AnneinMpls

Kudu, thank you for that very detailed explanation - I had not known that "patrol method" was such a departure.

GSUSA has used the term "patrol system" to describe its form of troop government at least since 1947.

Let me get my older handbooks, and go over it a bit..

First, from my facsimile copy of How Girls Can Help Their Country, p. 120 under "Power of Captains" (Captains were our equivalent of troop leaders, adults over the age of 21.)

"A captain appoints her own lieutenants and patrol leaders for one year, when she can either reappoint them or substitute others. She can at any time reduce a patrol leader to corporal or to Scout. Captains have a free hand in all interior administration."

p.121: "A patrol leader is a Scout appointed by a captain (or by vote of the patrol when no captain exists) to command a patrol for one year and should be over fifteen."

When our organization was new, girls could form up patrols on their own, acquire books and supplies and carry on scouting until such time as an adult took an interest, or more than one patrol gathered together into a company, thus requiring a captain.

The next handbook published was in 1920, Scouting for Girls

On p.13 Organization of the Girl Scouts:

Patrol. But the ideal unit and the keystone of the organization is the Patrol, consisting of eight girls who would naturally be associated as friends, neighbors, school fellows or playmates. They are a self selected and, under the regulations and customs of the organization, a self governing little body, who learn, through practical experiment, how to translate into democratic team-play, their recreation, patriotic or community work, camp life and athletics. Definite mastery of the various subjects they select to study is made more interesting by healthy competition and mutual observation.

Patrol leader. Each patrol elects from its members a patrol leader, who represents them and is to a certain extent responsible for the discipline and dignity of the patrol.

Corporal. The patrol leader is assisted by her corporal, who may be either elected or appointed; and as she is subject to re-election at regular intervals, the office is a practical symbol of the democratic basis of our American government and a constant demonstration of it.

(Interestingly, this edition of the handbook describes the Pine Tree Patrol System on p.325, based on the book The Pine Tree Patrol a BSA publication. See http://www.netwoods.com/d-equipment.html for more info. The Pine Tree Patrol System is a fairly cumbersome way of dividing up duties in camp thank goodness we came up with kaper charts! The 1920 handbook is especially amusing for drawing little skirts on the stick figures of the members of the Pine Tree Patrol, and describing how the Senior and Junior serve the inner and outer needs of man! Dear dear...)

I do not have copies of some intervening handbooks in the 30s and early 40s. My next handbook dates from 1947: Girl Scout Handbook: Intermediate Program

Chapter 2, Your Troop and How it Works

First section: The Town Meeting, describes this system of govt. for smaller troops, and also for less experienced troops, outlining how the troop progresses form being led directly by the troop leader to electing its own officers.

The next section: The Patrol System and the rest of the chapter explains the patrol system in more detail, outlining responsibilities of patrol leaders, asst. patrol leaders, Court of Honor, Troop Scribe, and troop treasurer.

Obviously, there were great developments between 1920 and 1947!

So, when we're discussing the use of the Patrol System in Girl Scouting, it is to be assumed that we are using the term Patrol System as it is used within Girl Scouting

Hope this helps!

Anne in Mpls

Thanks so much

Yes, I think I'm pursuing the square peg round hole idea without timing.

Anne in Mpls

SSscout, let me help clear things up for you

First off, there is no such thing as GSA. We are Gir lScouts of the USA, or abbreviated GSUSA. Our headquarters are in NYC.

Secondly, the "traditional" GSUSA model is the patrol system. Reference any GSUSA handbook from 1912 up to the present, and, although the information has become scant, it is still in our present-day handbooks.

Historically, GS troops were large enough to fully implement the patrol system. Numbers declined, leaders began leading only single-grade level troops, troop size declined, so GSUSA now also advocates two other troop government models: the town meeting, and the steering committee or executive board. See http://www.geocities.com/heartland/Pointe/9385/govt.htm for a pretty good overview.

Hope this helps!

Anne in Mpls

Thanks everyone Now we're cooking with gas! No wait..that's a different station

I'm thinking there's something I can pick up at home depot that will make the square peg round hole game easy to set up.

