairgrounds

Local Festival

Concert in the Park

Local waterpark ($5 admission--it's tiny)

Oh, wait. I did schedule a "Camp IN" at the CO to break in anyone who's fearful of camping. But the church families would also be invited to pitch a tent with us.

Then a back to school event (also my son's birthday!) at a local swimming hole.

All totally optional, but a chance for the families and Cubbies to keep connected every couple of weeks. :0)

That's almost comical!! Now, I *might* remind a recalcitrant Cubbie who's visiting my home that he needs to behave like a good Scout...but I would NEVER call out Scouting terms at a non-Scout event.

That's just ... annoying.

Thank you; that's what I thought. If my son couldn't HANG OUT with other boys from Cub Scouting just because I'm a leader, then a huge part of the POINT would be lost.

I'm not going to worry about it again. :0)

In a conversation with the CC of another Pack today, we talked about things like birthday parties. I was told to be careful about inviting Cub Scouts to things like my son's birthday party. Um...isn't the POINT of Cub Scouts so that the boys have PALS?!?

But her point was that if the kid falls out of my tree or something, that the parent will see it as a Cub Scout event, and try to sue the CO. And if MY insurance knows it was a Cub Scout kid, they might see it as a Cub Scout event, and deny me coverage. But Cub Scouts would see it as a private event, and I'm screwed.

She also said that my son shouldn't have Cub Scout pals spend the night at my house (even if he already knew them from Kindergarten) because of the same issue. If an allergic kid snarfs some peanut butter, or WORSE claims something inappropriate happened, I'm in the same predicament.

Is this really a risk?!? I have to admit that I'm stunned at the whole thought. So just because I'm a Scout leader, my kid can't have private friendships with anyone IN the Pack? That's...absurd. And, if Packs follow the model that nearly every parent should BE a registered leader, that precludes ANY kid from spending the night at ANY OTHER kid's house, if they're in Cubs together.

HUH?!?

GREAT topic! And a tough one.

I have to agree that if the kid is IN a Den, and part of the Cub Promise is "help other people", it stands to reason that if the DL makes it known that the mom-son team needs some help, that they could do that amongst themselves, because it is the right thing to do.

Could the DL maybe have a DEN meeting AT the boy's HOUSE sometime, so the mom could meet the other parents? Sounds like SHE could use some friends, too! And if other PARENTS volunteer to drive Johnny, and she accepts, without prompting from any Scout leader, then YP is not violated (imho), since Wolfs-Webs can be dropped off, anyway.

I think since the Pack's only been back in action for two years, the issues aren't at the forefront. And I think people see us at the Library or whatever and just think, "Oh, how cute." It IS a small town, but I think Cub Scouts is under the radar for people who aren't already in it; I'm not sure. But yeah, if you *described* the current dynamics to a prospective Cubbie, who'd volunteer for that?!?

I contacted the only other Mommy-Leader I know of, knowing only that she volunteers on the District level as an event coordinator. I didn't know her position within her son' Pack. Turns out she's the CC. She said, "What did you want to ask me about? Your email sounded sort of grim."

I said, "Do you have room for 6 Bears, if I need to find them a new Pack?"

She was quiet a second, and said, "Are we clear that YOU asked ME that, and NOT the other way around?" I told her yes, I'm asking if my son's Den becomes homeless *for whatever reason*, will they take the transfers. She said, "WELL, YEAH!" (I guess she doesn't want to be guilty of poaching--understandable).

We talked for a VERY long time, and she pointed out several things I hadn't been aware of (she's very procedurally oriented), and she pretty much backed up everything you all have said here (not that I doubted one scrap of it, but it was nice to hear it from someone I know, and who knows Ex-CM dude and all we've been through).

You know one thing she pointed out was that the DE's plan of going ahead with the recruiting night, THEN gathering all the parents and giving them an ultimatum really isn't fair. We did talk about what someone here suggested -- they don't leave the table until they have an adult registered -- but if that doesn't work, it's hard to take KID sign ups if you KNOW there aren't enough adults to lead them.

So I don't know if I'm comfortable going ahead with the recruiting night unless I know what this Pack has to offer -- and from what I heard out of the old guys on Thursday night, I'm already getting all I'm going to out of them.

The Troop question is a very good one!! Her Pack, for example, currently has 110 boys. They have a very active Troop; their Pack has 110 boys right now. They're pretty vital at both ends. So as far as that goes, it's a good choice. There ARE other Packs around here, who meet closer to my home, but they're the biggest. I may call around and chat with some CMs before I decide for sure.

I think it's a really good point that this is supposed to be fun (for both of us), and the years are short. Do I really want to spend them slaving to try to resuscitate a gasping program? It's hard to give up control, but my son has kind of gotten the short end of the stick in a lot of other areas of his life. Cub Scouts shouldn't be one of them, if it can be helped.

My talk with the CC of the other Pack ended with A LOT of new information and things for me to think about, but the bottom line is that when I talk to the pastor, he needs to be made to understand that the Chartering Organization is in charge of staffing this turkey, not me. It's THEIR responsibility to get the bodies, not mine. And if they can't do that, up to and including finding a RESPONSIBLE AND RELIABLE Committee Chair, then I'm not comfortable being CM.

So... I'm waiting for him to call me back. It's a formality, really. He can't deliver. But I'll follow protocol and give the CO the opportunity to cough up their end of the deal.

