goodkidsmom

Yes, Boleta, I agree. Whether he stays with the existing troop or not, and whether SM backs down or not, with the various District and Council people I've contacted, plus the letter I'll write, SM is likely to get a clarification of the rules/policies. (I'd like to say that he WILL HAVE TO follow them, but I guess I'd better not be that definite.) This morning we talked about running from the problem vs holding firm and fighting it - he said he wants to fight, emphasis on the word "fight". He's certainly being assertive now! Interestingly, my son says he really likes his troop a

FScouter, ScoutingAgain, EagleinKy, Boleta, Scoutnut, Caveagle, and ScoutlDr - As always, thanks for the responses - Wow!. I appreciate the translation of the "alphabet soup" titles. I've had long phone talks with people from the District and Council, one of whom called CC (also DAC) but didn't get him and left msg. We've also been talking to people from other troops. My husband talked to ASM who is coordinating summer camp and said they are likely not going. This ASM also participated with SM in the SM Conference in question; he said he thought it was ok to hold up a boy they

Evmori - it says "take part in". And Yes, that's exactly what's happened. Plus, when the boy DID show the assertiveness of calling him, the SM further rejected him. Scoutldr - You're right, it's "On". What do IH and SE stand for? Your advice about the letter - and what to leave out - is good. Everyone - What now? Should he go to summer camp? Should he even try to complete the BOR with this group? Is running away from camp and from this troop a mistake? If he goes to another troop, does he have to start over with any of the requirements - e.g."Be active in YOUR troop..." - i

Eamonn - thanks for your post. I agree with you that about roots, wings, and "I". He does all of the "I" parts of the Oath and Law himself. The lack of assertiveness regards dealing with problems, but I think that tonight he gets an A++ in assertiveness. Standing up to an adult who is in the wrong is beyond a lot of people, including adults, and since my son did it by himself I'm very proud of him. Yes, I'm afraid we will have to change troops. Bob White - I think we'll do a combination of both. We'll talk to the Council tomorrow - the people I spoke to Tuesday had already offere

This is related to the discussion a few back about the SM trying to change my son's personality, by requiring my son to be more "assertive" before he would sign off that the SM Conference took place. I'm hoping to get some more feedback from a new thread rather than adding to that long one. The situation has just gotten far far worse. For those new, the summary: My son has held his SM Conference for Life, and the SM refused to sign off b/c he says my son needs to be more assertive and participate more. The boy was already signed off on Scout Spirit (by the SM) and Participation (b

Hi Laurie, thanks for the thoughts. It looks like you've been doing a great job trying to get your son to speak up. It's too bad he was (is?) having a tough time with the SM. Due, I think, to his depression my son really doesn't care - he'd just as soon crawl in a hole or lie on his bed staring at the ceiling (obviously we're getting him help for that). It's critical to keep him active and involved, hence Scouts and Karate. If we didn't also participate in activities with him and, when necessary, speak up for him, he'd likely drop out. The idea of having him write a note is a g

Sorry, I guess right wasn't the right word. It did sound a bit too - hmmm, formal? legalistic? I certainly didn't mean to offend. Let's see - Ought he? Is it appropriate? within his purview? Not sure what the right word is, but I'm sure you know what I mean. GKMom

My son WAS signed off by one of the adult ASMs for "Scout Spirit" as well as for "participate actively". (the same ASM who also did his SM Conference that the CC later would not accept and made him repeat with the SM ) So as far as we're concerned, he has completed ALL requirements except for the BOR. Now, beyond my son's issue, where does the SM have leeway to deal with kids who misbehave, aren't ready to move on, etc? Clearly "Scout Spirit" and "Participate Actively". Certainly a scout who misbehaves, is slovenly, unfriendly, rude, etc could be dealt with in Scout Sprit. I wond

I had an interesting talk with my son about the content of the SM conference. 1) SM did it WITH an ASM - why, to have back-up for a pre-planned "fail"? Or, maybe it was to make my son feel more comfortable b/c there HAS been some awkwardness with the SM? But maybe what looked like a two-against-one situation was uncomfortable? 2) They talked about the usual - what he's done, what he likes/dislikes, goals, strengths and weaknesses. When asked about weaknesses my son said "not participating in the games during the meetings and I need to be more assertive and speak up more". SM

Yup, I agree again. But we wouldn't be here if he spoke up. He just plain won't. Personality, depression, not challenging an authority figure, whatever - he won't. Trying to get him to deal with this one himself would a) result in major family fights b) him going to his room crying and getting more depressed and c) possibly dropping out of Scouts. Challenging an authority figure with whom he's had an uncomfortable experience (to say the least) is way beyond him at this point. Mom and Dad will deal with this one because it seems to be a pretty serious instance of a SM stepping out