Ooh...just got an idea to fit our emeergency preparedness theme...the sticks need to be whittled to fit the gaps in the vent! Chemical attack! Could use dry ice for the "smoke" coming through the holes..

The fuzz stick relay too is looking easier to manage safely, with penalties for removed shavings (which would encourage careful cutting) and for *blood*

(And, oops! I did just purchase the troop program resources too!)

Peace,

Anne in Mpls

Yha, I think this just might be a case of once again our council gets in the way of actually playing the game of Scouting.

*If* we only did it as a day trip, I wouldn't need to file anything at all. But, we're making it an overnight in order to use up some soon to expire cookie credits and therefore need to file with council.

I think we'll just submit the overnight paperwork without the horse rescue visit, cause we're also planning a cave tour in the area that same weekend.

Anne grumbling in Minneapolis

My apologies Bob White! I've been all over the internet lately gleaning what I can from where I can.

That particular game came from http://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/game/game-411.asp which is *not* an official BSA site.

SSScout, thanks so much! Yes, you and I have achieved an understanding Indiana Jackie indeed

G'mornin!

Allscouting, how do you handle finances, being dual registered in GSUSA and BSA with their very different policies on troop/crew finance?

Thanks!

Anne in Mpls

Hi again Cheerful Eagle!

I visited the horse rescue in our area today - council said I needed to do a walk-through myself before bringing the troop, and they are also requesting that they fax their cert. of liability insurance to them. Just curious - did your council request this too?

I hate it when council puts me in the position of being a pain in the neck. I mean, I get where they're coming from, but we won't be riding, and we should be covered by GSUSA's insurance anyway. Just a little frustrating. Especially when the horse rescue says they've had Girl Scouts volunteer before and they didn't have to do all this stuff...drat. I'm trying to put it in terms of, if we do this stuff that council is asking for, we'll be able to leverage more volunteers etc.

Peace!

Anne in Mpls

Hi again Cheerful Eagle!

I visited the horse rescue in our area today - council said I needed to do a walk-through myself before bringing the troop, and they are also requesting that they fax their cert. of liability insurance to them. Just curious - did your council request this too?

I hate it when council puts me in the position of being a pain in the neck. I mean, I get where they're coming from, but we won't be riding, and we should be covered by GSUSA's insurance anyway. Just a little frustrating. Especially when the horse rescue says they've had Girl Scouts volunteer before and they didn't have to do all this stuff...drat. I'm trying to put it in terms of, if we do this stuff that council is asking for, we'll be able to leverage more volunteers etc.

Peace!

Anne in Mpls

Thanks guys for your help

(I'm sure I'm not the only Girl Scout on here giggling at the thought of needing the Boy Scouts to show us how to use knives safely though! But, really, thanks - I know it was offered in a generous spirit

I know sometimes print does a poor job of conveying what one is trying very hard to communicate so bear with me while I try again

We're putting on a wide game, an event held outdoors in which the whole of it put together is the game - we're still in the planning stages so we are in need of an overall creative theme. From there we'll flesh out what is to happen at the various stations that groups will travel to: perhaps the folks leading that station will begin with a skit or dramatization of a scenario. Perhaps there will be skill instruction. Perhaps there will be a riddle to solve, etc. Each success leads the group on to the next station... (As a simple and probably bad example, back when I was a little bitty Brownie, a Junior troop put on a wide game for our bridging, in which each station was a character from the Wizard of Oz.) One of my older GSUSA games books has an example of a wide game called Exploring Planet X. There is a winter game suggested by the theme Serum to Nome - remember sled dogs and dyptheria?

I've taught knife safety to girls and adults, including safety circles, maintenance, how sharpening works with the bevel of the blade, etc., and how to handle them, pass them safely, what not to do and so forth

What I'm looking for are ideas that would move the plot of the game forward - and yes, I definitely agree that any mini-game that would encourage a rush to whittle/slice/chop or what have you would be the wrong way to go

The relay idea actually came from a BSA publication

The players one at a time would go to a point 10-20 feet away, perhaps do 5 curls on a fuzz stick, go back to tag the next...