@ LisaBob -- Thanks; as a matter of fact, I started crafting a note last night to the DE and my UC, explaining that I understand the issue of "having to name somebody," (reference the "keep the Pack alive" pressure), but that as a PARENT, I am simply not comfortable with him steering the boat.

Add to that the fact that I find him personally difficult to work with, and I'm just not sure I can do it.

One of the lines that keeps coming up at Committee meetings (from the Old Ghosts) is, "Well, sure, that's how THEY say it SHOULD be done, but in a small Pack, it has to be done differently." (Translation: Yes, it's the COR's job to GET the help...but, we're delegating that to YOU. Go forth."

The COR is the guy who WON'T show up to meetings, and is the "ghostiest" of them all. BUT! As you point out, his name is on the Charter in that position of responsibility, not mine, as COR, so if I tell him I'm walking if the nutty guy is Chair, then it's not my call what he chooses to do about it.

It is nuts. And I think you're right about taking the stand.

Oh! OH!!! The pastor just texted me; he was in on the counselling that took place when they removed the nutty guy as CM. He wants to talk to me about the Committee. Ooooh! The PLOT THICKENS!!! Stay tuned, race fans!

@ ScoutNut -- He was inebriated at several Pack events, and brought alcohol (and used it) on a camp out. If that SHOULD be cause for losing his registration, then I can't explain why he didn't. He also appears to mix pain killers with his drinking. The DE *is* aware of why the parents asked the Committee that he not be CM.

@ MooseTracker -- I hear what you're saying; they (they WHOM, though? There are NO hands on deck!) may decide to give it a go, even if I walk away. I'm not saying that my walking away would disband the Pack, but the ONLY person left would be the dysfunctional (hey, nice enough guy, but dysfunctional on so many levels) former CM/now CC.

And my Wolfies are 6/11ths of the Pack (after my Web2s age out next month, and before recruiting). I daresay they'd likely follow me, if I said I was going to be a Bear leader elsewhere. Perhaps not, but I'm fairly confident of that.

They wouldn't HAVE a Pack if I go; it's that simple. I don't say that with any snark, that's just the simple truth of it (as the situation stands NOW, that is).

@ Qwazse -- No, after our May Pack meeting, we have no "official" gatherings. There's a concert in the park across the street from my house; I said, "Come picnic!" I'll be on vacay near a water park in July; I said, "We'll be there that Saturday if anyone wants to come there." Etc... I just made a summer calendar of things that I'll happen to be doing, anyway. No Pack business until late Aug/early Sep.

I'm sorry; I don't mean to be high-maintenance or panic-driven...I tend to ...think out loud. I'm going to call this other female Cubmaster and pick her brain a little bit, and see what insights she may have.

Again, THANK YOU all for your time and care. I really appreciate all of the good words!!

BWAHahahahah! Ben Stein! Love.

These are great!

The Dennis the Menace Badge for the DL with the craziest Cubs.

P.S.

THANK YOU to everyone for your time and insights and encouragement!! I appreciate it sooo much! :0)

I need a break from the drama and seriousness!

"MooseTracker"'s moniker made me think, "Wouldn't it be fun if there was a 'Moose' Badge?" I want a Moose Badge. But what would the Moose Badge be for?

So here's the assignment: A fun or silly Badge Title, and what you earn it for (as Adult Scout Leaders). Ready, set, GO!

OMIGOSH. Where's the button?!? *Fantastic* ideas.

But THAT being said...

I'm on the balls of my feet with my keys in my hand...just trying to decide whether to cut now before it gets any messier, or give the ultimatum and see what happens.

But see, that means waiting until Kick-Off / Orientation NEXT season, in late Aug or early Sep. That's a long time to NOT KNOW, and then walk away and find my new Pack *after* the year has already begun, if it doesn't pan out.

Hmmmmn...

You know, for the first 3 months of my reign (Heh) as CM, we did EXACTLY that--we met all as a Pack. The advice I kept getting at the time was that we needed to break into the Dens as soon as possible.

But...why? The model DID work, and y'all are right-- everyone would be in the same room, and I can point at the parents and say, "Um...I'm only one person. There are 5 Dens. Who's leading this group tonight?"

The *problem* with that was that if *I* spoonfeed them with a joint Den meeting EVERY week, what impetus is there for them TO step up? "Well, she's got that handled."

But if I decide to stay, I think an amalgam of these suggestions is the key. Have several joint Den meetings, (and any Bobcat Trails can be done then, too), and then have a Summit Pack meeting when all the parents are there.

Explain that we need 11 (or whatever) volunteers; who's standing? And if they don't, I'll have a stack of BSA Youth applications and a list of local Packs to which they can apply for transfer.

Well, I just meant that I'd *like* it if my son had a MALE Den leader. I'm more than happy to be Asst DL or even vice-versa. But my whole goal in having the boy in Scouting was for him to have male role models.

That's not a deal-breaker at all, though, and if most of the boys from the Den wanted to transfer with me, and a Pack would take us as a whole Den, then I'd be happy to do it.

I would have a harder time seeing the tipping point (trying to be *determined* to make it work) if they hadn't appointed the deposed CM to be CC last night. That REALLY tipped the scales for me.

And I did NOT consider the point that, if our own Den is all kids around HERE, then we could continue to meet in my backyard for Den stuff. THAT is something to consider!! :0)

(*scurries off to google the driving distances to other Packs*)