I agree completely. The committee wanted to avoid having scouts with behavior problems sliding through by getting a young ASM to sign off. The committee thus decided that only the SM could do the SM Conference for the higher ranks so boys couldn't slip through the cracks. This was well-intentioned, but incorrectly thought out. Clearly the committee should have said that only the SM (or perhaps specific adult ASMs) can sign off for "Scout Spirit" and "participate actively" as well as the SM Conference. That would take care of not letting behavior problems slip through b/c the

Uncleguinea, you do not offend me, and you are absolutely correct. I agree with you 100%. He does NOT speak up, and we DO come to his rescue. We want him to speak up for himself. He will have to start sticking up for himself more as he matures. Teaching Karate, Managing Stage Crew, etc., as well as Mom and Dad backing off (which I HAVE been doing more and more), will (we hope) help with this. However (yup, I get a however too!) the immediate reason for my posts is whether or not SM can refuse to sign off on the SM Conference because of assertiveness or the lack thereof, i.e. whet

Good advice, Bob - thanks. Note that CC and District Advancement Chair are the same person, so he SHOULD know that "assertiveness" is not part of the Oath or Law and that it can't be added at whim. When my husband talks to him tomorrow, if he senses that he is sticking with the "assertiveness" bit, we will go higher. My son does know that this is not a requirement - it's a shame that an authority figure whom he should respect is holding him back on something that's not even legit - but your post points out that we should arm him with a polite response. I think we'll suggest that if t

Wow, I never expected so much help - what great group you are! Scoutingagain - no need to apologize; I didn't realize just how active he was until I added up all the campouts etc. My guess is that more assertive means speaking up more (he is VERY quiet). He does not make his wishes or complaints known. He comes home and tells us whatever was bugging him (i.e. troop bully) and then we come to the rescue. Sticking up for himself on this issue would certainly count, but at this point his personality just isn't like that. As he matures that may change, or maybe it won't. Maybe if ass

Wow, what well thought out replies! I'll try to address them all here: Hunt - in the last year he has gone on NINE weekend or overnight campouts in addition to week-long summer camp. He opted out of ice camping and a Klondike, but the ones he went on included skiing, a historical trail, a mini-camporee, and 2 OA ordeal weekends (one for his ordeal, one as Elongamat). He takes Karate classes and is great at self-defense and helping the younger kids' classes, but the instructors would like him to hit harder..... Two weeks ago we did a short Appalachian Trail hike as a family outing

thanks for the suggestion. It's a good one, especially in terms of opening SM's eyes to a variety of kids. SM does need to realize that every boy has different interests and strengths - shouldn't that be obvious? I don't think I'll do it, though, b/c I don't want to harp on the depression aspect - regardless of the depression, the problem here is that SM is playing by his own rules, and that's what my husband and I are going to work on. Thanks!

Thanks, Mike F. I don't think his depression to the point to be a special need - but certainly some empathy would be appropriate. I've talked to and emailed SM quite a few times re the depression etc. He seems supportive, but then continues to push for the assertiveness so he's clearly missing the point that trying to make the kid into something he's not is backfiring. Example: My son was planning to go on a weekend campout last winter but on the way broke down crying and was such a wreck he couldn't go - we told SM at the time that he was ill. Later SM commented that the boy didn't

Thanks for the quick reply, FScouter. We will do what you suggest. This SM does sometimes insist on his own interpretations of requirements, as opposed to accepting what is stated in the handbook. We have brought some - not all - of these up with the SM over the years, and I'm sure he doesn't like us being critical of his way of doing things. Nobody can fault this SM on his enthusiasm - he really wants all the kids to participate and have fun - but not everyone has fun the same way. I didn't mention it in my l-o-n-g message above (sorry!), but in my response to the bully posts

My son is very quiet and not interested in sports or physical activities. He's an honor student, audio-visual aide and stage crew manager at school, and does a lot of service / volunteer activities. He has held positions like Librarian or Scribe and taken them seriously, organizing books and files, creating activity and attendance charts on the computer, and so forth. He does not like to take part in active games like kickball, brawl-ball, etc. The SM is quite different - a very gung-ho kidding-around type of man. He often tells my son that he has to participate more and be more ass

These are interesting posts. We have a boy who is always getting in trouble, mostly just bugging people, goofing off, not paying attention, leaving the meeting, but he also bullies some kids, including my son, in and out of scouts. My son is quiet and well behaved and has never been in trouble in or out of scouts (and this isn't just Mom talking, his teachers and other adults all agree). My son and husband and I have complained and documented the problems with the bully numerous times. The asst SMs have all agreed that he is a real problem. The SM threatened to kick him out several tim