So, I guess I'm looking for a couple different things: A. simple ideas of beginning knife work, unless fuzz sticks are the only way to go (soap carving is dicey itself unless you do the plastic knife thing...) B. I'm looking for that creative spark of how taking a knife to something could be worked into the larger theme...Law & Order has autopsies...no no no, that's not where I'm going! Gilligan's Island has...poisonous killer vines to be hacked? Fruit to be harvested?? People, work with me! Perhaps just learning the safety stuff itself could be worked into the theme - maybe a Kim's game of what's wrong with this picture...a large poster showing a camp scene with many different unsafe things happening.

Hope that makes it a little clearer

Anne in Mpls

Hi folks!

(I think I've finally figured it out - what we in Girl Scouts call a "wide game", y'all often call just a plain old "camporee"!)

So, anyhoo...

I'm looking for ideas for how to work jackknives into a wide game that we are planning for April. We're expecting 150 girls, so we'll either run the game twice, for 75 in the morning, and 75 in the pm, or have rather large groups of 10-15 rotating.

I'm planning two different stations around this - one doing basic safety using the folding tagboard model knives, and real knives at the next station. So far the best thing I can come up with are fuzz sticks, perhaps done as a relay? Or fuzzsticks as the required "gift" to recieve the clue to the next station (we'll be doing firebuilding too, so logically that could work.)

(Yes, this is the same event I wrote about before with the emergency preparedness theme - ages from 6-15 expected to participate.)

Any ideas for interesting backstory/game plot? For knots, we're doing the "Rescue Barbie and/or stuffed animal from the cliff"...I need creativity!

(These are also adults who don't want girls around trees knives or fire...lord help me Part of me, the eveil part, is saying, well, we'll just do a station where you use knives to make sparks to set trees on fire! No, no no no.

Help me, please!

Anne in Mpls

Good morning!

Every so often I'll try to reactivate this thread - sometimes GS topics go silent. Just remember, if you're looking for a place to talk GS, this forum is always here! To find it, just click on "Forums" then scroll waaaay down the page, and click on Girl Scouts. Now, the next screen might not show much! You'll need to select "show all topics" and you'll see that we do indeed disucss many things! Go ahead and reply to something, or start a new topic! We'll be glad to hear from you!!

Currently, still leading a combined Jr-Cadette troop. I lost one girl to venturing this year but she was more than a year older than the other girls in the troop.

I'm now an active outdoor trainer for our council, which is a whole nother story

Peace!

Anne in Mpls

Some more ideas:

1. developing a troop annual calendar: include SU events, have all school schedules on hand

2. Brainstorming: use badge topics as a jumping off point for coming up with challenging program ideas then flesh it out by deleoping plans that allow progression in skill

3. Get outside and get active: girls who are more physically active will be more able to show initiative and more exposure to what's out there will give them more to draw from when triyng to come up with ideas of things to do

4. ideas for leader-initiated activities to "prime the pump": go on a short hike, have a cook-out, volunteer at a community event, or visit a nature center - each of these lends itself to saying - what could we do next? A longer hike, learn more ways to cook outdoors, explore another natural area or another way to give service. Bring in copies of community newspapers - show them where they can get ideas: turn to the community calendar page, visit websites - give them the tools.

Good morning folks!

I posted my version of a patrol leader manual to a couple folks on here - email me at avarberg@yahoo.com if you would like it also.

I thought now would be a good time to talk about more of the "how to do it" - how do we use the patrol system to move a troop towards more girl planning? Every trained GS leader has probably seen that graph - the Girl/Adult Partnership. On the other hand, current GS training is light on the actual practicalities of how to make this happen! So let's talk about that

I always gotta start from troop size - tiny troops will almost always be entirely adult-directed - this has happened in my own troop! increasing the number of girls allows more space between patrols and the troop leader - space in which they can "talk amongst themselves". so recruiting will need to be ongoing until you're up to around 21 (21 allows for 3 or 4 good-sized patrols)

Meanwhile...how do you use your patrol leaders during the time you're trying to build the troop to full strength?

Thanks everyone for your input!

I'm kinda in a bad place because I have to obtain buy-in from a bunch of adult leaders who think I'm a nutjob because I let girls light fires and climb trees.

Hmmm, think I need to have two more stations: one on lighting fires and one on tree climbing

bwahahahaha.

Anne, instigating stuff in Mpls

http://www.ssrguides.org/resources.php?sub=tdceremony

More info found here about why we call it "Thinking Day"

It's traditional to get up before dawn and hike to a high place where you can see the sunrise and take part in "The Great Think", thinking thoughts of friendship for scouts and guides around the world. I keep telling myself I'm going to revive this tradition - NEXT YEAR, really, I will. But it will have to be on the closest Saturday because my work day starts before dawn!

Peace to you and yours!

Anne in Mpls

Oh dear - I had a very lengthy reply to you privately all set to go and then my flaky internet connection dropped and I lost the whole thing.

Email me at avarberg@yahoo.com and I will send more details! At least in my own email program, if the connection drops I have a draft!

Peace!

Anne in Mpls

Regarding your question, do patrol leaders meet separately?

Yes, they should - the traditional term for the patrol leader meeting in GSUSA is the "Court of Honor" (yha, I know...)

Originally, patrol leaders were appointed, and any misbehavior of scouts was handled by the Court of Honor - the patrol leaders when assembled had authority to impose punishments, etc. Obviously, this has changed over time

Generally, whenever we elect patrol leaders, I schedule a patrol leader training (my dining room table - I serve tea) and I have patrol leader manuals that I've made up - I've photocopied pages from old GS handbooks and publications now out of print: you can look for these on EBay. The oldest GSUSA publication I've come across is called "Patrols and Their Court of Honor".

We spend most of the time going through the out of print Patrol Leader's Handbook - try very hard to get your hands on this. It has an awesome picutre depicting the Troop Leader *gazing out the window or looking at the sky* because the patrol system is functioning properly I tell them their job is to make me really bored

We go over how to make kaper charts - assigning tasks using the buddy system, meal plans for overnights, and we go over how to help new girls earn their first badges - I give this responsibility to the patrol leaders - this was traditional back in the day and it's a good one! We use the Girl Scouting in the USA badge as sortof our tenderfoot rank. Patrol leaders have a page on it in the patrol leader manual I put together. Also order for flag ceremonies is in there.

I would love to refine this and make it available but of course there are copyright issues to doing so! Currently I'm operating under the principle of using extracts of material for educational purposes and not for sale.

Hope this helps!

Anne in Mpls

Good morning!

Our troop will be designing a wide game (this term is used to mean many different things - I'm talking about the sort of game where patrol sized groups travel from one point to another along varying routes to perform various activities that may or may not be scored) and our theme (so far) is "Be Prepared".

Ok, the theme needs work, of course. The rough idea is a set of stations where they will learn and practice skills for meeting plausible emergencies: simple first aid, pandemic, evacuation, sheltering from weather emergencies, etc. Maybe use the Red Cross "Get Ready" three steps and build theme around that?

Points awarded for knowing own contact information (because we'll have many younger participants)

Weather emergencies

Pandemic

Civil emergencies

Groups will be composed of ages 6-15ish and we're expecting up to 150 participants. The number of participants looks difficult to manage: that would make for 15 patrols if we made them as large as 10 persons. Is this size group too large to work effectively?

Some ideas I have so far:

Care for injured members: assisted walking, improvised stretchers, drag sealed envelope: youngest patrol member has a broken or sprained ankle for the duration of the game and must be assisted to travel from station to station (allowed normal participation during the stations?)

group will periodically report progress via 2-way radios (practice use of emergency communications)

increase the number of stations by including a couple stations "just for fun" - simple stunts & quick games

Map reading

Knot tying

Plant identification

Flag etiquette

Fire safety

Compass directions and pacing

Lashing

Ok, this is really very rough - we're just in the brain-storming stage now. I've gleaned just about everything I can from the web - including the PDF at classB.com which is great. Just looking for anyone here that has more advice to offer!

One question...should the stations be timed or untimed? I think it lends more to "the game" if patrols progress naturally through the course as challenges are met, and may mean letting others "play through". Maybe a time limit so a group doesn't get terribly bogged down?

The adult leaders are enormously concerned about schedules. gah. They'd like things to run like a schoolday. Part of the real fun of a wide game is the challenge in following clues or trails or maps to get from one place to another. How do we break through this mindset? Help!

Anne in Mpls

I too send my greetings out for World Thinking Day 2008!

This weekend is the official weekend for TDOTI - Thinking Day on the Internet. We'll be at the library tomorrow morning to help girls get online to chat with Girl Scouts and Girl Guides around the world.

Here's some info so you can join us!

See http://www.scoutlink.net/ for much more info.

http://www.girlscouts.org/internet_safety_pledge.asp is the internet safety pledge that girls should discuss and sign before participating. You might choose to include this on your permission slips. Same thing also at GoGirlsOnly http://www..gogirlsonly.org/internet_safety_pledge.asp

And for Juniors, take a look at this badge: http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/insignia/online/junior/cybergirl_scout.asp

TDOTI - Thinking Day On The Internet

Next Dates: February 23-24, 2008

Thinking Day On The Internet is an event similar to JOTI. It is held in annually on/around World Thinking Day. It is an opportunity for Girl Scouts & Girl Guides worldwide to chat, share ideas and stories and to gain a better understanding of Girl Scouts & Girl Guides in other states, countries and regions. On ScoutLink, chat occurs mainly in #trefoil.

World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts

ScoutLink IRC Network : #trefoil

Oh for cool

You might take a look at the "Get With the Land" program. http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/insignia/online/participation_patches/getwithland/ is the link to it. BLM fits right in there. You're already earning Horse Fan, Horse Rider, and for the ones who are bridging, possibly the Horse Sense IPA, right? All of these have a horse breed activity.

Blue skies!

Anne in Mpls

Hiya Cheerful Eagle!

My best advice to you would be to fully utilize the full GSUSA program to the max: take advantage of your council's camps, and as your girls get old enough, do the whole tripping and travelling thing. Check out Destinations but also look at hostelling.

Encourage girl-planning: really make this happen. you may have to "endure" some pretty silly girly stuff like a day at the mall but they'll need this (hopefully only once or twice!) if they're going to take you seriously that you will support their planning.

(I now have a group of girls that can't stand to do one more slumber-party style overnight, which is what the other GS in our area are into.)

Your biggest obstacle may be the parents: I've found that many parents of girls don't consider it important to purchase appropriate outdoor gear for thier girls - I constantly describe and model shoes that can climb trees, pants that don't tear, etc. etc. Nor do many of these parents get that their girls would benefit from spending more than one or two nights outdoors in the summer. So work them into expecting at least a daytime outdoor activity every month of the year.

Our troop is very active in our local orienteering club - it's a very good way to get them thinking and working independently of adults, because the goal is really straight-forward.

Camp, camp, camp. Hike, hike, hike. Get to know the natural resources of your community.

We've done buckthorn pulls and built ski trails - and then got to watch my daughter race on the same trail they built Very cool - as much as possible try to bring them "full cycle" with an activity: trying it out, volunteering, stepping up the challenge level.

If you can combine camping with horses you've got a winner.

This spring we are volunteering at a horse rescue that's far enough away that we're making a weekend campout of it. Then this summer we're going to a weekend horsecamp. We'll do some more troop camping on either side of that, and hopefully a big trail ride maybe overnight in the fall.

Next year we'll work up to backpacking - I need to find a trail that doesn't scare them The consensus right now is that the SHT is too rugged. So still checking out possibilities.

Build fires Cook out. Lots.

Help them learn to swim - I don't know how it happened, but there are more and more girls now who do not know how to swim. At all. Gotta fix that, otherwise they'll be cut off from safely participating in sailing, kayaking, canoeing... they need exposure to all of this. They need to know it's in the realm of what girls can do.

http://www.freewebs.com/gstroop1021/ is our new troop website - we're not getting much traffic to it yet - I'd appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Blue skies!

Anne in Mpls

Juliette Low - founder of GSUSA - was also a close friend of Kipling's - it's rumored they would leave boring dinner parties in their finery to go fishing!

Where's your PLC at on this?

Woohoo! local girl makes good!

As soon as I heard this story on the evening news I *knew* she must have been a Scout )

I want to get in touch with her and have her visit our troop!

Anne in Mpls